296 réponses à ce sujet

[Redbelle]

laecraft wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Fun as they are, games like Super Mario will never say anything profound about anything.

I present you: Mario vs Shepard in terms of story.

Why Mario qualifies: the game has a plot, namely "Mario overcomes enemy after enemy and finally faces a deadly dragon in a decisive battle in order to save the Princess".

When you have a PC with a compelling desire to overcome all his increasingly difficult obstacles in order to achieve
his final goal, you have a foundation of a story.

If you take out the story, there will be nothing but level after level. The concept of a final boss is a story concept.

Mario: faces final boss.

Shepard: doesn't face a final boss (too video gamey).

Mario: Shepard (1:0)

Mario: stays true to his goals (saves the princess, rather than feeding her to the dragon for the good of humankind) in all endings.

Shepard: turns on their goals for no priory foreshadowed reason in three endings out of four.

Mario: Shepard (2:0)

Mario: achieves his final goal due to his superior skill of jumping, running, firing, and persistent skill of defying death level after level.

Shepard: achieves their final goal due to either all previous species defeating the Reapers by suddenly dropping a mysterious device on Shepard's lap (in original endings) or the future species defeating the Reapers (in Refuse ending).

Mario: Shepard (3:0)

The score isn't looking so good, how about the message the games are sending...

Mario: Teaches us that persistance, skill, courage, and staying true to yourself will get you your true love.

Shepard: Teaches us futility and randomness of the universe.

<wails> It's true! It's true!

Video games are, after all, a rule set to be learnt, applied, and prefected to varying degree's of competance (depending on the......... bossness?...... Bossness of the enemy).

And while Mario may not compare well to Shepard on account that he is an overweight plumber from Brookland with an Italian accent who could not hope to finish Shepard in a battle........ Because Shepard has guns and kinetic barriers. It has to be pointed out that the only place these two could ever do battle, is in Super Smash Brothers............ a video game. Where Mario would be given an equal footing to the Shep! Because it's a video game and therefore would have to be balanced so Shep is not IMBA.

Games have great potential in this modern age to bring cinematic narrative to a game. but if Mario, or Tetris, or Pac-Man are considered gaming classics due to the success of their gameplay, does that not indicate that solid gameplay mechanics are important too?

I'm all for reinventing the wheel of gameplay on the hop. MGS3's The Sorrow section where he threw all the people you killed before that point was gameplay unlike anything played to that point. And raised questions as to 'does killing the enemy benefit you the player'? in a game that first introduced the concept of completing the game using non lethal takedowns in MGS2..... (Or maybe the original Deus Ex).

But once past that section it was back to business as normal.

Changing gameplay on the fly ought to be a cookie treat to nibble on. Not a millstone around the neck.

Modifié par Redbelle, 08 juillet 2013 - 07:02 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

EntropicAngel wrote...

iakus wrote...

Not really.

The one time I tried playing after EC and before MEHEM, I literally could not get into the game. Everything felt like an exercise in futility. Shepard's fate was predestined. I ended up turning off the game at Rannoch, I simply could not be bothered to go on.

That's crazy, iakus. Do you only play non-RPGs a single time? What are you playing for, if not for the story, the journey, the experience?

im almost certain he plays only RPG's.

[Iakus]

EntropicAngel wrote...

iakus wrote...

Not really.

The one time I tried playing after EC and before MEHEM, I literally could not get into the game. Everything felt like an exercise in futility. Shepard's fate was predestined. I ended up turning off the game at Rannoch, I simply could not be bothered to go on.

That's crazy, iakus. Do you only play non-RPGs a single time? What are you playing for, if not for the story, the journey, the experience?

I play for the story, the jouney, the experience that I find enjoyalbe.  Rpgs let me shape the story to a certain extent.  I can define who my character is.  It allows me to invest myself in teh story and characters more when I can put a bit of myself into it.

In ME3, my Shepard can't beat the Reapers without becoming, to me a monster.  Despite everything I do throughout the trilogy.  No matter who I save or don't.  No matter what I say, how I play,  Ti didn't matter one bit.   My Shepard became Bioware's Shepard:  What's the point of continuing at that point?  ALl I'm doing is marking time and pwning space zombies.

As to non-rpgs, I admit I play very few (and those are genreally rts) I've tried playing games like ALan Wake and Assassin's Creed.  But I quickly become bored when the only options I'm given is "which weapon do you want to use?"

But games like Alpha Protocol, Dragon Age: Origins, even the good old Baldur's Gate series, I can play over and over again, finding new stuff each time.

[Iakus]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Well...alright. I would argue that that's letting the ending unnecessarily spoil something that isn't bad, but whatev.

You may think it isn't that bad, but I do.  And many others do as well.

[Seival]

pirate1802 wrote...

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I find the stories of linear games much more immersive than the RPGs. Like Ellie, Joel or Lara Croft.. I felt much more immersed in their linear and scripted stories than in my Shepard, even back in ME1. I have no idea why, but that being said, I don't want Mass Effect to become like them. Linear games should remain linear games and RPGs should remain such. I love both the genres and wouldn't like them to take on each other's characteristics.

Well, I'm sure BioWare are capable of producing both RPGs and non-RPGs. They have several departments, and can produce two or three games at the same time. Not all of them have to be RPGs. Some could be RPGs, some could be linear but extremely immersive games.

I strongly believe that expanding huge RPGs like Mass Effect with several non-RPG games sounds like the perfect way for prolonging the IP's life span... If these non-RPGs will be as awesome as TLoU of course.

[Seival]

LineHolder wrote...

I respect Naughty Dog because of Uncharted but I dont think survival in a zombie apocalypse with boring gameplay should be a template for anything.

TLoU gameplay isn't boring. Moreover, it is one of things that make the game so immersive and interesting. Such thought-out gameplay and survival theme can be applied to ME3 events just perfectly.

Just imagine. Earth. A couple of civilian survivors are trying to reach human military forces to join them. On their way they face a lot of obstacles. Some people join them. Some people die. Some people survive and keep going. Survivors have no armor or shields. They have no combat implants. They have no combat skills. Finding a gun and thermal clips is a great luck that won't last forever. Even small groups of Reaper forces and single husks are very dangerous for a bunch of civilians, and direct attacks against the Reapers are death sentence in most cases.

Earth, Omega, Citadel, some remote colony - anything of this during the Reaper invasion can be used for creating truly immersive atmosphere. It could be even a series of games about survivors in all mentioned places.

[Redbelle]

What I like about TLoU is that it keeps throwing curve balls at you.

Being caught in a snare trap, and having to defend yourself and Ellie from attacks while she tries to cut you down was unexpected. But key, it took your expectation's of wandering around till you found a progression point and turned them on there head........

Literally.

Suddenly, you did not have freedom of movement, or access to your usual aresnal. The rules of the game changed and you had to adapt or die........ and die...... and then 3 more times....... Till you got what the new rule set was and cained the zombie hordes.

Challenging. And through being challenged and learning how to overcome this hurdle......... fun.

ME3, rarely ever threw a gameplay curveball at you. All it's curveballs were in the narrative outside the power of influence of the dialogue wheel.

Modifié par Redbelle, 08 juillet 2013 - 09:37 .

[Seival]

iakus wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

iakus wrote...

Not really.

The one time I tried playing after EC and before MEHEM, I literally could not get into the game. Everything felt like an exercise in futility. Shepard's fate was predestined. I ended up turning off the game at Rannoch, I simply could not be bothered to go on.

That's crazy, iakus. Do you only play non-RPGs a single time? What are you playing for, if not for the story, the journey, the experience?

I play for the story, the jouney, the experience that I find enjoyalbe.  Rpgs let me shape the story to a certain extent.  I can define who my character is.  It allows me to invest myself in teh story and characters more when I can put a bit of myself into it.

In ME3, my Shepard can't beat the Reapers without becoming, to me a monster.  Despite everything I do throughout the trilogy.  No matter who I save or don't.  No matter what I say, how I play,  Ti didn't matter one bit.   My Shepard became Bioware's Shepard:  What's the point of continuing at that point?  ALl I'm doing is marking time and pwning space zombies.

As to non-rpgs, I admit I play very few (and those are genreally rts) I've tried playing games like ALan Wake and Assassin's Creed.  But I quickly become bored when the only options I'm given is "which weapon do you want to use?"

But games like Alpha Protocol, Dragon Age: Origins, even the good old Baldur's Gate series, I can play over and over again, finding new stuff each time.

Well, I'm also an RPG fan, and play games of other genres very occasionally. Moreover, I dislike post-apocalyptic themes and zombie themes very much... But sometimes someone makes such themes so thought-out that I put my preferences aside.

TLoU is post-apocalyptic, but somehow it doesn't cause rejection. It has zombie analogy, but they are not zombies. The Infected have realistic scientific explanation. So realistic that at some point I started to think that such infection might happen in reality in some specific conditions.

And ME3 have everything to make similarly thought-out survival setting. Just replace different types of Infected by different types of Indoctrinated and Harvested, replace Spores with Reaper indoctrination boosters and dragon teeth, and you will get the great basis for creating immersive hostile environment.

Modifié par Seival, 08 juillet 2013 - 09:49 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

 They're called "The Infected" not "The infested"

[Ryzaki]

WittingEight65 wrote...

Oh my friend, with that last post, you just killed your thread. Prepare for "the ending sucks" replays.

Heh I found both endings TLOU and ME3 endings meh.

Well in the way they made me wanna punch the protagonist into a black hole.

[crimzontearz]

Seival wrote...

iakus wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

iakus wrote...

Not really.

The one time I tried playing after EC and before MEHEM, I literally could not get into the game. Everything felt like an exercise in futility. Shepard's fate was predestined. I ended up turning off the game at Rannoch, I simply could not be bothered to go on.

That's crazy, iakus. Do you only play non-RPGs a single time? What are you playing for, if not for the story, the journey, the experience?

I play for the story, the jouney, the experience that I find enjoyalbe.  Rpgs let me shape the story to a certain extent.  I can define who my character is.  It allows me to invest myself in teh story and characters more when I can put a bit of myself into it.

In ME3, my Shepard can't beat the Reapers without becoming, to me a monster.  Despite everything I do throughout the trilogy.  No matter who I save or don't.  No matter what I say, how I play,  Ti didn't matter one bit.   My Shepard became Bioware's Shepard:  What's the point of continuing at that point?  ALl I'm doing is marking time and pwning space zombies.

As to non-rpgs, I admit I play very few (and those are genreally rts) I've tried playing games like ALan Wake and Assassin's Creed.  But I quickly become bored when the only options I'm given is "which weapon do you want to use?"

But games like Alpha Protocol, Dragon Age: Origins, even the good old Baldur's Gate series, I can play over and over again, finding new stuff each time.

Well, I'm also an RPG fan, and play games of other genres very occasionally. Moreover, I dislike post-apocalyptic themes and zombie themes very much... But sometimes someone makes such themes so thought-out that I put my preferences aside.

TLoU is post-apocalyptic, but somehow it doesn't cause rejection. It has zombie analogy, but they are not zombies. The Infested have realistic scientific explanation. So realistic that at some point I started to think that such infestation might happen in reality in some specific conditions.

And ME3 have everything to make similarly thought-out survival setting. Just replace different types of Infested by different types of Indoctrinated and Harvested, replace Spores with Reaper indoctrination boosters and dragon teeth, and you will get the great basis for creating immersive hostile environment.

uh.....the unilateralis fungus is just as likely a cause of "zombies" as the rabies mutation presented in many other fictions TYVM

[Seival]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

They're called "The Infected" not "The infested"

Well, English is not my main language, so such mistakes are possible

[Arcian]

Seival wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

They're called "The Infected" not "The infested"

Well, English is not my main language, so such mistakes are possible

Is english even taught in russian schools?

[Seival]

crimzontearz wrote...

uh.....the unilateralis fungus is just as likely a cause of "zombies" as the rabies mutation presented in many other fictions TYVM

The Infected are the humans contaminated by the fungus known as Cordyceps. Humans are able to inhale the fungus, and will eventually die from it. Once the fungus has infected a person, it will then mutate through their head and will take control of their body in two or less days.

There is a real fungus called Cordyceps that can infect insects , killing them and then growing out of their dead carcass, eventually releasing spores to infect other insects. One of Naughty Dog's teasers was a clip from BBC's Planet Earth showing this happening to an ant. Although the clip features ants, the fungus can infect other insects as well.

According to Game Informer (Issue 227, 2012 March), the fungus is spread throughout the air and is very contagious. However, the fungus cannot successfully infect a human in a wide open space, it needs a confined room to effectively spread within the human body.

Also, I heard that the fungus becomes more effective as population of its positional victims grows larger... Considering human overpopulation... Well... I have to admit that sounds creepy. No other zombies have such a realistic description.

As for ME3 survival setting, I think it's obvious that it has great potential. It can be even more creepy and thought-out than TLoU variant. Not realistic, but still very immersing. Much more immersing than any regular zombie setting.

[cydoniawarrior]

Power45 wrote...

Personally I think the main series should stick with the action RPG setup. That being said it would be exciting if other companies decided to experiment with side games within the ME universe. Imagine if say visceral made a dead space style game were you fight all sorts of crazy reaper creatures or telltale made a walking dead style story focused spinoff.

Don't worry, it's going to. This is a tweet from Yannick Roy "That, I can answer right away: it will be the same type of game as the first three."

Modifié par cydoniawarrior, 08 juillet 2013 - 10:26 .

[Iakus]

That "three" bit is not encouraging

[crimzontearz]

Seival wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

uh.....the unilateralis fungus is just as likely a cause of "zombies" as the rabies mutation presented in many other fictions TYVM

The Infected are the humans contaminated by the fungus known as Cordyceps. Humans are able to inhale the fungus, and will eventually die from it. Once the fungus has infected a person, it will then mutate through their head and will take control of their body in two or less days.

There is a real fungus called Cordyceps that can infect insects , killing them and then growing out of their dead carcass, eventually releasing spores to infect other insects. One of Naughty Dog's teasers was a clip from BBC's Planet Earth showing this happening to an ant. Although the clip features ants, the fungus can infect other insects as well.

According to Game Informer (Issue 227, 2012 March), the fungus is spread throughout the air and is very contagious. However, the fungus cannot successfully infect a human in a wide open space, it needs a confined room to effectively spread within the human body.

Also, I heard that the fungus becomes more effective as population of its positional victims grows larger... Considering human overpopulation... Well... I have to admit that sounds creepy. No other zombies have such a realistic description.

As for ME3 survival setting, I think it's obvious that it has great potential. It can be even more creepy and thought-out than TLoU variant. Not realistic, but still very immersing. Much more immersing than any regular zombie setting.

this is the exact fungus you are looking for

O. unilateralis

I made a thread about it last year about how it resembled the Thorian

notice the fungus IS able to affect insect behaviour but it has not crossed the species barrier

now read up on rabies and how it could mutate to make actual zombies....and it already affects humans.....your point is?

[Sumthing]

laecraft wrote...

The score isn't looking so good, how about the message the games are sending...

Mario: Teaches us that persistance, skill, courage, and staying true to yourself will get you your true love.

Shepard: Teaches us futility and randomness of the universe.

Persistance, Skill, Courage, and staying true to yourself won't always get you your true love in the real world.

The universe is random. Bad things happen to good people for no apparent reason in the world, good things happen to bad people for no apparent reason, people get tricked into doing stupid things. No good lying to people about things when you can just tell them the truth.

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

Sumthing wrote...

laecraft wrote...

The score isn't looking so good, how about the message the games are sending...

Mario: Teaches us that persistance, skill, courage, and staying true to yourself will get you your true love.

Shepard: Teaches us futility and randomness of the universe.

Persistance, Skill, Courage, and staying true to yourself won't always get you your true love in the real world.

The universe is random. Bad things happen to good people for no apparent reason in the world, good things happen to bad people for no apparent reason, people get tricked into doing stupid things. No good lying to people about things when you can just tell them the truth.

Mario games are cheesy, no one should take its story seriously

[Seival]

crimzontearz wrote...

Seival wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

uh.....the unilateralis fungus is just as likely a cause of "zombies" as the rabies mutation presented in many other fictions TYVM

The Infected are the humans contaminated by the fungus known as Cordyceps. Humans are able to inhale the fungus, and will eventually die from it. Once the fungus has infected a person, it will then mutate through their head and will take control of their body in two or less days.

There is a real fungus called Cordyceps that can infect insects , killing them and then growing out of their dead carcass, eventually releasing spores to infect other insects. One of Naughty Dog's teasers was a clip from BBC's Planet Earth showing this happening to an ant. Although the clip features ants, the fungus can infect other insects as well.

According to Game Informer (Issue 227, 2012 March), the fungus is spread throughout the air and is very contagious. However, the fungus cannot successfully infect a human in a wide open space, it needs a confined room to effectively spread within the human body.

Also, I heard that the fungus becomes more effective as population of its positional victims grows larger... Considering human overpopulation... Well... I have to admit that sounds creepy. No other zombies have such a realistic description.

As for ME3 survival setting, I think it's obvious that it has great potential. It can be even more creepy and thought-out than TLoU variant. Not realistic, but still very immersing. Much more immersing than any regular zombie setting.

this is the exact fungus you are looking for

O. unilateralis

I made a thread about it last year about how it resembled the Thorian

notice the fungus IS able to affect insect behaviour but it has not crossed the species barrier

now read up on rabies and how it could mutate to make actual zombies....and it already affects humans.....your point is?

My point is that carefully thought-out setting can attract even people who don't like such settings in general. For example, I don't like "zombie" settings in general, but I just love TLoU game.

Imagine what kind of potential has ME3-based "zombie" setting (with indoctrinated and husks as "zombies"). With best immersion level possible and good attention to details such setting can become a perfect ground for masterpiece videogame story. Don't you think so?

Such way of expanding ME3 story can even address some complaints about low level of story detail in ME3.

Modifié par Seival, 09 juillet 2013 - 08:29 .

[ShepnTali]

cydoniawarrior wrote...

Power45 wrote...

Personally I think the main series should stick with the action RPG setup. That being said it would be exciting if other companies decided to experiment with side games within the ME universe. Imagine if say visceral made a dead space style game were you fight all sorts of crazy reaper creatures or telltale made a walking dead style story focused spinoff.

Don't worry, it's going to. This is a tweet from Yannick Roy "That, I can answer right away: it will be the same type of game as the first three."

Well, I'm happy to hear this. I love the basic gameplay foundation.