296 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Seival wrote...

Yes, we all know that in ME Trilogy all ways lead to one of the ways to stop the Reapers. Just like we know that in TLoU the humanity will find a way to survive, or die trying. But this doesn't render Joel and Ellie story useless. The story is small compared to Mass Effect, but still larger than all three parts of ME combined. Such a paradox exists only because of incredible level of immersion TLoU provides, and the important questions the story raises... It's really hard to describe. You have to play the game to know what I'm talking about...

Believe me, you would most likely trade all possible sequels for just one TLoU-like ME game.

ME's selling point was that it was a "choice" (using the word hesitatingly).  Choice and linear don't go well together.  To make a more The Last of Us experience, BioWare would have to abandon this.  At that point, what's the point of playing a ME version of the same story?

However,

Making this much smaller story would be a good call IMO, but it needs to be set after the ending.  Otherwise we know what happens in the end, regardless of what happens in the game.  Nothing the protagonist of such a game could ever do will impact the end result.

[Steelcan]

iakus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Looks like what you really want is to LARP, instead of actually playing a video-game.

If you want to LARP, that's fine, but video-game RPGs are not the best medium for that, try pens-n-paper RPGs instead.

Video-games are all about "the shooty parts". If you don't like that, than I have to wonder why you play video-games in the first place. Again, you'd be better off playing a PnP RPG with a bunch of friends.

No, I don't want a LARP, I want an RPG.  Like what Bioware used to make and were pretty good at..

I don't mind shooting mechanics, but I don't believe a game should revolve entirely around it.  Dialogue, decison making, and player agency are all important as well.  Bioware used to push the envelope on these things, make thier universes and characters feel more alive than pretty much anything on the market.  Their games are more than killing people and taking their stuff.   Lately, though they seem to have given up and let the guns do the talking for them.  Like they're ashamed of being considered a developer of role playing games.

The market's already glutted with shooters.  If Bioware goes this route they'll be swallowed up and never make a sound.

EA wants money, shooters make more money, there solved it for you.  Find a way to make an RPG like ME as popular as Halo and then BioWare will do what you said you wanted.

[Seival]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...

Yes, we all know that in ME Trilogy all ways lead to one of the ways to stop the Reapers. Just like we know that in TLoU the humanity will find a way to survive, or die trying. But this doesn't render Joel and Ellie story useless. The story is small compared to Mass Effect, but still larger than all three parts of ME combined. Such a paradox exists only because of incredible level of immersion TLoU provides, and the important questions the story raises... It's really hard to describe. You have to play the game to know what I'm talking about...

Believe me, you would most likely trade all possible sequels for just one TLoU-like ME game.

How can you even compare The Last of Us to Mass Effect? They really have absolutely nothing in common.

They are both stories that are worth reading.
They both have bittersweet ending that forces you to cry, and more importantly - to think.

[ShepnTali]

The western RPG genre is pretty pitiful, especially when discounting sword and dragon titles.

[Nole]

Oh my friend, with that last post, you just killed your thread. Prepare for "the ending sucks" replays.

[Iakus]

[quote]Steelcan wrote...

[/quote]EA wants money, shooters make more money, there solved it for you.  Find a way to make an RPG like ME as popular as Halo and then BioWare will do what you said you wanted.
[/quote]

And this is why I'm backing projects like Project Eternity and Tides of Numenera rather than giving companies like that more mony.

[Steelcan]

Seival wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...

Yes, we all know that in ME Trilogy all ways lead to one of the ways to stop the Reapers. Just like we know that in TLoU the humanity will find a way to survive, or die trying. But this doesn't render Joel and Ellie story useless. The story is small compared to Mass Effect, but still larger than all three parts of ME combined. Such a paradox exists only because of incredible level of immersion TLoU provides, and the important questions the story raises... It's really hard to describe. You have to play the game to know what I'm talking about...

Believe me, you would most likely trade all possible sequels for just one TLoU-like ME game.

How can you even compare The Last of Us to Mass Effect? They really have absolutely nothing in common.

They are both stories that are worth reading.
They both have bittersweet ending that forces you to cry, and more importantly - to think.

  My ending wasn't bitter at all.  The Reaper blew up along with their delusional leader, the relays were only damaged, everybody except the sexbot survived (actually a plus in my book), Shepard is shown surviving (half-assedly admittedly).  Where's the bitter?

[crimzontearz]

Seival wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...

Yes, we all know that in ME Trilogy all ways lead to one of the ways to stop the Reapers. Just like we know that in TLoU the humanity will find a way to survive, or die trying. But this doesn't render Joel and Ellie story useless. The story is small compared to Mass Effect, but still larger than all three parts of ME combined. Such a paradox exists only because of incredible level of immersion TLoU provides, and the important questions the story raises... It's really hard to describe. You have to play the game to know what I'm talking about...

Believe me, you would most likely trade all possible sequels for just one TLoU-like ME game.

How can you even compare The Last of Us to Mass Effect? They really have absolutely nothing in common.

They are both stories that are worth reading.
They both have bittersweet ending that forces you to cry, and more importantly - to think.

uhhhh....no, TLoU's ending is not bittersweet

[The Heretic of Time]

iakus wrote...

I don't mind shooting mechanics, but I don't believe a game should revolve entirely around it.

Sure, but the actual core-gameplay (in this case the shooting parts), should always be the foundation of a video-game.

Gameplay is (almost) always be the foundation of any video-game. It makes sense, because that's what sets games appart from movies and books. Not the story, not the characters, not the cutscenes, and not the RPing either, but the gameplay, that's what a game should be all about. Everything else is just extra, fluff, window-dressing, stuff that gives emotional value and a deeper meaning to the gameplay.

 Dialogue, decison making, and player agency are all important as well. Bioware used to push the envelope on these things, make thier universes and characters feel more alive than pretty much anything on the market.

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. I have played games, both RPG and non-RPG, both linear and non-linear, which had better universes, better characters and felt more alive than anything BioWare has ever created.

[The Heretic of Time]

Seival wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...

Yes, we all know that in ME Trilogy all ways lead to one of the ways to stop the Reapers. Just like we know that in TLoU the humanity will find a way to survive, or die trying. But this doesn't render Joel and Ellie story useless. The story is small compared to Mass Effect, but still larger than all three parts of ME combined. Such a paradox exists only because of incredible level of immersion TLoU provides, and the important questions the story raises... It's really hard to describe. You have to play the game to know what I'm talking about...

Believe me, you would most likely trade all possible sequels for just one TLoU-like ME game.

How can you even compare The Last of Us to Mass Effect? They really have absolutely nothing in common.

They are both stories that are worth reading.

Wha? 

Last time I checked both Mass Effect and The Last of Us are video-games that you play (one of which is worth playing and the other one isn't).

[The Heretic of Time]

crimzontearz wrote...

Seival wrote...

They both have bittersweet ending that forces you to cry, and more importantly - to think.

uhhhh....no, TLoU's ending is not bittersweet

And neither is ME3's ending.

[AresKeith]

Seival wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...

Yes, we all know that in ME Trilogy all ways lead to one of the ways to stop the Reapers. Just like we know that in TLoU the humanity will find a way to survive, or die trying. But this doesn't render Joel and Ellie story useless. The story is small compared to Mass Effect, but still larger than all three parts of ME combined. Such a paradox exists only because of incredible level of immersion TLoU provides, and the important questions the story raises... It's really hard to describe. You have to play the game to know what I'm talking about...

Believe me, you would most likely trade all possible sequels for just one TLoU-like ME game.

How can you even compare The Last of Us to Mass Effect? They really have absolutely nothing in common.

They are both stories that are worth reading.
They both have bittersweet ending that forces you to cry, and more importantly - to think.

TLOU ending was not bittersweet, I rather enjoyed it

[crimzontearz]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Seival wrote...

They both have bittersweet ending that forces you to cry, and more importantly - to think.

uhhhh....no, TLoU's ending is not bittersweet

And neither is ME3's ending.

no, ME3's ending is merely aggravating in its refusal to be clear about certain details

[The Heretic of Time]

crimzontearz wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Seival wrote...

They both have bittersweet ending that forces you to cry, and more importantly - to think.

uhhhh....no, TLoU's ending is not bittersweet

And neither is ME3's ending.

no, ME3's ending is merely aggravating in its refusal to be clear about certain details

It's aso aggravating because it's stupid, non-sensical, inconsistent, self-contradicting and just plain bad writing (just like the rest of ME3 I might add).

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 07 juillet 2013 - 11:02 .

[Steelcan]

crimzontearz wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Seival wrote...

They both have bittersweet ending that forces you to cry, and more importantly - to think.

uhhhh....no, TLoU's ending is not bittersweet

And neither is ME3's ending.

no, ME3's ending is merely aggravating in its refusal to be clear about certain details

The lack of character closure and lore inconsistency are not why the endings are terrible.  I'm tired of people whining that these make the ending terrible, they barely factor in really. 

[crimzontearz]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Seival wrote...

They both have bittersweet ending that forces you to cry, and more importantly - to think.

uhhhh....no, TLoU's ending is not bittersweet

And neither is ME3's ending.

no, ME3's ending is merely aggravating in its refusal to be clear about certain details

It's aso aggravating because it's stupid, non-sensical, inconsistent, self-contradicting and just plain bad writing (just like the rest of ME3 I might add).

that too

man I hope EA forces them to do a sequel....I will laugh so hard

[crimzontearz]

Steelcan wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Seival wrote...

They both have bittersweet ending that forces you to cry, and more importantly - to think.

uhhhh....no, TLoU's ending is not bittersweet

And neither is ME3's ending.

no, ME3's ending is merely aggravating in its refusal to be clear about certain details

The lack of character closure and lore inconsistency are not why the endings are terrible.  I'm tired of people whining that these make the ending terrible, they barely factor in really. 

but I would have forgiven all of the other issues for a simple full reunion scene

[Steelcan]

crimzontearz wrote...

but I would have forgiven all of the other issues for a simple full reunion scene

I wouldn't.  The reason the endings are objectively bad has nothing to do with a lack of closure.  Throwing in a reunion scene would just be making you feel better while the real issues remain.

[Seival]

Steelcan wrote...

Seival wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...

Yes, we all know that in ME Trilogy all ways lead to one of the ways to stop the Reapers. Just like we know that in TLoU the humanity will find a way to survive, or die trying. But this doesn't render Joel and Ellie story useless. The story is small compared to Mass Effect, but still larger than all three parts of ME combined. Such a paradox exists only because of incredible level of immersion TLoU provides, and the important questions the story raises... It's really hard to describe. You have to play the game to know what I'm talking about...

Believe me, you would most likely trade all possible sequels for just one TLoU-like ME game.

How can you even compare The Last of Us to Mass Effect? They really have absolutely nothing in common.

They are both stories that are worth reading.
They both have bittersweet ending that forces you to cry, and more importantly - to think.

  My ending wasn't bitter at all.  The Reaper blew up along with their delusional leader, the relays were only damaged, everybody except the sexbot survived (actually a plus in my book), Shepard is shown surviving (half-assedly admittedly).  Where's the bitter?

After some time of thinking about it you've found your favorite ending. But did you have the same optimistic point of view just after you've seen the ending for the very first time? I don't think so

Just give it a time, and sadness fades. Bittersweet ending forces you to think. Sometimes, it forces you to concentrate on sweet part and put the bitter aside. This is what happened after ME Trilogy ending to me, and most likely happened to you and most players out there no matter which ending did they choose eventually.

In TLoU I passed through the same, but amplified and less depressing. I was stunned. I was sad. I was happy... All at the same time. I started to think, and make the important conclusions based on my own way of thinking... A smaller story provided so much more emotions and thoughts than the large full-scale RPG trilogy. And I'm sure BioWare can make even better story, if they have desire to.

Modifié par Seival, 07 juillet 2013 - 11:13 .

[crimzontearz]

Steelcan wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

but I would have forgiven all of the other issues for a simple full reunion scene

I wouldn't.  The reason the endings are objectively bad has nothing to do with a lack of closure.  Throwing in a reunion scene would just be making you feel better while the real issues remain.

I never disputed that

[Steelcan]

Seival wrote...


After some time of thinking about it you've found your favorite ending. But did you have the same optimistic point of view just after you've seen the ending for the very first time? I don't think so

Just give it a time, and sadness fades. Bittersweet ending forces you to think. Sometimes, it forces you to concentrate on sweet part and put the bitter aside. This is what happened after ME Trilogy ending to me, and most likely happened to you and most players out  there no matter which ending they chose eventually.

In TLoU I passed through the same, but amplified and less depressing. I was stunned. I was sad. I was happy... All at the same time. I started to think, and make the important conclusions based on my own way of thinking... A smaller story provided so much more emotions and thoughts than the large full-scale RPG trilogy. And I'm sure BioWare can make even better story, if they have desire to.

And I agree that BioWare should focus on smaller stories, they just need to be set after the galaxy altering decision.

[crimzontearz]

Seival wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seival wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Seival wrote...

Yes, we all know that in ME Trilogy all ways lead to one of the ways to stop the Reapers. Just like we know that in TLoU the humanity will find a way to survive, or die trying. But this doesn't render Joel and Ellie story useless. The story is small compared to Mass Effect, but still larger than all three parts of ME combined. Such a paradox exists only because of incredible level of immersion TLoU provides, and the important questions the story raises... It's really hard to describe. You have to play the game to know what I'm talking about...

Believe me, you would most likely trade all possible sequels for just one TLoU-like ME game.

How can you even compare The Last of Us to Mass Effect? They really have absolutely nothing in common.

They are both stories that are worth reading.
They both have bittersweet ending that forces you to cry, and more importantly - to think.

  My ending wasn't bitter at all.  The Reaper blew up along with their delusional leader, the relays were only damaged, everybody except the sexbot survived (actually a plus in my book), Shepard is shown surviving (half-assedly admittedly).  Where's the bitter?

After some time of thinking about it you've found your favorite ending. But did you have the same optimistic point of view just after you've seen the ending for the very first time? I don't think so

Just give it a time, and sadness fades. Bittersweet ending forces you to think. Sometimes, it forces you to concentrate on sweet part and put the bitter aside. This is what happened after ME Trilogy ending to me, and most likely happened to you and most players out  there no matter which ending they chose eventually.

In TLoU I passed through the same, but amplified and less depressing. I was stunned. I was sad. I was happy... All at the same time. I started to think, and make the important conclusions based on my own way of thinking... A smaller story provided so much more emotions and thoughts than the large full-scale RPG trilogy. And I'm sure BioWare can make even better story, if they have desire to.

there is no sadness in TLoU's ending

[The Heretic of Time]

crimzontearz wrote...

there is no sadness in TLoU's ending

Indeed, just as there is no sadness in ME3's ending.

[Steelcan]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

there is no sadness in TLoU's ending

Indeed, just as there is no sadness in ME3's ending.

Well I suppose there would be for those who are sad that the game stopped offering up "paragon=win" options.