45 réponses à ce sujet

[Mothalickaz]

 Who has it worse in thedas? 

After playing through the city elf origin, I have to say that the elves have it pretty bad in thedas, or at least fereldan. Their basically marked as slaves and the humans, or at least the nobles, can pretty much do whatever they want to them, and if they fight back, death is not out of the question for them. 

The mages being kept within the circle, and the elves being kept within the alienage are probably the same degree of alienation from the world. 

But I feel that even in their alienage, the elves still get tampered with by others a lot more than the mages do in the circle. It's also more likely that the circle is a lot more peaceful than the alienage(despite demon possession of course..) since their located in a magical tower across a dangerous lake, whereas the alienage is connected to the city, for easy access from outsiders. 

Your thoughts?

[CuriousArtemis]

Mages are basically put into internment camps. While elves are certainly discriminated against to a sickening degree (I think they are not even allowed to carry a weapon), they do have the freedom to leave the city and strike out on their own. A person born a mage has his/her freedom taken from him/her.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 08 juillet 2013 - 09:53 .

[Secretlyapotato]

Elves.

Mages live in a nice, cozy tower and they also have magic powers.

[ShadowLordXII]

Thedas has a long grand history of $&#@ing on elves and discrimination continues thanks to the Chantry's blessing.

While a mage can draw on the Fade and use magic to fend for themselves...Elves pretty much have to deal with living at the bottom of a society that hates them or join the Dalish whom humans are hunting.

[DatOneFanboy]

there are mages who suffer outside of the circle and theres plenty of elves who are doing fine and some live among the dalish, this Debate is invalid since we dont have statistics and for what i have seen everybody suffers in the world of Thedas.

[Mothalickaz]

ShadowLordXII wrote...

Thedas has a long grand history of $&#@ing on elves and discrimination continues thanks to the Chantry's blessing.

While a mage can draw on the Fade and use magic to fend for themselves...Elves pretty much have to deal with living at the bottom of a society that hates them or join the Dalish whom humans are hunting.

Not only humans, but the dalish are also hunted by what lives in the forest. Dalish elves honestly have it no better than city elves imo, if your dalish, you always have to worry about things like humans, werewolves, rhyming trees, and such. If you live in the city...well, you know how that goes.

[Mothalickaz]

DatOneFanboy wrote...

there are mages who suffer outside of the circle and theres plenty of elves who are doing fine and some live among the dalish, this Debate is invalid since we dont have statistics and for what i have seen everybody suffers in the world of Thedas.

Yes, but just like the real world, some suffer a great more than others.

Also, we don't need statistics, it's just your own personal opinion, taken from your own personal experience while playing origins. When I played through origins, I felt that the elves had it harder than the mages. 

Like someone mentioned above, the mages always have magic to turn to, but we also have to remember that they are the most easily possessed, and that's a curse they have to live with. You also have to think of how some elves are used as slaves, while some mages are also used as slaves, but they just call them "tranquil".

They both have it pretty bad, but in your own opinions, who do you personally feel more sorry for?

Maybe you feel sorry for both, if that's the case, then alright.

[DarthLaxian]

well, the werewolfs were a dalish product (thank you Zathrian), talking tres don't like burning arrows it would say and the rest of things? well, better then living in the city (but not by much...i would not like living in a forest constantly on the move...i would like staying in one place...but having to fight with humans who have superior numbers?...well i don't know

as for mages:

yeah IMHO they have it worse - they don't have a choice but to go to the tower (and with the templars having a phylactery running is hard) and there they can be killed any moment, be made tranquil (and being raped) or being raped without being made tranquil etc.

so yeah, they have it worse - yes their cage is a golden one, but it is still a cage (and it's less golden when you hear of raping and torturing!)

greetings LAX

[Luiren]

I think both have it equally bad. Elves, have a very tiny amount more of freedom, as long as they are not in a human society/alienage. Mages on the other hand, are hunted if they try to strike out on their own. I feel the most pity towards elven mages......they got the very short straw.

[PlasmaCheese]

Elves.

[Mikoto8472]

Both, equally but in different ways.

[Mothalickaz]

DarthLaxian wrote...

well, the werewolfs were a dalish product (thank you Zathrian), talking tres don't like burning arrows it would say and the rest of things? well, better then living in the city (but not by much...i would not like living in a forest constantly on the move...i would like staying in one place...but having to fight with humans who have superior numbers?...well i don't know

as for mages:

yeah IMHO they have it worse - they don't have a choice but to go to the tower (and with the templars having a phylactery running is hard) and there they can be killed any moment, be made tranquil (and being raped) or being raped without being made tranquil etc.

so yeah, they have it worse - yes their cage is a golden one, but it is still a cage (and it's less golden when you hear of raping and torturing!)

greetings LAX

Well, the elves also get raped and tortured by the nobles themselves, and the city guards, the people who you would expect to protect you. The elves also can't be made tranquil, and I think being tortured and/or sexually abused would be less devistating if you were made tranquil. 

But, I played as an elven mage and I didn't get much respect from any race. The elves didn't like me because I wasn't dalish. The chantry didn't like me because I was a mage, and everyone else didn't like me except morrigan because I butchered children and stole from the poor to feed my own greed...but that last one is mostly my fault lol

[Rawgrim]

Elves. As long as they don`t look like those freaks from DA2.

[thats1evildude]

Hmmm, a life of abject poverty and discrimination vs. living in a fancy tower and a few templars giving you mean stares from time to time.

Well, I know what I'd pick.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 08 juillet 2013 - 11:25 .

[Secretlyapotato]

thats1evildude wrote...

Hmmm, a life of abject poverty and discrimination vs. living in a fancy tower and a few templars giving you mean stares from time to time.

Well, I know what I'd pick.

Don't forget.


Magic. Powerz.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Both are screwed if you are dalish you have much better life than circle mage who doesn't know when it might come his last hour , but when you are city elf you screwed more because you don't when someone will kill you but you have to live in terrible conditions.

[Mothalickaz]

Secretlyapotato wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Hmmm, a life of abject poverty and discrimination vs. living in a fancy tower and a few templars giving you mean stares from time to time.

Well, I know what I'd pick.

Don't forget.


Magic. Powerz.

Also do not forget that magic is both one of the best gifts, and one of the worse curses anyone can receive in thedas. Magic is a direct gateway to the fade, mages always have to worry about being possessed, or becoming tranquil.

You also have to remember that even if you have those magic powers at your will, you can't use them at your will. Imagine having all that power and never being able to use it for yourself?

As for the life of poverty and discrimination, that is true, but during the time of blight, everyone was in poverty, really. As for discrimination, I can't disagree with you on that one. 

Elves I feel also have it worse because of one reason, the mages are much more important to thedas than elves are. The mages have a legendary past that has shaped thedas into what it is today, whereas the elves past is mostly made up of slavery. While the mages are the direct back bone to thedas, elves can be disposed of and no one would even notice.

Modifié par Mothalickaz, 08 juillet 2013 - 11:30 .

[RobRam10]

Elves kekekek. Also why are people ignoring the glorious Tevinter Imperium? it seems everyone focuses on Andrastian (Orlais Chantry) nations, We got mages being the supreme masters and Elves being slaves! ( as it should continue to be so!).

[Nightdragon8]

elven mages, cause they get both bad ends of both sticks...

[Anubis722]

Elves

[Mothalickaz]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

elven mages, cause they get both bad ends of both sticks...

Thank you for your concern. Lol joking.

[dragondreamer]

 Being born a non-Dalish elven mage is like winning the Thedosian life lottery.  

If we're speaking in generalizations, I'd say the Dalish have it better than the Circle mages.  But the Circle mages have it better than the city elves.  Some of the dangers hanging over the heads of the mages and the city elves are similar, but at least the mages live comfortably while wondering if they'll be culled next week.

It's difficult to play oppression olympics with individuals though.  Some city elves do very well for themselves, even though they'll always have to face hardships and bigotry that comes from being an elf.  (I have a headcanon that Fenris *does* clean the bodies out of his mansion now and then, but racist thugs keep visiting him and he gains new floor decorations.)  The codex example of this is the successful elven family who tries to move out of the alienage, and ends up having to move back after their home is burned down.  I imagine upward mobility for elves is a very difficult thing though, and they'll hit the glass ceiling sooner than later.  Well-off city elves also seem to be very uncommon.  

It also depends on what poison you, prefer, I guess.  Do you want to live in a luxurious prison or live a hardscrabble but free life?  The Dalish seem to have the best deal, but even they face threat from humans and clan-slaughtering pcs from time to time.

[K_Tabris]

This is akin to asking who has it worse: [oppressed group a] or [oppressed group b]. There really is no answer to this question, because the criteria of what makes circumstances oppressive varies from person to person, people group to people group, nation to nation, etc.

[dragonflight288]

I say Casteless have it worse among all of them. Legally they don't even exist, and anyone can literally do anything to them because....they don't exist.

Elven mages have the worst of it on the surface. lol