Ok, Hawke can pick Templars/Mages...but does it really matter? Anders mind is made up, the two sides fight, and make you fight both. Shepard can also ask for Cerberus's help (on Mars, iirc), TIM says no, and you have to fight his goons. I see no difference.
The Warden vs. Hawke vs. Shepard - and the Inquisitor?
Débuté par
Ieldra
, juil. 09 2013 07:25
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#27
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 08:25
NRieh
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femShepard and femHawke are two characters that I really enjoy. I could add femRevan too, probably. I hope that my 'inquisitor' will take her place among them one day.
#28
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 08:26
iOnlySignIn
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No. Your dwarf avatar sucks. Bring Miranda back plox
#29
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 08:27
Jorji Costava
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I think the OP makes a fair point; I would chalk it up to the fact that unlike DA, ME has a character importation system, so every time you play the next installment of ME, you're bringing with you the baggage of how you characterized your Shepard in the previous game. But no matter how you played the previous installment, Shepard has to fit into the overall plot structure of the next game; they can't make five or six different games based on how you played the previous one, so you can end up with some pretty out of character moments. For instance, pure paragon Sole Survivor Shepard joining Cerberus in ME2, or radical pro-human renegade Shepard turning him or herself in to the Alliance at the beginning of ME3, etc. If you had a new protagonist each ME game, we'd simply take these actions for granted as being in-character, since we wouldn't have any history with the character to indicate otherwise.
#30
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 08:29
Steelcan
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. It is still a choice. You endorse a side of your choosing and there are results of this choice. Shepard gets no choice in ME3 on who to support. He will always support the Alliance. Hawke can pick a side.Barquiel wrote...
Ok, Hawke can pick Templars/Mages...but does it really matter? Anders mind is made up, the two sides fight, and make you fight both. Shepard can also ask for Cerberus's help (on Mars, iirc), TIM says no, and you have to fight his goons. I see no difference.
#31
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 08:32
Sir DeLoria
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Steelcan wrote...
Arent you just a Tali loving pure paragon?Necanor wrote...
Well, the Warden is a mime so no(no amount of Alistair can save that). Hawke is cool, but I thought his background was über boring and too linear(Warden was better there). Shep isn't perfect, but nevertheless superior(unless you play a robot or Liara loving pure paragon).
Well, I'm a 75% Paragon. I always go Renegade during the Rannoch Arc and in the DLCs.
#32
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 08:35
LinksOcarina
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Barquiel wrote...
Ok, Hawke can pick Templars/Mages...but does it really matter? Anders mind is made up, the two sides fight, and make you fight both. Shepard can also ask for Cerberus's help (on Mars, iirc), TIM says no, and you have to fight his goons. I see no difference.
Well find out in Inquisition now won't we? much like who you pick as King, that is likely going to be a major choice that factors into future storylines in some way.
Modifié par LinksOcarina, 09 juillet 2013 - 08:37 .
#34
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 10:45
Keeper of Light
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You're a biased DA fangirl, so I'll stop it from here.
#35
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 10:46
Keeper of Light
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DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Warden > Shepard > Hawke.
Shepard > Hawke > Warden
#36
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 10:49
Nole
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DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Warden > Shepard > Hawke.
#37
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 11:06
CuriousArtemis
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I would definitely agree that Shepard was my least favorite character... yet the ME series had a greater emotional impact on me and really blew me away in some respects.
Hawke remains my favorite character... thanks to his great VA, mostly. I also fell head over heels in love with the Fenris romance, and I'm quite enamored of the other three romances as well.
DA:O actually gave me the most options to create a character I could love and relate to. I love the way my Wardens look (could do with better hair though, obviously). Thought the Dalish Warden in particular had a great backstory and just "I hate humans; I want to go home!" attitude that made me laugh and want to hug him.
But his silence made it impossible for me to ever feel close to him. Much as I love Zevran, I didn't feel an intense connection to the romance because Zevran was kind of making love to a silent robot. And the DA:O story mimics quite a few high fantasy novels I read as a teen.
So even though in terms of role-playing, it's Warden > Hawke > Shepard ... when it comes to enjoyment of the character, for me it's Hawke > Shepard > Warden.
It's hard to rank them. All good games.
Hawke remains my favorite character... thanks to his great VA, mostly. I also fell head over heels in love with the Fenris romance, and I'm quite enamored of the other three romances as well.
DA:O actually gave me the most options to create a character I could love and relate to. I love the way my Wardens look (could do with better hair though, obviously). Thought the Dalish Warden in particular had a great backstory and just "I hate humans; I want to go home!" attitude that made me laugh and want to hug him.
But his silence made it impossible for me to ever feel close to him. Much as I love Zevran, I didn't feel an intense connection to the romance because Zevran was kind of making love to a silent robot. And the DA:O story mimics quite a few high fantasy novels I read as a teen.
So even though in terms of role-playing, it's Warden > Hawke > Shepard ... when it comes to enjoyment of the character, for me it's Hawke > Shepard > Warden.
It's hard to rank them. All good games.
#38
Posté 09 juillet 2013 - 11:55
Rawgrim
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Warden. The others wern`t my characters at all.
#39
Posté 10 juillet 2013 - 12:31
TheRealJayDee
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DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Warden > Shepard > Hawke.
It's like this for me now as well. Until ME3 it used to be Warden/Shepard > Hawke, though...
#40
Posté 10 juillet 2013 - 01:15
RepHope
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You should make a poll
I personally go Shepard > Warden > Hawke
I loved my shepard, enjoyed being the warden and was utterly bored with Hawke. Hawke is the one who seems most like his own character or Biowares character as you might say. I didn't enjoy trying to RP as him.
I personally go Shepard > Warden > Hawke
I loved my shepard, enjoyed being the warden and was utterly bored with Hawke. Hawke is the one who seems most like his own character or Biowares character as you might say. I didn't enjoy trying to RP as him.
#42
Posté 10 juillet 2013 - 04:52
Danny Boy 7
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Steelcan wrote...
. It is still a choice. You endorse a side of your choosing and there are results of this choice. Shepard gets no choice in ME3 on who to support. He will always support the Alliance. Hawke can pick a side.Barquiel wrote...
Ok, Hawke can pick Templars/Mages...but does it really matter? Anders mind is made up, the two sides fight, and make you fight both. Shepard can also ask for Cerberus's help (on Mars, iirc), TIM says no, and you have to fight his goons. I see no difference.
I sort of agree with you because despite the end choice ultimately having you fight both sides there is still a somewhat permanent end result. Hawke becomes a fugitive if they side with mages or Viscount of Kirkwall. Mind you it eventually ends but Hawke's reputation with either faction remains the same. They are either templar or mage supporters. Unfortunately Shepard doesn't get that choice. They MUST oppose Cerberus.
I think both work, but I prefer the way they went in their respective genres.
#43
Posté 10 juillet 2013 - 05:30
Star fury
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DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Warden > Shepard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hawke.
FTFY.
#44
Posté 10 juillet 2013 - 05:50
Anubis722
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DarkKnightHolmes wrote...
Warden > Shepard > Hawke.
#46
Posté 10 juillet 2013 - 06:09
Hadeedak
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I will say I really felt for my poor Hawke. Everything she worked for fell apart, which made her WAY more sympathetic in a lot of ways than the Chosen Protagonist role Shepard and Warden landed in. So to some extent, I felt she was more believable, as opposed to the Warden and Shepard, where I pretty much had to beat them with the head-canon-flaw-bat to make them a bit more interesting.
I loved the origins. Dwarf duster for the win, complete with the cliched HELMET COMES OFF, LOOKATMYTATTOOES. But after that, the warden sort of fell flat. Unless I screwed things up, most everything seemed to land in her lap. So it was easy to visualize a super awesome warden who barely seemed to break a sweat. Which, I might add, was not helped by being voiceless. I find it hard to play in someone else's sandbox without some restraints -- s'why I'm complete trousers at fanfic-- so DA:O allowed me a bit too much freedom with my girl. Which only made every time the story yanked me around on a leash more jarring. "Wait, wait, story, I want to go this way! She probably would!" "TOO BAD. YOU CAN'T!" It kind of got to me. It was like the uncanny valley of choices. Too much, yet not quite enough.
Shepard, duh, I love too (Yes, I love them all.) My big cyborg undead space super hero has a special place in my heart, renegade scars and all. I don't think it's as easy to tweak variation out of Shepard as it is with Hawke or the Warden, so if this is just about how much you can get...
Warden>Hawke>Shepard
If it's about how much I luffs them, though....
Hawke>Shepard>Warden. AND IT'S VERY CLOSE.
I loved the origins. Dwarf duster for the win, complete with the cliched HELMET COMES OFF, LOOKATMYTATTOOES. But after that, the warden sort of fell flat. Unless I screwed things up, most everything seemed to land in her lap. So it was easy to visualize a super awesome warden who barely seemed to break a sweat. Which, I might add, was not helped by being voiceless. I find it hard to play in someone else's sandbox without some restraints -- s'why I'm complete trousers at fanfic-- so DA:O allowed me a bit too much freedom with my girl. Which only made every time the story yanked me around on a leash more jarring. "Wait, wait, story, I want to go this way! She probably would!" "TOO BAD. YOU CAN'T!" It kind of got to me. It was like the uncanny valley of choices. Too much, yet not quite enough.
Shepard, duh, I love too (Yes, I love them all.) My big cyborg undead space super hero has a special place in my heart, renegade scars and all. I don't think it's as easy to tweak variation out of Shepard as it is with Hawke or the Warden, so if this is just about how much you can get...
Warden>Hawke>Shepard
If it's about how much I luffs them, though....
Hawke>Shepard>Warden. AND IT'S VERY CLOSE.
#47
Posté 10 juillet 2013 - 07:19
Warden Inquisitor
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I believe I will like the Inquisitor more than Hawke. Since it isn't a named character, I will feel better about it. If he/she ends up being a Good protagonist, I will have him and the Warden team up.
#48
Posté 10 juillet 2013 - 07:43
Nightwriter
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I couldn't agree more.Ieldra2 wrote...
As opposed to ME2 and ME3, in both DAO and DA2 I don't feel like I'm fighting the writers, desperately searching for dialogue options and interpretations of them that work for me with only moderate success. Both the Warden and Hawke adapt nicely to how I envision them, except for a few quibbles like being unable to create a good looking custom femHawke or the occasional misleading paraphrase on the dialogue wheel. It's much easier roleplaying. Also, I don't know why, but both the Warden and Hawke feel much better integrated into their world. Maybe it's because of my personal disconnect, but they're much more part of the events rather than influencing them from without (that's how things feel for me in ME). About Shepard, I wrote a thread about why I don't like them in ME2, and why they're out of character in ME3. I'd never write something like that about the Warden or Hawke.
So...it's been very nice coming back to the DA universe, roleplaying wise. I recall when DA2 came out, I said that whatever its flaws I liked its roleplaying. That hasn't changed and I hope that DAI will take inspiration of its predecessors for how its protagonist comes across.
What's everyone else's take on this?
Shepard felt much flatter than Hawke and had poorer dialogue than the Warden. He was an action hero character forced into a universe that was actually fairly deep and complex (imo). There was usually a much higher chance of his dialogue options being unyummy, and his character often felt stale. This isn't to say ME never gave you moments where you could really shine -- it did -- but there was still enough staleness to make it a very mixed bag.
I also felt like the DA protags didn't get quite as much false praise as Shepard. In Mass Effect, everyone acted like Shepard was all that, but I often felt like it was just empty praise and not a result of anything I'd demonstrated. The only time the praise felt accurate was when people were saying Shepard was a killing machine, and that really isn't the only thing I want to get meaningful recognition for.
But in the case of Hawke and to a lesser extent the Warden, I did get a sense of charisma and personality that made such praise at least a little bit easier to swallow.
I have no reason to think the Inquisitor will be any less satisfactory than Hawke and the Warden were, even if the rest of the game has problems. I only wish the ME team had been more like the DA team in this respect.
#49
Posté 10 juillet 2013 - 08:00
Ieldra
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@all:
(Edit: partly preempted by Nightwriter who posted while I was writing
)
I think my problem with Shepard is that (s)he's a predefined archetype, the aptly-named "unstoppable juggernaut of headbutting destruction" who oozes militaristic badassery and action-heroism and occasionally comes across as not really bright. Which is fine if you like the type, but results in tortured attempts to make it work for you if you don't. I tend to hate the type, resulting in....difficulties.
Hawke is a much more neutral personality to start with. The roleplaying options you get define her to a much greater degree. The Warden is defined by being a Grey Warden to a greater degree than Hawke but with limited effect on their personality, and with the origins being and providing roleplaying options in themselves you feel less constrained overall.
All that means I can live with a predefined origin (Hawke) as such, but not so much with a protaganist whose personality is shaped by an origin I can't opt out of, or common elements of all provided origins I can't opt out of (Shepard). Which is what I sometimes fear will happen with DAI's "Inquisitor", the title being evocative of quite a few things I dislike.
Limitations on what you can do are unavoidable in video games, but I want to be free to imagine why I'm doing things, I want to express how I feel about the structures I'm bound by and how I feel about doing these things occasionally. I want to do that more extensively than in a throwaway line smothered by the weight of personality-shaping autodialogue and other events I can't avoid elsewhere. As David Gaider said in his blog about game design, you can't explicitly cater to all player bases, but you can and should make an effort not to explicitly reject any. Both DAO and DA2 were largely successful in that. It would be nice if DAI followed suit.
(Edit: partly preempted by Nightwriter who posted while I was writing
)I think my problem with Shepard is that (s)he's a predefined archetype, the aptly-named "unstoppable juggernaut of headbutting destruction" who oozes militaristic badassery and action-heroism and occasionally comes across as not really bright. Which is fine if you like the type, but results in tortured attempts to make it work for you if you don't. I tend to hate the type, resulting in....difficulties.
Hawke is a much more neutral personality to start with. The roleplaying options you get define her to a much greater degree. The Warden is defined by being a Grey Warden to a greater degree than Hawke but with limited effect on their personality, and with the origins being and providing roleplaying options in themselves you feel less constrained overall.
All that means I can live with a predefined origin (Hawke) as such, but not so much with a protaganist whose personality is shaped by an origin I can't opt out of, or common elements of all provided origins I can't opt out of (Shepard). Which is what I sometimes fear will happen with DAI's "Inquisitor", the title being evocative of quite a few things I dislike.
Limitations on what you can do are unavoidable in video games, but I want to be free to imagine why I'm doing things, I want to express how I feel about the structures I'm bound by and how I feel about doing these things occasionally. I want to do that more extensively than in a throwaway line smothered by the weight of personality-shaping autodialogue and other events I can't avoid elsewhere. As David Gaider said in his blog about game design, you can't explicitly cater to all player bases, but you can and should make an effort not to explicitly reject any. Both DAO and DA2 were largely successful in that. It would be nice if DAI followed suit.
Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 juillet 2013 - 08:09 .
#50
Posté 10 juillet 2013 - 08:30
Nightwriter
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See, it's the "soldier = dull stone" association that I sort of resent them for.
I really don't think there's anything wrong with the archetype itself. I just think stupidity shouldn't be inherently part of it. There have been military leaders throughout history and throughout fiction that I would have been delighted to play a similar role to, and whose personalities were very interesting. Shepard is supposed to be a very high ranking special operative, and a Spectre to boot -- this lends itself to intelligence much more than to the dimness of a grunt. Yet I can't remember how many times I said I wished Shepard was brighter and people said "he's a soldier" as if that's license to be dumb.
So I don't want them to think it's hard-frame molds like "military officer" we dislike. It's when this imposes tasteless and unnecessary constraints on us. Which is why I'm not too worried about the Inquisitor. The DA team managed to make me a Warden without making me feel constrained like I did with Shepard, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt in DA:I.
I really don't think there's anything wrong with the archetype itself. I just think stupidity shouldn't be inherently part of it. There have been military leaders throughout history and throughout fiction that I would have been delighted to play a similar role to, and whose personalities were very interesting. Shepard is supposed to be a very high ranking special operative, and a Spectre to boot -- this lends itself to intelligence much more than to the dimness of a grunt. Yet I can't remember how many times I said I wished Shepard was brighter and people said "he's a soldier" as if that's license to be dumb.
So I don't want them to think it's hard-frame molds like "military officer" we dislike. It's when this imposes tasteless and unnecessary constraints on us. Which is why I'm not too worried about the Inquisitor. The DA team managed to make me a Warden without making me feel constrained like I did with Shepard, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt in DA:I.
Modifié par Nightwriter, 10 juillet 2013 - 08:31 .
