194 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolfva2]

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

<VERY BIG SNIP>

No, really...tell us how you feel.  What a long and insanely angry rant.  Ok, first off?  I like to use the general 'you'.  When I say YOU, I mean the general public.  You (and YOU for that matter) do the same.  Outside of the first paragraph, I was talking generally.  I would have thought that was obvious since I wasn't talking about things only you had said, but hey.  I overestimated your intelligence.  It happens.  Anyways, most of that rant is based on a fallacious beleif of what I was saying.  Sorry, I won't answer to what you THINK I'm saying.

So Hooker (using your name so you know I'm still talking to you, I'd hate to confuse you again), you went on about the majority of fans this and that.  You don't know what the majority of fans liked.  You only know what YOU like.  You didn't like the ending.  Other people didn't like the ending.  Thus, they're the majority because they agree with you!  Nope, sorry Hooker.  It doesn't work like that.  The vast majority of players don't even visit gaming sites.  And really, very few game companies make games for fans; they make them for players.  Those that do are niche companies, like Eve online.  That model works for them.  BW seems to be aiming for more sells.

Have to address this Hooker...you said you believe in peace...<ROTFLOL>.  Thanks for the laugh man. I mean, after that very long, vitriolic rant?  You believe in peace?  Heh...heheh.

You said, "Saying that fanfictions and mods are wrong is like saying that smoking
weed is wrong. People still do it, and they like it. So go ahead, you
and chemiclord, keep trying to speak on Bioware's behalf and saying that
mods and fanfics(lol) are wrong because you have their best interests
in mind, YOU know what they're thinking, and YOU know what's legal while
no one else does! Woo hoo! Congratulations!"

How odd.  So, you attribute comments we didn't make to us and claim a falsity that we're speaking on BWs behalf)? Really?  Well, I can't speak for Chemlord.  Nor can I speak for BW.  I can only speak for myself.  Now, Hooker, I know it's obvious from the context of your rant that you believe the ONLY people who are allowed an opinion are those who agree with you.  Sorry, I beleive BOTH sides have that right.   Which my OTHER comments in this thread bear out in full.

Look, if you can't debate it's ok Hooker.  Not everyone can.  Which is evidenced by the tried and true method of claiming the other side said something they didn't while heaping scorn and insults on them, all while screaming that you're defending the rights of people to have an opinion while trying to completely demean the other person's opinion.  Try to be consistent at least.  I may not like your opinion, but I support your right to voice it.  No matter how hypocritical you may be.

[Wolfva2]

Bill Casey wrote...

Keep assuming things about me...
It's amusing...

Yes, isn't it!  Like, what exactly am I assuming here?  That your username is Bill Casey?  Ummm...it's right there.  That you apparently (KEY WORD THERE!!!) think people don't own their own creations?  Well, that's what you've been arguing.  That you know more about the Mona Lisa then I do?  Well, you DID tell me something I didn't know.  So yeah, I think that was pretty much a true statement.

My second statement is an opinion of your character, not an assumption about you.  But, to me at least, you ARE an anonymous person on the internet.  Dunno how you see that as an assumption.  I mean, are you famous?  I looked up 'Bill Casey', you're not the Canadien politician are you?  Seriously dude, you're anonymous.  

[Bill Casey]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Which is evidenced by the tried and true method of claiming the other side said something they didn't while heaping scorn and insults on them, all while screaming that you're defending the rights of people to have an opinion while trying to completely demean the other person's opinion.  Try to be consistent at least.  I may not like your opinion, but I support your right to voice it.  No matter how hypocritical you may be.

Wolfva2 wrote...

Needless to say, it surprises me not in the least that a person who thinks other people's work should belong to him ALSO thinks everyone should know, and apparently be in awe, of him.

Wow...
You didn't even wait a few posts...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 11 juillet 2013 - 06:43 .

[Bill Casey]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Yes, isn't it!  Like, what exactly am I assuming here?

That I'm not creative and that I think you should know me...

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

Wolfva2 wrote...

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

<VERY BIG SNIP>

No, really...tell us how you feel.  What a long and insanely angry rant.  Ok, first off?  I like to use the general 'you'.  When I say YOU, I mean the general public.  You (and YOU for that matter) do the same.  Outside of the first paragraph, I was talking generally.  I would have thought that was obvious since I wasn't talking about things only you had said, but hey.  I overestimated your intelligence.  It happens.  Anyways, most of that rant is based on a fallacious beleif of what I was saying.  Sorry, I won't answer to what you THINK I'm saying.

So Hooker (using your name so you know I'm still talking to you, I'd hate to confuse you again), you went on about the majority of fans this and that.  You don't know what the majority of fans liked.  You only know what YOU like.  You didn't like the ending.  Other people didn't like the ending.  Thus, they're the majority because they agree with you!  Nope, sorry Hooker.  It doesn't work like that.  The vast majority of players don't even visit gaming sites.  And really, very few game companies make games for fans; they make them for players.  Those that do are niche companies, like Eve online.  That model works for them.  BW seems to be aiming for more sells.

Have to address this Hooker...you said you believe in peace...<ROTFLOL>.  Thanks for the laugh man. I mean, after that very long, vitriolic rant?  You believe in peace?  Heh...heheh.

You said, "Saying that fanfictions and mods are wrong is like saying that smoking
weed is wrong. People still do it, and they like it. So go ahead, you
and chemiclord, keep trying to speak on Bioware's behalf and saying that
mods and fanfics(lol) are wrong because you have their best interests
in mind, YOU know what they're thinking, and YOU know what's legal while
no one else does! Woo hoo! Congratulations!"

How odd.  So, you attribute comments we didn't make to us and claim a falsity that we're speaking on BWs behalf)? Really?  Well, I can't speak for Chemlord.  Nor can I speak for BW.  I can only speak for myself.  Now, Hooker, I know it's obvious from the context of your rant that you believe the ONLY people who are allowed an opinion are those who agree with you.  Sorry, I beleive BOTH sides have that right.   Which my OTHER comments in this thread bear out in full.

Look, if you can't debate it's ok Hooker.  Not everyone can.  Which is evidenced by the tried and true method of claiming the other side said something they didn't while heaping scorn and insults on them, all while screaming that you're defending the rights of people to have an opinion while trying to completely demean the other person's opinion.  Try to be consistent at least.  I may not like your opinion, but I support your right to voice it.  No matter how hypocritical you may be.

lol, I don't even understand what you're saying right now. I'm not being hypocrytical at all. And no, I might not know the majority of the fans, but I have a pretty good idea of how they generally felt, judging from all of the comments made on this forum.

And, you know, when you say YOU this and YOU that and YOU and YOU and YOU so many times, yeah, I think anyone would get confused that you were directing at more than one person. It's, you know, grammar. Singular and plural.

And I do believe in peace. Just because I have some very angry things to say, doesn't mean I believe in peace? LOL, you're more stupid that I thought. Wow, really? And again their you go twisting my words until I can't even understand what you're even talking about, I NEVER said that people who have an opinion different from mine don't have that right. I believe that BOTH sides have that right, too, even if there is just two sides, btw.

And I kept pointing out the majority of people, because the MAJORITY of fans didn't like ME3's ending. I mean, come on, man, that's really simply common sense. You don't need to look at this forum to know that. You don't need to go to Youtube and look up every Mass Effect video to see just how many fans were upset with the endings. It's obvious. Most were. Not the players, the fans. And ok, so maybe Bioware were aiming to impress the players that they knew would play the game and not fans. They STILL made the EC and CITADEL DLC to impress the fans.

I didn't claim the other side said something, I made examples of Bioware's many attempts to make fans that were upset with the game happy(Because that was a lot of fans), which there is actually evidence of, like about a dozen interviews where they talked specifically about the backlash to the endings. Ok, so maybe, just maybe, just mayyyybeee, out of humor, the majority of fans of Mass Effect weren't upset with the game, which is what you're claiming. There was still a ****ing lot of them that were, enough to make them respond. Plus the DLCs.

And I am consistent. I beleive that everyone has a right to their own opinion, and freedom of speech, but, I am going to call out on people for being utter idiots, like you.

And good job on pathetically making fun of my response as a coverup for barely responding to it. 

La, la la, la la

Modifié par favoritehookeronthecitadel, 11 juillet 2013 - 06:54 .

[Wolfva2]

[quote]Bill Casey wrote...

Needless to say, it surprises me not in the least that a person who thinks other people's work should belong to him ALSO thinks everyone should know, and apparently be in awe, of him.[/quote]
Wow...
You didn't even wait a few posts...

[/quote]

Yeah, I type fast.    I was kinda shocked that there wasn't a few responces already made.  This thread was moving so fast before Ninja Stan told us to behave <sulk>. 

Bill, you said that if I thought you weren't creative then I didn't know you.  Well, I DON'T know you.  You act like I should. As if I should know how creative you are.  Sorry, I don't.  That's my point.  I dunno where you get that I'm assuming I SHOULD know you since I keep saying the opposite.  Maybe you ARE creative after all <LOL>.

[GimmeDaGun]

iakus wrote...

 For five years they told us these were our Shepards, that our descisions shaped the story, that there was no canon but what me made for yourselves.

So yes.  It's either that or let Bioware railroad us to their own grim vision of how Shepard's story should end.  If others want to take what they were given, fine.  But my Shepards deserved better.

...and for 5 years you fell for obvious marketing BS. Congratulaions. I mean, come on ME was never your story, not from the beginning to the very end. One has to be very naive to take all those marketing slogans for face value or to pay them any attention in the first place. Maybe it's the cynical Central-European in me, but that's how I see it. 

So while many think here that they have a Shepard... I never had one. But I enjoyed the hell out of the Shepard story with all its permutations which Bioware wrote. 

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 11 juillet 2013 - 07:03 .

[Bill Casey]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Bill, you said that if I thought you weren't creative then I didn't know you.  Well, I DON'T know you.  You act like I should. As if I should know how creative you are.  Sorry, I don't.  That's my point.  I dunno where you get that I'm assuming I SHOULD know you since I keep saying the opposite.  Maybe you ARE creative after all <LOL>.

You don't know how creative I am...
That IS my point...

You made up that I wasn't creative, and you know nothing about me...
Never once did I say you should know who I am or be in awe of me...

Those were two other things you made up about me...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 11 juillet 2013 - 07:03 .

[GimmeDaGun]

chemiclord wrote...

Well... you should acknowledge it because... like it or not... it IS their story. It is THEIR world. Not yours. It's a bit of undue arrogance whenever a fan actually thinks they can say to a creator, "I know your world better than you", even IF you think it's true... hell even if it IS true.

You are under no obligation to like what you are given. But you should at least be willing to respect the person who gave it to you. Your own personal ending wouldn't exist without them.

Yeah, I agree.

[Wolfva2]

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

I didn't claim the other side said something, I made examples of Bioware's many attempts to make fans that were upset with the game happy(Because that was a lot of fans), which there is actually evidence of, like about a dozen interviews where they talked specifically about the backlash to the endings. Ok, so maybe, just maybe, just mayyyybeee, out of humor, the majority of fans of Mass Effect weren't upset with the game, which is what you're claiming. There was still a ****ing lot of them that were, enough to make them respond. Plus the DLCs.

And I am consistent. I beleive that everyone has a right to their own opinion, and freedom of speech, but, I am going to call out on people for being utter idiots, like you.

And good job on pathetically making fun of my response as a coverup for barely responding to it. 

La, la la, la la

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

[Saying that
fanfictions and mods are wrong is like saying that smoking weed is
wrong. People still do it, and they like it. So go ahead, you and
chemiclord, keep trying to speak on Bioware's behalf and saying that
mods and fanfics(lol) are wrong because you have their best interests in
mind, YOU know what they're thinking, and YOU know what's legal while
no one else does! Woo hoo! Congratulations!

Except neither I, nor Chemlord, said that mods and fanfics are wrong.  Yet, you just said we did.  That's called 'claiming the other side said something'.  Since Bioware even has a fanfic forum, I'm pretttty sure they're ok with it.

Everything else is just more attempts at personal attacks which I'm ignorring.  Mod DID say to play nice after all.


Ok, I can't let this go.  Just because people do illegal acts does NOT make it ok.  Don't beleive me?  Smoke some pot in front of me in my jurisdiction.  See if I don't arrest you.  Then, try telling the judge that other people do it and they like it so it's ok.  Further, I really hate that argument.  Let's switch the word 'weed' with another illegal activity.  Say, rape.  Or murder.  Or bootlegging videos.  The only difference is in severity of the crime.  If the best argument you have is, "But other people do it!" then your argument is lacking.

[Bill Casey]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Ok, I can't let this go.  Just because people do illegal acts does NOT make it ok.  Don't beleive me?  Smoke some pot in front of me in my jurisdiction.  See if I don't arrest you.  Then, try telling the judge that other people do it and they like it so it's ok.

You can enforce an unjust law, but that doesn't make what you and the judge did okay...

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

Wolfva2 wrote...

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

I didn't claim the other side said something, I made examples of Bioware's many attempts to make fans that were upset with the game happy(Because that was a lot of fans), which there is actually evidence of, like about a dozen interviews where they talked specifically about the backlash to the endings. Ok, so maybe, just maybe, just mayyyybeee, out of humor, the majority of fans of Mass Effect weren't upset with the game, which is what you're claiming. There was still a ****ing lot of them that were, enough to make them respond. Plus the DLCs.

And I am consistent. I beleive that everyone has a right to their own opinion, and freedom of speech, but, I am going to call out on people for being utter idiots, like you.

And good job on pathetically making fun of my response as a coverup for barely responding to it. 

La, la la, la la

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...

[Saying that
fanfictions and mods are wrong is like saying that smoking weed is
wrong. People still do it, and they like it. So go ahead, you and
chemiclord, keep trying to speak on Bioware's behalf and saying that
mods and fanfics(lol) are wrong because you have their best interests in
mind, YOU know what they're thinking, and YOU know what's legal while
no one else does! Woo hoo! Congratulations!

Except neither I, nor Chemlord, said that mods and fanfics are wrong.  Yet, you just said we did.  That's called 'claiming the other side said something'.  Since Bioware even has a fanfic forum, I'm pretttty sure they're ok with it.

Everything else is just more attempts at personal attacks which I'm ignorring.  Mod DID say to play nice after all.


Ok, I can't let this go.  Just because people do illegal acts does NOT make it ok.  Don't beleive me?  Smoke some pot in front of me in my jurisdiction.  See if I don't arrest you.  Then, try telling the judge that other people do it and they like it so it's ok.  Further, I really hate that argument.  Let's switch the word 'weed' with another illegal activity.  Say, rape.  Or murder.  Or bootlegging videos.  The only difference is in severity of the crime.  If the best argument you have is, "But other people do it!" then your argument is lacking.

Oh, just shut up you senseless retard. You and chemiclord were pointing out how illegal they are. News flash! Not everyone cares! If people cared so much about the ME mods and fanfics, Bioware would've DONE something about it by now. Therefore, it's not as wrong as you claim it is. Yeah, you want me to smoke weed in front of you? Fly a plane here, and I'll do it. And you try to arrest me, you stupid piece of crap. See who gives a **** about it. 

And my main defense isn't that other people do it, my defense is that I WOULD DO IT! I WOULD MAKE MODS AND WRITE FANFICS AND SMOKE WEED! And you're comparing little things like THAT to the likes of rape! How dare you! How DARE you! I would never rape someone or murder someone! You're so pathetic. So ****ing pathetic. You're disgusting and I'm disgusted by you. And you know what? That's MY SIDE, YOU STUPID BI-OTCH! 

And most people breaking a law doesn't make it ok, but I would like to beat your face in with a crowbar and kick the **** out of you. That might not be legal, but I'd do it anyway.

Your arguement is lacking ******. 

Modifié par favoritehookeronthecitadel, 11 juillet 2013 - 07:16 .

[ShadowLordXII]

I did not make this topic to argue about the ethical and legal implications of fanfiction and modding.

I'm not even sure if I should either bash my head on my desk or break down laughing from the sheer effort made into both sides of this off-subject argument.

If BW wants to close down the every single bioware category on fanfiction.net? So be, that's not why I opened this thread.

Get back on topic and be civil adults about it. I don't want the Mods to close this topic because we can't get along.

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

ShadowLordXII wrote...

I did not make this topic to argue about the ethical and legal implications of fanfiction and modding.

I'm not even sure if I should either bash my head on my desk or break down laughing from the sheer effort made into both sides of this off-subject argument.

If BW wants to close down the every single bioware category on fanfiction.net? So be, that's not why I opened this thread.

Get back on topic and be civil adults about it. I don't want the Mods to close this topic because we can't get along.

I'll try my best. I will.

[Wolfva2]

Bill Casey wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

Bill, you said that if I thought you weren't creative then I didn't know you.  Well, I DON'T know you.  You act like I should. As if I should know how creative you are.  Sorry, I don't.  That's my point.  I dunno where you get that I'm assuming I SHOULD know you since I keep saying the opposite.  Maybe you ARE creative after all <LOL>.

You don't know how creative I am...
That IS my point...

You made up that I wasn't creative, and you know nothing about me...
Never once did I say you should know who I am or be in awe of me...

Those were two other things you made up about me...

EXACTLY!  That's my point to!  I do NOT know how creative you are!  So, instead of complaining about how I don't know, howabout SHOW me you're creative?  I didn't MAKE UP that you weren't creative.  I stated my BELIEF that you aren't creative based on available data.  Your response?  "You don't know how creative I am!"  Well, duh.  

Here's an example; you could have gone Shakespearian:
Avast ye villeinous scoundrel!  
How dare ye impugn upon this my name!
Creativity, she resides in the bosom of my very SOUL!  
Foul fiend, I shan't allow such as thee, with thou sour and shriveled heart
to cast thine impusions!  Have at thee!

or, you could go with a limerick.
There once was an idiot named Kamui
Who posted these forums quite freely
he quipped I was not creative
and even used a superlative
yet my wit left him leaving the room quite weepy!

Instead, what do we get?  "You don't know me!  You don't know how creative I am!"  

Yep.  I didn't.  And still don't.

[Bill Casey]

Then don't assume things like that about people whom you don't know very well...

I stated my BELIEF that you aren't creative based on available data.

That's what an assumption is...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 11 juillet 2013 - 07:39 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

How about no canon? I'd rather they start a new IP or reboot the series instead of trying to salvage the current trainwreck.

[Wolfva2]

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...
Oh, just shut up you senseless retard. You and chemiclord were pointing out how illegal they are. News flash! Not everyone cares! If people cared so much about the ME mods and fanfics, Bioware would've DONE something about it by now. Therefore, it's not as wrong as you claim it is. Yeah, you want me to smoke weed in front of you? Fly a plane here, and I'll do it. And you try to arrest me, you stupid piece of crap. See who gives a **** about it. 

And my main defense isn't that other people do it, my defense is that I WOULD DO IT! I WOULD MAKE MODS AND WRITE FANFICS AND SMOKE WEED! And you're comparing little things like THAT to the likes of rape! How dare you! How DARE you! I would never rape someone or murder someone! You're so pathetic. So ****ing pathetic. You're disgusting and I'm disgusted by you. And you know what? That's MY SIDE, YOU STUPID BI-OTCH! 

And most people breaking a law doesn't make it ok, but I would like to beat your face in with a crowbar and kick the **** out of you. That might not be legal, but I'd do it anyway.

Your arguement is lacking ******. 

Nope.  Chem said something about how they were TECHNICALLY illegal, but BW was okay with them.   *I* never touched that topic atall.  YOU keep saying I did, and saying that Chem was arguing that it's illegal even though he wasn''t, he pointed out a technicality which was actually pretty minor to his point, AND he pointed out (I reiterated) that BW seemed to be completely okay with it.  Which seems to be your point as well, which is odd that you're even arguing with someone you agree with.  Anwyways,  I then post the comments that you continue to take out of context and your response is...to call me a retard, then launch into an extremely angry, vitriolic attack. 


If your defense is that you would do it so it should be ok....so what?  Go for it.  Bioware isn't going to do anything to you for making fanfics...unless you post it in the wrong forum, in which case they'll move it.  That's why they HAVE a fanfic forum.  Same with mods.  As far as the rest of your rant goes....yeahhhhh.  You said it was ok to do something illegal, like smoke pot, because other people do it.  I pointed out you could replace 'weed' with any other illegality.  That YOU might not do those things is meaningless to the argument.  Excusing the wrong doings of one with the wrong doings of another is...wrong.  Regardless of whether or not YOU (and yes Hooker, I mean you personally) think it should be illegal or not. 

[Wolfva2]

ShadowLordXII wrote...

I did not make this topic to argue about the ethical and legal implications of fanfiction and modding.

I'm not even sure if I should either bash my head on my desk or break down laughing from the sheer effort made into both sides of this off-subject argument.

If BW wants to close down the every single bioware category on fanfiction.net? So be, that's not why I opened this thread.

Get back on topic and be civil adults about it. I don't want the Mods to close this topic because we can't get along.

My appologies for my part in the derailment.  Not that I said anything about fanfiction or moding <G>.

Personally, I vote you break down laughing.  It's easier on the forehead, and you won't have to replace your keyboard if you miss the desk.

To reiterate what I said earlier, there's nothing wrong with fans making up their own endings to a game, movie, book, etc.  These things are created for entertainment, and if they entertain then they've succeeded.  I'd say the problem is when some fans start thinking that their headcannon is superior to every one elses, and start insisting that the game would be better if only the devs rewrote what they want into it.  Sure, sometimes the fan is actually right.  But sometimes they're not.  I give a company my money because I trust them; not another customer.  If the company proves they're worthy of my trust, they get more of my cash.  Otherwise, they get zilch.

On the DA:I forum, Gaider said something about how a player's headcannon, and the 'official' cannon can exist seperate from each other.  It's in his blog post about bringing Lelianna back.  I'd link it but I'm feeling lazy.  Besides, that forum needs more traffic.  I think he's right.  A person can headcannon that Shepard pimpslaps the catalyst, destroys the conduits with a mighty spray of urine from LtCmndr Shepard (euphimism for his penis) which causes the Reapers to fly into the sun in fear.  This doesn't effect anyone elses headcannon, nor does it affect BWs.  When the next game comes out, that person can play it as a seperate Shepard from an alternate universe where he doesn't have reaper fearing urine.  In the end, what matters is we're entertained; but we can't do that without BW's help.  As in...their help by creating this universe we play in.

[favoritehookeronthecitadel]

Wolfva2 wrote...

favoritehookeronthecitadel wrote...
Oh, just shut up you senseless retard. You and chemiclord were pointing out how illegal they are. News flash! Not everyone cares! If people cared so much about the ME mods and fanfics, Bioware would've DONE something about it by now. Therefore, it's not as wrong as you claim it is. Yeah, you want me to smoke weed in front of you? Fly a plane here, and I'll do it. And you try to arrest me, you stupid piece of crap. See who gives a **** about it. 

And my main defense isn't that other people do it, my defense is that I WOULD DO IT! I WOULD MAKE MODS AND WRITE FANFICS AND SMOKE WEED! And you're comparing little things like THAT to the likes of rape! How dare you! How DARE you! I would never rape someone or murder someone! You're so pathetic. So ****ing pathetic. You're disgusting and I'm disgusted by you. And you know what? That's MY SIDE, YOU STUPID BI-OTCH! 

And most people breaking a law doesn't make it ok, but I would like to beat your face in with a crowbar and kick the **** out of you. That might not be legal, but I'd do it anyway.

Your arguement is lacking ******. 

Nope.  Chem said something about how they were TECHNICALLY illegal, but BW was okay with them.   *I* never touched that topic atall.  YOU keep saying I did, and saying that Chem was arguing that it's illegal even though he wasn''t, he pointed out a technicality which was actually pretty minor to his point, AND he pointed out (I reiterated) that BW seemed to be completely okay with it.  Which seems to be your point as well, which is odd that you're even arguing with someone you agree with.  Anwyways,  I then post the comments that you continue to take out of context and your response is...to call me a retard, then launch into an extremely angry, vitriolic attack. 


If your defense is that you would do it so it should be ok....so what?  Go for it.  Bioware isn't going to do anything to you for making fanfics...unless you post it in the wrong forum, in which case they'll move it.  That's why they HAVE a fanfic forum.  Same with mods.  As far as the rest of your rant goes....yeahhhhh.  You said it was ok to do something illegal, like smoke pot, because other people do it.  I pointed out you could replace 'weed' with any other illegality.  That YOU might not do those things is meaningless to the argument.  Excusing the wrong doings of one with the wrong doings of another is...wrong.  Regardless of whether or not YOU (and yes Hooker, I mean you personally) think it should be illegal or not. 

Lots of things are illegal. The difference, to me, is how minor the crime is. I don't consider writing a fanfic to be a problem, even if it is technically illegal. So what chem even meintioned that, I don't know. I don't know why he's so angry with fans, citing "take it or leave it". Well, yeah, they can take it or leave it. It's not like fans have devised some plot to take over Bioware Corp and re-write the ending, so I don't see what his point is. 

And you're the one who quote my sentence-long post and wrote a 4 paragraph response, which appeared directly at me, and I'm not supposed to get volatile or whatever you keep saying.

Modifié par favoritehookeronthecitadel, 11 juillet 2013 - 08:00 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

Bill Casey wrote...
You only have as much control as fans are willing to give you...
They can outright reject what you've written and there's nothing you can do about it...

That is not true. Creators have the final say over the lore and the universe. Fan mods, while not illegal, isn't officially canon. If creators say that Event X didn't happen, then it didn't happen. You can create alternate universes, but then it's not official, and any subsequent installments set in the universe will ignore your alternate versions. MEHEM isn't canon, whether you or I like it or not. The universe does not belong to the fans, it belongs to Bioware. Bioware can add or alter the universe based on fan input, but the ultimate decision is their's. Is that clear?

It's fine for you dislike the endings. It's fine to reject the endings. It's fine to create your own ending that goes outside of what Bioware envisioned. But like it or not, the creators, Bioware, has control over their IP, and they declare what is officially recognized or not. If they decide not to listen to you, there's nothing you can do about it.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 11 juillet 2013 - 08:12 .

[Ieldra]

@OP:
You're asking if we should use our imagination to try and override Bioware's vision of the ending?

By all means we should if we dislike it enough! As long as it's clear it's our own parallel universe, maybe one shared with a few other fans, and has no influence at all on the MEU and its story as created by Bioware, and as long as we don't try to make money from it, we can and should do so. And if we have the time and the talent, then we should absolutely write it down for others to see.

Why? Several reasons

(1) Stories may be *legally* owned by their creators, but storytelling as a cultural activity is not as one-sided. Stories grow and change as they're retold, and which variant remains and survives to become part of a culture's body of art is not determined by the creators alone. If almost everyone disliked ME3's endings enough, the number of people who have different variants in their mind and tell them to others every opportunity they get will eventually eclipse those who have the original variants in their minds.

(2) I have seen several people who claimed they could do better than Bioware. While I doubt most of those could do better under the same kind of economic constraints affecting Bioware, here's the opportunity to prove it. Personally, I haven't seen any fanfic ending better than the EC endings, only different ones, but I have seen variants of the existing ones which were more consistent with the lore and didn't have contradictory or nonsensical elements in them, and I have seen fanfics re-imagining other parts of the official story which I'd have good reasons to call "better".

(3) Most importantly, I don't see any reason not to re-imagine any part of a story I don't like if that gives me more satisfaction than accepting what Bioware has written or just moving on to another story. I rarely have the motivation since my level of dislike is rarely high enough, but it has happened with Miranda's story arc in ME3, which I think sends a reactionary message through my favorite character. I'm mad enough about that to re-imagine large parts of her story.

On the other hand, no story aspect re-imagined by myself will ever remove the dissatisfaction of being told a story with a message I dislike. Where Bioware told me a story with a message I dislike, it's obviously a message they thought worth sending, and if it's one I passionately disagree with, my dissatisfaction will not only stay with me, but carry over from the story to the writer. No re-imagining will ever give me satisfaction unless a variant of the same story without the offending message, regardless of whether it's mine or anyone else's, will eventually eclipse the original in "cultural weight". That, btw, is why it was important for some people that Bioware changes the endings rather than some anonymous fanfic writer. They didn't just want a different ending, they wanted a different message sent out with the weight of a big game developer behind it.

The answer is still "yes, we should try to create our own variants if we dislike the existing ones", but we should also remain aware of how limited the effects of that will likely be.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 juillet 2013 - 08:16 .

[Erez Kristal]

chemiclord wrote...


It's not an attitude.  It's TRUE.  Modding and fanfiction are technically illegal practices; they are violations of copywrited material.  If an author or publisher feels particularly dickish, they can (and have) forced modders and fanfic writers to cease and desist.

The vast majority don't... because they aren't that dickish, 

This has nothing to do with dickish, preventing fans from doing something that could only benefit you, creates a backslash, Its bad Pr. and it shows in sales of future games.

Its not avoiding being dickish. its simple commonsense.

This kind of talk remind me of an old boss of mine, he started hurting the students - employees rights. i went for a one on one chat with him on the subject. he told me we were lucky to be working there with such benefits in the first place. i set him straight...

It a mutual benefactory. dont let anyone 'delude'    you otherwise.