194 réponses à ce sujet

[The Heretic of Time]

Kel Riever wrote...

I would bet money that at least a third of the BioWare staff smokes weed. More of them probably cross streets not at the intersections and sometimes listen to youtube songs they will never purchase.

I do all that and I'm proud of it.

[Fixers0]

 Mass Effect is supposedly a player's story, the ending of Mass Effect 3 being pretty much the epitome of through poor planning and execution this was evidently not the case.

[Kel Riever]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

I would bet money that at least a third of the BioWare staff smokes weed. More of them probably cross streets not at the intersections and sometimes listen to youtube songs they will never purchase.

I do all that and I'm proud of it.

Lookout!  Mystery police might be on their way to come give you a stern talking to right now!

[The Heretic of Time]

Kel Riever wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

I would bet money that at least a third of the BioWare staff smokes weed. More of them probably cross streets not at the intersections and sometimes listen to youtube songs they will never purchase.

I do all that and I'm proud of it.

Lookout!  Mystery police might be on their way to come give you a stern talking to right now!

Why? All of that stuff is legal in my country (well, I dunno about the crossing the street at random places though, I suppose that's not legal, but then again, the police are a bunch of p*ssies in this country).

[Jadebaby]

chemiclord wrote...

Well... you should acknowledge it because... like it or not... it IS their story. It is THEIR world. Not yours. It's a bit of undue arrogance whenever a fan actually thinks they can say to a creator, "I know your world better than you", even IF you think it's true... hell even if it IS true.

You are under no obligation to like what you are given. But you should at least be willing to respect the person who gave it to you. Your own personal ending wouldn't exist without them.

While the end of that is true, you act as if BioWare is a person. The only difference between a fan and a writer is that one is employeed by the company and one is not (just ask John Dombrow). So "respecting the person who gave it to you" is a bit harder in these situations than say, thanking Bryce Courtenay for The Power Of One. Especially considering that two thirds of the people who made the first game didn't make the last and around half of them don't even work for the company anymore.

Modifié par Jadebaby, 11 juillet 2013 - 05:57 .

[chemiclord]

iakus wrote...

There used to be threads like that.

Not so much anymore, they get locked quick.

One thing I'll say about the Dragon Age team: Keeping silent about the game is probably the best policy.

A couple problems with those threads though:

The vast majority of Bioware's "lies" would have been damn near impossible to prove conclusively, as it required a LOT of very intentional interpretation to turn them into lies or insults by Bioware.  You had to read them a very specific way with the INTENT of being insulted (the "No ABC" promise is an example of this... you'd be hard pressed reading the entire statement in context to prove that Hudson was definitively promising that there wouldn't be some sort of "final choice" mechanic).

The few that WERE blatant needed to be pushed a lot harder than on Bioware's official forums.  THAT is what should have been filed with the FTC (and as a matter of fact, the FTC basically SAID some of the statements were intentionally misleading, but didn't pertain to the claim filed to them).

And yes, especially right now, I think silence is Bioware's best policy.  They're already on thin ice as far as I'm concerned.

Modifié par chemiclord, 11 juillet 2013 - 07:13 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Imanol de Tafalla wrote...

Ugh, it would be a terrible day for Bioware if they were to cave in and retcon the entire ME trilogy in order to appease some over-entitled whiners with excruciatingly painful rectal discomfort.

Yeah, it would be so terrible to retcon this ******-poor inconsistent mess of a story in order to create something new and hopefully better. Really, a terrible day indeed.

[chemiclord]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Yeah, it would be so terrible to retcon this ******-poor inconsistent mess of a story in order to create something new and hopefully better. Really, a terrible day indeed.

I dunno that it would be a TERRIBLE day, but I'm not sure I'd want to continue writing in a world where fans felt that if they collectively screamed loudly and longly enough that I could be forced to change content I made to suit them.

I do believe there is a line that can be crossed between honest critique and spiteful bullying.  I'd rather not encourage the latter.

Modifié par chemiclord, 11 juillet 2013 - 07:18 .

[Kel Riever]

@Heretic_Hanar: Well, I guess that's the trade off. Here, we have functional police. And sometimes those functional police like to try to prove there's a reason they have a job

[Reorte]

chemiclord wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Yeah, it would be so terrible to retcon this ******-poor inconsistent mess of a story in order to create something new and hopefully better. Really, a terrible day indeed.

I dunno that it would be a TERRIBLE day, but I'm not sure I'd want to continue writing in a world where fans felt that if they collectively screamed loudly and longly enough that I could be forced to change content I made to suit them.

I do believe there is a line that can be crossed between honest critique and spiteful bullying.  I'd rather not encourage the latter.

The danger is using that as an excuse to avoid admitting that you might've made a mistake and that your work could be better. With enough people able to give their opinion and interested in what you're doing it's impossible to screw something up without some people crossing the line.

[The Heretic of Time]

chemiclord wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Yeah, it would be so terrible to retcon this ******-poor inconsistent mess of a story in order to create something new and hopefully better. Really, a terrible day indeed.

I dunno that it would be a TERRIBLE day, but I'm not sure I'd want to continue writing in a world where fans felt that if they collectively screamed loudly and longly enough that I could be forced to change content I made to suit them.

I do believe there is a line that can be crossed between honest critique and spiteful bullying.  I'd rather not encourage the latter.

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. When ME3 was first released I did not demand or even expect BioWare ot change anything, not even the ending. I did however think the game was absolute crap and I have every single right to say so.

There is nothing wrong with criticising a product, especially when the product is bad and the critique is legit.

Demanding the developers to change the product to suit your needs however, is an entirely different thing, especially when the product in question is a piece of art (though I hate to admit it, even that piece of crap ME3 is essentially a piece of art). People who scream "BIOWARE CHANGE THE ENDINGS OR ELSE....!!!!" are a little bit too entitled for their own good if you ask me.

[Reorte]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Demanding the developers to change the product to suit your needs however, is an entirely different thing, especially when the product in question is a piece of art (though I hate to admit it, even that piece of crap ME3 is essentially a piece of art). People who scream "BIOWARE CHANGE THE ENDINGS OR ELSE....!!!!" are a little bit too entitled for their own good if you ask me.

Depends what they're saying for the "Else" part. If it's "I'm not going to buy any more of your games if this is isn't fixed" then that's fair enough. If it's "I'm going to find out where you live and beat you up" then the person needs to see the inside of a padded cell.

[CronoDragoon]

Reorte wrote...
Depends what they're saying for the "Else" part. If it's "I'm not going to buy any more of your games if this is isn't fixed" then that's fair enough. If it's "I'm going to find out where you live and beat you up" then the person needs to see the inside of a padded cell.

In another way, the "or else" is a bit beside the point for a lot of this type of entitlement. I think chemiclord has the most problem with people who don't believe they even need to make ultimatums, because their view has a right to be counted in the act of creation. Thus, it's not "change this or else" it's "change this because I said so."

[Farangbaa]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

I would bet money that at least a third of the BioWare staff smokes weed. More of them probably cross streets not at the intersections and sometimes listen to youtube songs they will never purchase.

I do all that and I'm proud of it.

Lookout!  Mystery police might be on their way to come give you a stern talking to right now!

Why? All of that stuff is legal in my country (well, I dunno about the crossing the street at random places though, I suppose that's not legal, but then again, the police are a bunch of p*ssies in this country).

Hah, I know where you live

[Reorte]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Reorte wrote...
Depends what they're saying for the "Else" part. If it's "I'm not going to buy any more of your games if this is isn't fixed" then that's fair enough. If it's "I'm going to find out where you live and beat you up" then the person needs to see the inside of a padded cell.

In another way, the "or else" is a bit beside the point for a lot of this type of entitlement. I think chemiclord has the most problem with people who don't believe they even need to make ultimatums, because their view has a right to be counted in the act of creation. Thus, it's not "change this or else" it's "change this because I said so."

I think I see where you're coming from but I also think that attitude often gets misrepresented and used to attack people unhappy with ME3.

[.50CalBrainSurgeon]

No offense intended, but I think this question is rather moot because of this consideration: What's to stop players from coming up with their own endings?
Really? What's Bioware going to do? Crack down and ban all the ME3 ending fanfiction out there? I think not.

[Farangbaa]

.50CalBrainSurgeon wrote...

No offense intended, but I think this question is rather moot because of this consideration: What's to stop players from coming up with their own endings?
Really? What's Bioware going to do? Crack down and ban all the ME3 ending fanfiction out there? I think not.

As has been mentioned before: they could. They just don't. But they have every legal option to do so, and close to none of the people making mods would be able to deal with the financial consequences if they did. 

Again, like mentioned before in this topic: the Crono Trigger remake. Which I was really looking forward to. But Square said "noooooo" , so it didn't happen.

[Armass81]

Seboist wrote...

More dev time wouldn't have changed anything other than less bugs and possibly more side quests with actual content instead of pac-man planetscan.

You can't expect quality story telling from the same people who thought lazarus,space terminator and creating a middle entry that's not only pointless to the overarching story but pointless in the context of itself(ex. loyalty missions) to be good ideas.

Hey If I were in charge of ME, id gladly go back and redo ME2 and ME3.

[Seboist]

Armass81 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

More dev time wouldn't have changed anything other than less bugs and possibly more side quests with actual content instead of pac-man planetscan.

You can't expect quality story telling from the same people who thought lazarus,space terminator and creating a middle entry that's not only pointless to the overarching story but pointless in the context of itself(ex. loyalty missions) to be good ideas.

Hey If I were in charge of ME, id gladly go back and redo ME2 and ME3.

That's the proper attitude.

I'd change a few things about ME1 as well though, like giving the Council a more serious portrayal.

[jtav]

And fan created works are a legal gray area. I'd direct anyone interested to the Organization for Transformative Work. There is an argument to be made that at least some are sufficiently transformative as to be covered by fair use.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Seboist wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

More dev time wouldn't have changed anything other than less bugs and possibly more side quests with actual content instead of pac-man planetscan.

You can't expect quality story telling from the same people who thought lazarus,space terminator and creating a middle entry that's not only pointless to the overarching story but pointless in the context of itself(ex. loyalty missions) to be good ideas.

Hey If I were in charge of ME, id gladly go back and redo ME2 and ME3.

That's the proper attitude.

I'd change a few things about ME1 as well though, like giving the Council a more serious portrayal.

More than a few things, I'd say. I'd start by burning that God-awful inventory system.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 12 juillet 2013 - 12:13 .

[CronoDragoon]

Reorte wrote...

I think I see where you're coming from but I also think that attitude often gets misrepresented and used to attack people unhappy with ME3.

Probably. It's not an internet argument if a side doesn't get misrepresented at some point. On the other hand, I would say it's pretty easy to distinguish people criticizing ME3 and people criticizing BioWare for not changing the endings to what they wanted.

This is actually why I fully support the idea behind MEHEM. There's no real entitlement there, at least not of the above kind. They acknowledged that BW was going to stick with the endings, so they made one of their own to make their story more enjoyable. People used to make mods for BioWare games all the time when toolkits were released; just look at how many custom characters there are for BG2. I think that's actually a pretty healthy and creative thing to do.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 12 juillet 2013 - 03:46 .

[Clayless]

Who is this question aimed at? Us?

If you want to, but it will be Fanon.

That's your answer.