Okay, you would imagine after the Sovereign battle every race would outfit all major spacecrafts with big Thanix Cannons. Why didn't they? I mean, they could have seriously hurt the Reapers in the final battle, and they had 2 years to do it. Mass produce the thing and nobody stands a chance?
What do you think?
Thanix Cannons - Why did almost nobody use them?
Débuté par
ContinentTurtle
, juil. 11 2013 12:31
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#2
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 12:34
Ledgend1221
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"uh mass effect fields wizard did it" - Bethesda biower
#3
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 12:36
RadicalDisconnect
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Better question is, why didn't the Reapers open fire first? ME3 cinematics aren't worth the rendering time put into them.
Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 11 juillet 2013 - 12:37 .
#4
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 12:39
Mcfly616
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What makes you think they could've "seriously hurt" the Reapers? A Collector ship is not a Sovereign class Reaper.
#5
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 12:42
ContinentTurtle
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It's reverse engineered from a Reaper main laser firey weapon (Buffy Speak here), and should be comparable in power, at least relative to the power of the ship's ME core. It should have hit them hard.
#6
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 12:45
Mcfly616
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even still, their shields would be even better suited against something that is engineered from their own technology. We still would've lost, had it not been for the Crucible.ContinentTurtle wrote...
It's reverse engineered from a Reaper main laser firey weapon (Buffy Speak here), and should be comparable in power, at least relative to the power of the ship's ME core. It should have hit them hard.
#7
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 12:59
CrutchCricket
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Assumption based on... what exactly?Mcfly616 wrote...
even still, their shields would be even better suited against something that is engineered from their own technology. We still would've lost, had it not been for the Crucible.
There are no shields in the ME universe that can withstand what Thanix cannons do and armor is almost as weak against it. We know Reaper armor is no adamantium from how easily Sovereign got roflstomped once its shields were down.
Thus, proper use of thanix canons should seriously damage a captial ship, even if it's not a one shot kill like the Collector Ship. The real difficulty would lie in Reaper maneuverability and reaction times as well as the swarms of occuli they have as backup.
But the writers needed to have their space rattle serve some purpose and the cutscene animators were more than willing to use that excuse to leave early that day.
Modifié par CrutchCricket, 11 juillet 2013 - 01:01 .
#8
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 01:03
HellbirdIV
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Basically the cutscenes were made by people who weren't really informed about the lore. That's why Reaper Dreadnoughts are shown flying straight into melee (and I mean literal melee, using their tentacles to punch human ships) even though Sovereign-class Reapers outrange any Citadel warship and standard operating procedure for Dreadnoughts is to be used as long-range artillery.
If the space battles followed the codex lore, we'd have Thanix-armed Dreadnoughts and Cruisers firing on Reaper ships from outside of visual range, basically turning the cutscenes into lots of red and blue laser beams passing eachother in the void of space with none of the ships that fired them visible.
If the space battles followed the codex lore, we'd have Thanix-armed Dreadnoughts and Cruisers firing on Reaper ships from outside of visual range, basically turning the cutscenes into lots of red and blue laser beams passing eachother in the void of space with none of the ships that fired them visible.
#9
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 01:04
KenLyns
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Thanix cannon power still depends on barrel length and eezo core size.
It is noted in the codex that 4 dreadnaughts can collapse a Sovereign-class Reaper's shields. The problem is there are far more Sovereign-class Reapers (over 2000 shown in ME2's ending cinematic) than dreadnaughts.
It is noted in the codex that 4 dreadnaughts can collapse a Sovereign-class Reaper's shields. The problem is there are far more Sovereign-class Reapers (over 2000 shown in ME2's ending cinematic) than dreadnaughts.
#10
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 01:09
DeinonSlayer
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We also wouldn't have "thanix missiles," would have waited days for Sword/Shield/Hammer to traverse the Sol Relay (in all likelihood, they would have instead gathered at Arcturus and flew to Sol via FTL over about two days) and the Quarian fleet would have been depicted on the far side of the sun from Rannoch, using gravitational slingshot to target the Geth. Only the Geth fleet is positioned to actually burn up in Rannoch's atmosphere if destroyed.HellbirdIV wrote...
Basically the cutscenes were made by people who weren't really informed about the lore. That's why Reaper Dreadnoughts are shown flying straight into melee (and I mean literal melee, using their tentacles to punch human ships) even though Sovereign-class Reapers outrange any Citadel warship and standard operating procedure for Dreadnoughts is to be used as long-range artillery.
If the space battles followed the codex lore, we'd have Thanix-armed Dreadnoughts and Cruisers firing on Reaper ships from outside of visual range, basically turning the cutscenes into lots of red and blue laser beams passing eachother in the void of space with none of the ships that fired them visible.
Not that Mass Effect is alone - NOBODY does space battles right in film. Who else here got a laugh out of the Enterprise "falling" from the Moon to the Earth in the latest Star Trek movie? It's hard enough to get from one to the other using a calculated flight path (think Apollo 13).
:lol:
Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 11 juillet 2013 - 01:11 .
#12
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 01:23
Mcfly616
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I'm not the one assuming anything. I'm stating facts. You on the other hand....CrutchCricket wrote...
Assumption based on... what exactly?Mcfly616 wrote...
even still, their shields would be even better suited against something that is engineered from their own technology. We still would've lost, had it not been for the Crucible.
There are no shields in the ME universe that can withstand what Thanix cannons do and armor is almost as weak against it. We know Reaper armor is no adamantium from how easily Sovereign got roflstomped once its shields were down.
Thus, proper use of thanix canons should seriously damage a captial ship, even if it's not a one shot kill like the Collector Ship. The real difficulty would lie in Reaper maneuverability and reaction times as well as the swarms of occuli they have as backup.
But the writers needed to have their space rattle serve some purpose and the cutscene animators were more than willing to use that excuse to leave early that day.
First, as you stated, Sovereign wasn't so bad "once its shields were down". But in reality it took a whole fleet on while its shields were up. Well, it would take a handful of dreadnaughts to take down a single Reapers shields down. Our dreadnaughts are completely outnumbered by the Reaper Capital ships. And lastly, it is stated over and over and over that the Reapers are not going to be beaten conventionally (as if it wasnt obvious enough). They have been doing this for a billion years and have never failed. I'm pretty sure anything conventional is out the window.
Modifié par Mcfly616, 11 juillet 2013 - 01:50 .
#13
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 01:48
ContinentTurtle
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Sure, but if we failed at docking the crucible, we would have at least dealt massive casualties (relatively) to Reaper forces. They have never met this kind of resistance. And I seriously doubt all 2000 Reapers were stationed around Earth. I would guess 500, 1000 tops.
#14
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 01:53
Mcfly616
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why do you assume we would've dealt "massive casualties"? As stated, it takes multiple dreadnaughts to take down a Reaper and we are severely outnumbered.ContinentTurtle wrote...
Sure, but if we failed at docking the crucible, we would have at least dealt massive casualties (relatively) to Reaper forces. They have never met this kind of resistance. And I seriously doubt all 2000 Reapers were stationed around Earth. I would guess 500, 1000 tops.
#15
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 01:53
Jorji Costava
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Well, this is a bit tangential, but I'd just like to point out that sometimes, lore consistency has to give way to visual storytelling. My favorite example of this is Das Boot, the German movie about a WWII U-boat crew considered by many to be one of the best and most realistic war movies ever made.
One guy who didn't feel this way was Lothar-Günter Buchheim, the journalist who wrote the book on which Das Boot was based. He pointed out that in one scene, several bolts pop out of their sockets while the submarine is diving below recommended depth; in real life, a single exploding bolt would probably have caused a panic. But the reason director Wolfgang Peterson filmed it the way he did was simply because it was more cinematic; having a crew member simply say "Oh no! One of the bolts is starting to come loose. If it pops out then we're in real trouble!" is just not the most dramatic or cinematic way of communicating to the audience that the characters are in a dangerous situation.
In short, if you had to make a list of all the things that have to go right to make for a good film or game, it would probably include (but not be limited to) stuff like theme, characterization, tone, gameplay/visuals, and plot/lore consistency. My impression is that the last of these items usually hangs out near the bottom of the list of priorities for most writers and developers, and I can't say I entirely blame them.
One guy who didn't feel this way was Lothar-Günter Buchheim, the journalist who wrote the book on which Das Boot was based. He pointed out that in one scene, several bolts pop out of their sockets while the submarine is diving below recommended depth; in real life, a single exploding bolt would probably have caused a panic. But the reason director Wolfgang Peterson filmed it the way he did was simply because it was more cinematic; having a crew member simply say "Oh no! One of the bolts is starting to come loose. If it pops out then we're in real trouble!" is just not the most dramatic or cinematic way of communicating to the audience that the characters are in a dangerous situation.
In short, if you had to make a list of all the things that have to go right to make for a good film or game, it would probably include (but not be limited to) stuff like theme, characterization, tone, gameplay/visuals, and plot/lore consistency. My impression is that the last of these items usually hangs out near the bottom of the list of priorities for most writers and developers, and I can't say I entirely blame them.
#16
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 01:57
o Ventus
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Mcfly616 wrote...
What makes you think they could've "seriously hurt" the Reapers? A Collector ship is not a Sovereign class Reaper.
Because they bypass kinetic barriers and have anti-armor capabilities?
#17
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 01:57
teh DRUMPf!!
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D00d.... NO!
l2r
Mass Effect 3 Codex wrote...
After the Battle of the Citadel, human and turian volunteers spent three months clearing the station's orbit of debris. During the cleanup, the turians secretly salvaged Sovereign's powerful main gun along with much of the weapon's element zero core. Eleven months later, the turians introduced the Thanix, a scaled-down version of the weapon.The Thanix's core is a liquid alloy of iron, uranium, and tungsten suspended in an electromagnetic field powered by element zero. The molten metal, accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targets with enough force to pierce any known shield or armor. The gun can fire reliably every five seconds.The weapon's relatively small size allows it to be mounted on most fighters or frigates. It is now widely used by the Alliance military and is the primary weapon on the refurbished Normandy SR-2.
l2r
Modifié par HYR 2.0, 11 juillet 2013 - 01:58 .
#18
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 01:59
o Ventus
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Yeah, it's so widely used that it's seen approximately zero times.
#19
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 02:00
Kataphrut94
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Supposedly they did, according to the Codex. We just don't see it in cutscenes, presumably for visual design reasons or some such.
Besides, given the power of the Reapers, I seriously doubt one weapon is enough to make that significant a difference in battle. They still have the armour, the shields, their own Thanix cannons, the size, the force and the waves upon waves of indoctrinated soldiers at their disposal. The Thanix cannon isn't even necessary to destroy the Collector Ship - Javelin torpedoes can do it too, just not as efficiently.
Besides, given the power of the Reapers, I seriously doubt one weapon is enough to make that significant a difference in battle. They still have the armour, the shields, their own Thanix cannons, the size, the force and the waves upon waves of indoctrinated soldiers at their disposal. The Thanix cannon isn't even necessary to destroy the Collector Ship - Javelin torpedoes can do it too, just not as efficiently.
#20
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 02:07
o Ventus
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Kataphrut94 wrote...
Supposedly they did, according to the Codex. We just don't see it in cutscenes, presumably for visual design reasons or some such.
"Visual design reasons"? Are you seriously trying to defend this?
Besides, given the power of the Reapers, I seriously doubt one weapon is enough to make that significant a difference in battle. They still have the armour, the shields, their own Thanix cannons, the size, the force and the waves upon waves of indoctrinated soldiers at their disposal. The Thanix cannon isn't even necessary to destroy the Collector Ship - Javelin torpedoes can do it too, just not as efficiently.
As I said above, they bore through armor and bypass kinetic barriers, on top of traveling perhaps slightly faster than a mass accelerator round.
The enemy can be as powerful as they want, but when you reverse-engineer their technology and utilize it to your advantage, the fight becomes exponentially easier. See XCOM.
#21
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 02:08
Mcfly616
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doesn't matter much. They're outnumbered. That's like saying: "oh, we have a bunch of anti-armor rockets to combat an army of tanks, but there's way more tanks than we have rockets." Meaning, you're still gonna lose.o Ventus wrote...
Mcfly616 wrote...
What makes you think they could've "seriously hurt" the Reapers? A Collector ship is not a Sovereign class Reaper.
Because they bypass kinetic barriers and have anti-armor capabilities?
Modifié par Mcfly616, 11 juillet 2013 - 02:09 .
#22
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 02:12
o Ventus
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Mcfly616 wrote...
doesn't matter much. They're outnumbered. That's like saying: "oh, we have a bunch of anti-armor rockets to combat an army of tanks, but there's way more tanks than we have rockets." Meaning, you're still gonna lose.o Ventus wrote...
Mcfly616 wrote...
What makes you think they could've "seriously hurt" the Reapers? A Collector ship is not a Sovereign class Reaper.
Because they bypass kinetic barriers and have anti-armor capabilities?
And? We've readily shown to be able to beat them in short-term engagements. An army of 10,000 Thanix cannons will still inflict significant damage to a similarly sized Reaper fleet. Add in GARDIAN lasers and small fighters against Reaper Occuli and the Reapers will be too busy trying to take out our smaller ships.
#23
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 02:18
teh DRUMPf!!
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o Ventus wrote...
Yeah, it's so widely used that it's seen approximately zero times.
D00d... NOOO!!!
Do your research.
#24
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 02:26
o Ventus
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What's in that picture doesn't even look like a Thanix shot.
#25
Posté 11 juillet 2013 - 02:27
AlexMBrennan
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And all guns have a redundant second barrel. 99% of ME is rule of cool, and the reason we got the cinematic space fight is because the powers that be decided that it looks cool, no matter how retarded it actually is.Yeah, it's so widely used that it's seen approximately zero times.
Trying to argue that information from such cinematics supersedes lore (e.g. from the codex) is idiotic because you'd have to similarly conclude that all of biology (Grunt the pure krogan), cryptography (Reaper IFF) and physics (short-range space guns in ME3*) is wrong.
* The plan to have a fleet protect the crucible is idiotic because every Reaper can immediately open fire on the Crucible as soon as it arrives; short of having allied ships "take the bullet" there is nothing they can do to protect it - how long do you think a dreadnought would last under concentrated fire from the entire Reaper fleet?
The writers are clearly thinking of naval battles back when you had ships of the line formations, and didn't have to worry about things such as the third dimension, indirect fire weapons and ships which can outrun bullets.
