285 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

Last I checked it wasn't "citizens" that directly decided matters of military spending.

Oh wait. It's David.

Disengaging.

[David7204]

Do you understand the concept of 'hindsight bias'?

When you purchase a lottery ticket, you're statistically likely to lose a certain expected amount of money. If you buy a lottery ticket and win, that doesn't make buying a lottery ticket a smart decision. It just makes it a lucky decision.

Does that mean you 'should' have bought that lottery ticket? Yes, you 'should' have, because you win a lot of money. But you only know that in hindsight.

[David7204]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Last I checked it wasn't "citizens" that directly decided matters of military spending.

Oh wait. It's David.

Disengaging.

Really? Where was it that militaries get their income, again?

[Tron Mega]

David7204 wrote...

Do you understand the concept of 'hindsight bias'?

When you purchase a lottery ticket, you're statistically likely to lose a certain expected amount of money. If you buy a lottery ticket and win, that doesn't make buying a lottery ticket a smart decision. It just makes it a lucky decision.

Does that mean you 'should' have bought that lottery ticket? Yes, you 'should' have, because you win a lot of money. But you only know that in hindsight.

a metaphor.

thats all you got for me?

[David7204]

LineHolder wrote...

I dont know what sort of utopia this guy lives in where he directly has a say on what weaponry his govt spends on and how much he is taxed for it.

Any government that decides to demand such taxation from it's citizens is not going to be a government for very long.

[David7204]

Tron Mega wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Do you understand the concept of 'hindsight bias'?

When you purchase a lottery ticket, you're statistically likely to lose a certain expected amount of money. If you buy a lottery ticket and win, that doesn't make buying a lottery ticket a smart decision. It just makes it a lucky decision.

Does that mean you 'should' have bought that lottery ticket? Yes, you 'should' have, because you win a lot of money. But you only know that in hindsight.

a metaphor.

thats all you got for me?

Yes. Reason is all I have for you. Do you have any reasoning for me on why citizens should nod and smile to handing over two or four or ten times as much taxation to pay for a super-fleet when the only real evidence you have is the Citadel being attacked by a big ship?

[Tron Mega]

David7204 wrote...

LineHolder wrote...

I dont know what sort of utopia this guy lives in where he directly has a say on what weaponry his govt spends on and how much he is taxed for it.

Any government that decides to demand such taxation from it's citizens is not going to be a government for very long.

becuase sooner or later the reapers will come so might as well jump off a bridge now.

[Kataphrut94]

Give the Council some slack; how many of you can say you'd believe Shepard about the Reapers from the get-go, not having spoken to Sovereign or Vigil or having seen anything to suggest Sovereign was more than a big geth warship? Be honest.

Getting back to Thanix cannons, why are they the only things from Mass Effect 2 people seem to care about? That Silaris heavy ship armour could block heat weapons like those Occulus blasts. Get that stuff mass produced and you could have cruisers that can stand up to a Reaper laser!

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

You all need to remember that the ships are built around the guns. The engines, hull, and other systems are built to accommodate the gun, not the other way around. You can't just swap out such weapons like legos.

Only dreadnoughts.

[o Ventus]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

Give the Council some slack; how many of you can say you'd believe Shepard about the Reapers from the get-go, not having spoken to Sovereign or Vigil or having seen anything to suggest Sovereign was more than a big geth warship? Be honest.

There's the whole "Sovereign doesn't even remotely look like anything resembling geth tech", after spending an entire game looking at and dismantling geth tech. There's also the whole "to to Ilos and see for yourselves" bit. It isn't like Vigil would be the only archive.

Getting back to Thanix cannons, why are they the only things from Mass Effect 2 people seem to care about? That Silaris heavy ship armour could block heat weapons like those Occulus blasts. Get that stuff mass produced and you could have cruisers that can stand up to a Reaper laser!

The Normandy's Silaris armor is at least directly mentioned in ME3. The only thing visually distinguishing Silaris armor from "normal" armor is that Silaris armor is kind of yellow looking. 

Modifié par o Ventus, 11 juillet 2013 - 07:29 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Get that stuff mass produced and you could have cruisers that can stand up to a Reaper laser!

Ironically, if you had paid more attention to the Thanix weapon codex entry you would know that the Reapers do not, in fact, use lasers. At huge expense, you have protected your fleet from a very minor threat. Brilliant.

[Kataphrut94]

o Ventus wrote...

Kataphrut94 wrote...

Give the Council some slack; how many of you can say you'd believe Shepard about the Reapers from the get-go, not having spoken to Sovereign or Vigil or having seen anything to suggest Sovereign was more than a big geth warship? Be honest.

There's the whole "Sovereign doesn't even remotely look like anything resembling geth tech", after spending an entire game looking at and dismantling geth tech. There's also the whole "to to Ilos and see for yourselves" bit. It isn't like Vigil would be the only archive.

Apparently they did check out Vigil, but everything was powered down. Even if they believed it, it still wouldn't constitute proof. And Sovereign does look fairly geth-like, or more accurately the geth ships look fairly Sovereign-like. The geth appear to have taken a lot of design cues from the Reapers, no doubt as a form of worship. He's certainly more advanced, but I can see how the Council would assume he's just their most powerful ship.

[RadicalDisconnect]

Does no one here remember that the Reaper weapons outrange anything we have? Our chances will not improve much if the Reapers still have the first shot and better fire control systems. The fact that the cutscenes show that we're firing (and hitting) Reapers before they even return fire is ludicrous. As I said, cutscenes aren't worth their rendering time, so we can't even tell if Thanix weaponry is being used just based on cutscenes.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 11 juillet 2013 - 07:40 .

[Kataphrut94]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Get that stuff mass produced and you could have cruisers that can stand up to a Reaper laser!

Ironically, if you had paid more attention to the Thanix weapon codex entry you would know that the Reapers do not, in fact, use lasers. At huge expense, you have protected your fleet from a very minor threat. Brilliant.

No, but they can resist extreme heat and kinetic energy weaponry, which is what the Thanix cannon is. I know that's what the Reapers use, I just prefer the term 'lasers' to 'accelerated super-heated moltern metal streams'.

[o Ventus]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

Apparently they did check out Vigil, but everything was powered down. Even if they believed it, it still wouldn't constitute proof. And Sovereign does look fairly geth-like, or more accurately the geth ships look fairly Sovereign-like. The geth appear to have taken a lot of design cues from the Reapers, no doubt as a form of worship. He's certainly more advanced, but I can see how the Council would assume he's just their most powerful ship.

I guess it's a good thing I didn't suggest they check Vigil, then.

[HellbirdIV]

o Ventus wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You all need to remember that the ships are built around the guns. The engines, hull, and other systems are built to accommodate the gun, not the other way around. You can't just swap out such weapons like legos.

Only dreadnoughts.

At that, the Volus Dreadnought Kwunu and Salarian Stealth Dreadnoughts are all stated to have Thanix weaponry.

[Redbelle]

They had their cannon's. They just weren't calibrated.

[katamuro]

It was one of the things they did to nerfe the ships and fleets. No one used them because they were powerful enough to actually hurt the reapers. Also the same was done with all the Alliances fleet and turian ones. In ME2 it was clearly stated that Alliance lost just 8 cruisers and Turians lost 20 cruisers.

Also at the start of ME3 when we see the ship firing at a reaper in Vancouver it is a cruiser not a dreadnaught. Considering the scale we see them at it is too small for a 1km long dreadnaught.

[o Ventus]

katamuro wrote...

Also at the start of ME3 when we see the ship firing at a reaper in Vancouver it is a cruiser not a dreadnaught. Considering the scale we see them at it is too small for a 1km long dreadnaught.

We know. It's a cruiser. It was an oversight, and Bioware admitted as much.

[katamuro]

Basically what I am saying is that to force the "we cant defeat them conventionally" and the whole Catalyst scenario they had to make all the fleets and ships much weaker than before.

Also the Rannoch bit where we have a laser to shoot the Reaper, if the fleets in orbit really were shooting down to an area where the Reaper was it would have blanketed the area and killed Shepard too. Also the force of the shots would have been way more than the little explosions we saw. The scene always bugged me.

[Display Name Owner]

It's a while since I played or read the Codex, but I thought the only reason any Reaper suffered any damage whatsoever was the use of Thannix Cannons. That Reaper that got it's leg taken off in one blow in the big battle cutscene can't have been from anything else surely.

It's not like Thannix Cannons alone were ever going to come close to turning the tide anyway. The Reapers have the same weapon. In fact, the Thannix is a miniaturised and therefore probably less powerful version. Plus I remember the Codex saying the Reapers have longer range and more precise targeting, making their weapons considerably more effective anyway.

[katamuro]

We never see anyone firing a thanix cannon. also considering the fleet has several ships per a reaper. All we see is reapers hit by the normal cannons. Also even on full attack we only see reapers have a single beam.

[Mcfly616]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...
I'm not the one assuming anything. I'm stating facts.

Really? In that case, you won't mind this:

Mcfly616 wrote...
even still, their shields would be even better suited against something that is engineered from their own technology.

Source?

First, as you stated, Sovereign wasn't so bad "once its shields were down". But in reality it took a whole fleet on while its shields were up.

With, for lack of a better term "conventional" weaponry and two-three year old weaponry at that (relative to ME3). Also someone else posted that official estimates are 4 dreadnaughts to take down a Reaper, assuming it doesn't have backup like say a whole damn geth fleet. But don't let such technicalities get in your way.

Well, it would take a handful of dreadnaughts to take down a single Reapers shields down. Our dreadnaughts are completely outnumbered by the Reaper Capital ships.

Using "conventional" weaponry. And numbers aren't the issue being discussed  here, the capabilities of the thanix weapon are. A gun will still kill even if its wielder is outnumbered.

And lastly, it is stated over and over and over that the Reapers are not going to be beaten conventionally (as if it wasnt obvious enough). They have been doing this for a billion years and have never failed. I'm pretty sure anything conventional is out the window.

Ah the rallying cry of defenders of this atrocious drivel that fails to pass for an ending. Don't worry, no one's attacking your precious artistic integrity (my disdain for it notwithstanding). A lie (or in ths case a mistake) repeated over and over doesn't become right, just because someone won't shut up about it. And though I hadn't intended it this way, classfying thanix canons as unconventional weapons gets around this silly restriction.

Regardless, the point wasn't that thanix canons would win the day by themselves, but rather that they should've been better displayed visually and more importantly, should've been reflected in the lore as greater casualties on the Reaper side. Or hell, even explicitly stated that thanix-bearing ships were priority targets for the Reapers because of the heightened threat they faced, if you insist on making it so one-sided.

its funny how much your posts demonstrate your state of denial.

You deliberately reject the facts the game gives you, all in favor of what you'd rather believe. But it's no sweat off my back. If purposefully being wrong makes you feel better, by all means please continue