279 réponses à ce sujet

[Eryri]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

What about Control is not believable? Seems pretty straightforward: reprogramming synthetics.

Personally, I dislike the way that Shepard's "soul" (for want of a better word) can be almost instantaneously sucked (or copied) out of his brain, down his arms, and through his hands into a pair of electrified joysticks, while he is simultaneously being burnt to ashes. I can't really understand why anyone would include an incredibly accurate and rapid brain scanner (calibrated for human brains, mark you), into either this ancient weapon's plans, or the Citadel. 

While lots of good sci-fi has this sort of conceit, it's never really come up in ME, apart from that obscure side story about the race of aliens uploaded into the computer systems of a dying vessel, which I didn't even know about until after completing the game. Overlord doesn't really count, as David never left his body, he was physically wired up to the machine. It's insufficiently foreshadowed to be believable.

Actually the only foreshadowing we have is negative, as Edi informs us that copying an AI from one substrate to another, inevitably alters its personality.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

ALone, badly injured, not getting up, and in a hidden part of the Citadel, where apparantly everyone but a now-Force Sensistive LI have given up on Shep.

This is just making it pointlessly dark. We all know Shepard is going to get dragged out of the rubble. Don't even delude yourself.

No, that's an accurate picture of what we are shown.  If you wnat to paint rainbows on top of it, be my guess.  Just remember it's headcanon/fanfiction/alltheotherstuffpeople saytomockMEHEM

Morocco Mole is using normal interpretation, not painting rainbows. If those scenes had been in a movie or TV show everyone would have known they meant that Shepard survived and would be rescued. Well, everyone except a few idiots.

I've never quite understood why you're using an interpretative method that doesn't have any advantages. You don't get Bio's intent for the scene right and you make yourself feel worse about the ending. What's the upside?

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 juillet 2013 - 08:59 .

[sveners]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

ALone, badly injured, not getting up, and in a hidden part of the Citadel, where apparantly everyone but a now-Force Sensistive LI have given up on Shep.

This is just making it pointlessly dark. We all know Shepard is going to get dragged out of the rubble. Don't even delude yourself.

No, that's an accurate picture of what we are shown.  If you wnat to paint rainbows on top of it, be my guess.  Just remember it's headcanon/fanfiction/alltheotherstuffpeople saytomockMEHEM

Morocco Mole is using normal interpretation, not painting rainbows. If those scenes had been in a movie or TV show everyone would have known they meant that Shepard survived and would be rescued. Well, everyone except a few idiots.

I've never quite understood why you're using an interpretative method that doesn't have any advantages. You don't get Bio's intent for the scene right and you make yourself feel worse about the ending. What's the upside?

I don't get this. I honestly don't.

So.... Shepard lives, because Shepard lives? Yes, the gasp is probably supposed to give us a glimmer of hope, or something.. but did your brain just stop after that? "Oh a breath, thank god he/she's ok" ?

Because there is no scenario where Shepard actually gets off that hunk of spacedebris after that endgame beating, without some incredible feats of mental gymnastics.

Using an interpretative method? Jesus, he just described exactly what the game shows us. There is no interpretation there.

[Seboist]

I'd like to think it's Clone Shepard who takes the breath and then proceeds to get some from the original Shepard's waifu/manfu.

[Iakus]

sveners wrote...

I don't get this. I honestly don't.

So.... Shepard lives, because Shepard lives? Yes, the gasp is probably supposed to give us a glimmer of hope, or something.. but did your brain just stop after that? "Oh a breath, thank god he/she's ok" ?

Because there is no scenario where Shepard actually gets off that hunk of spacedebris after that endgame beating, without some incredible feats of mental gymnastics.

Using an interpretative method? Jesus, he just described exactly what the game shows us. There is no interpretation there.

This human gets it.

[MegaSovereign]

sveners wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

ALone, badly injured, not getting up, and in a hidden part of the Citadel, where apparantly everyone but a now-Force Sensistive LI have given up on Shep.

This is just making it pointlessly dark. We all know Shepard is going to get dragged out of the rubble. Don't even delude yourself.

No, that's an accurate picture of what we are shown.  If you wnat to paint rainbows on top of it, be my guess.  Just remember it's headcanon/fanfiction/alltheotherstuffpeople saytomockMEHEM

Morocco Mole is using normal interpretation, not painting rainbows. If those scenes had been in a movie or TV show everyone would have known they meant that Shepard survived and would be rescued. Well, everyone except a few idiots.

I've never quite understood why you're using an interpretative method that doesn't have any advantages. You don't get Bio's intent for the scene right and you make yourself feel worse about the ending. What's the upside?

I don't get this. I honestly don't.

So.... Shepard lives, because Shepard lives? Yes, the gasp is probably supposed to give us a glimmer of hope, or something.. but did your brain just stop after that? "Oh a breath, thank god he/she's ok" ?

Because there is no scenario where Shepard actually gets off that hunk of spacedebris after that endgame beating, without some incredible feats of mental gymnastics.

Using an interpretative method? Jesus, he just described exactly what the game shows us. There is no interpretation there.

Shepard lives because he is shown to have survived. If you want to headcanon that the weight of the debris kills him off then that's fine.

Your comment is self-contradicting. It doesn't take "incredible feats of mental gymnastics" to interpret it that way if you yourself are saying that it's "supposed to give us a glimmer of hope."

[Favourite store on the CitadeI]

Morocco Mole wrote...

So have you lived under a rock the past year?

And lol at people actually getting depressed over a mediocre videogame ending

How does this mean that the OP's opinion is any less relevant just because they posted it a year later?

[The Heretic of Time]

Seboist wrote...

I'd like to think it's Clone Shepard who takes the breath and then proceeds to get some from the original Shepard's waifu/manfu.

You're stealing my theories Seb. You should give credit where credit's due. I was the first who came up with this idea:

http://social.biowar.../index/16150678

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

sveners wrote...

I don't get this. I honestly don't.

So.... Shepard lives, because Shepard lives? Yes, the gasp is probably supposed to give us a glimmer of hope, or something.. but did your brain just stop after that? "Oh a breath, thank god he/she's ok" ?

Because there is no scenario where Shepard actually gets off that hunk of spacedebris after that endgame beating, without some incredible feats of mental gymnastics.

Using an interpretative method? Jesus, he just described exactly what the game shows us. There is no interpretation there.

This human gets it.

Does he though? Let's say Bioware had shown that same scene, but after Shepard's breath we hear someone say "We found him".

The scene is no more or less probable. All it means is that we saw confirmation of said mental gymnastics. The odds are one in a million of someone finding Shepard, period. If you can believe it because Bioware shows it, how's that any different than Bioware not showing it, but leaving room for someone to believe it?

[Iakus]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Does he though? Let's say Bioware had shown that same scene, but after Shepard's breath we hear someone say "We found him".

The scene is no more or less probable. All it means is that we saw confirmation of said mental gymnastics. The odds are one in a million of someone finding Shepard, period. If you can believe it because Bioware shows it, how's that any different than Bioware not showing it, but leaving room for someone to believe it?

Because that one line fundamentally alters Shepard's condition.  No longer is he/she alone and helpless in an unexplored part of the Citadel.  Someone else found that place.  Somene has called it in.  Help has arrived, and more is coming.  That is no longer mental gymnastics, but confirmed fact.  It may have been a one in a million chance, but that line confirms that Shepard hit that one in a million.,

[MegaSovereign]

It's no more of a confirmation than Shepard taking a breath. You can still be pretty obtuse and say "oh well he probably dies in the hospital because his injuries are too bad." And then said obtuse person would complain about not having a scene at the hospital where Dr. Vosque holds a fancy datapad confirming Shepard will live to die another day.

Unfortunately people interpret things differently. It's not just the breath scene. You still see people arguing that the Geth aren't destroyed because you never see them get destroyed. You still see people argue that the Geth are controlled just like the Reapers in the blue ending. You still see people argue about whether Synthesis brainwashes everyone. And then there's IT which is a whole 'nother can of worms.

There's isn't a one-size fits all but my argument is that if Bioware really intended to keep Shepard's fate incredibly ambiguous they wouldn't have even shown him taking a breath.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 14 juillet 2013 - 11:44 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

We know OP. Though I find them more crap than depressing.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 14 juillet 2013 - 11:43 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Does he though? Let's say Bioware had shown that same scene, but after Shepard's breath we hear someone say "We found him".

The scene is no more or less probable. All it means is that we saw confirmation of said mental gymnastics. The odds are one in a million of someone finding Shepard, period. If you can believe it because Bioware shows it, how's that any different than Bioware not showing it, but leaving room for someone to believe it?

Because that one line fundamentally alters Shepard's condition.  No longer is he/she alone and helpless in an unexplored part of the Citadel.  Someone else found that place.  Somene has called it in.  Help has arrived, and more is coming.  That is no longer mental gymnastics, but confirmed fact.  It may have been a one in a million chance, but that line confirms that Shepard hit that one in a million.,

But again, there is no difference the way you've outlined it.

If you can believe that Shepard hit that one in a million chance because we see it. What's stopping you from choosing the most ideal headcanon available? If you're going to be consistent, that scene should be a problem regardless of what Bioware shows because of how improbable it is.

In both cases, Shepard was/is alone and helpless in some unexplored part of the Citadel, until help showed up.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 15 juillet 2013 - 12:33 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Eryri wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

What about Control is not believable? Seems pretty straightforward: reprogramming synthetics.

Personally, I dislike the way that Shepard's "soul" (for want of a better word) can be almost instantaneously sucked (or copied) out of his brain, down his arms, and through his hands into a pair of electrified joysticks, while he is simultaneously being burnt to ashes. I can't really understand why anyone would include an incredibly accurate and rapid brain scanner (calibrated for human brains, mark you), into either this ancient weapon's plans, or the Citadel. 

While lots of good sci-fi has this sort of conceit, it's never really come up in ME, apart from that obscure side story about the race of aliens uploaded into the computer systems of a dying vessel, which I didn't even know about until after completing the game. Overlord doesn't really count, as David never left his body, he was physically wired up to the machine. It's insufficiently foreshadowed to be believable.

The Reapers?

They are built upon destructive-upload.

BTW, I read some time ago about a team of scientists pursuing human immortality through this same means -- to upload the human brain into an artificial body -- shooting for completion by 2045. Not too far-fetched for 2186 sci-fi.

[Mad-Hamlet]

Print and write your name, frame it, put it on the wall, show it to all your friends.

[Iakus]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

iakus wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Does he though? Let's say Bioware had shown that same scene, but after Shepard's breath we hear someone say "We found him".

The scene is no more or less probable. All it means is that we saw confirmation of said mental gymnastics. The odds are one in a million of someone finding Shepard, period. If you can believe it because Bioware shows it, how's that any different than Bioware not showing it, but leaving room for someone to believe it?

Because that one line fundamentally alters Shepard's condition.  No longer is he/she alone and helpless in an unexplored part of the Citadel.  Someone else found that place.  Somene has called it in.  Help has arrived, and more is coming.  That is no longer mental gymnastics, but confirmed fact.  It may have been a one in a million chance, but that line confirms that Shepard hit that one in a million.,

But again, there is no difference the way you've outlined it.

If you can believe that Shepard hit that one in a million chance because we see it. What's stopping you from choosing the most ideal headcanon available? If you're going to be consistent, that scene should be a problem regardless of what Bioware shows because of how improbable it is.

In both cases, Shepard was/is alone and helpless in some unexplored part of the Citadel, until help showed up.

Why did people believe the relays ruptured like in Arrival?

Why did people think the turians starved in the Sol system?

Why did people think the Normandy was stranded on the jungle planet?

It's because seeing is believing.SHow them bad stuff and bad stuff is what they'll think of.

Pity Bioware rectified those other three scenerios in EC, but not torso-Shepard.

[cerberus1701]

Not at all.

Choose destroy, recover, have Citadel party.

Life is sweet.

[Aesandil]

I didn't expect to see such topic after all this time, but yeah... welcome to the club. This may sting for a longer while.

[Iakus]

Aesandil wrote...

I didn't expect to see such topic after all this time, but yeah... welcome to the club. This may sting for a longer while.

I imagine a bungle like this will haunt Bioware for a long time to come.

[Steelcan]

The intent of the scene is clearly to show Shepard's survival. If he was dead no scene would need to be shown because he is assumed dead. The breathe scene shows his survival. Making the video only to show his death would be redundant.

You are welcome to head canon Shepard's death afterwards if you are so inclined, but the intent if the scene remains the same.

[Oni Changas]

iakus wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

iakus wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Does he though? Let's say Bioware had shown that same scene, but after Shepard's breath we hear someone say "We found him".

The scene is no more or less probable. All it means is that we saw confirmation of said mental gymnastics. The odds are one in a million of someone finding Shepard, period. If you can believe it because Bioware shows it, how's that any different than Bioware not showing it, but leaving room for someone to believe it?

Because that one line fundamentally alters Shepard's condition.  No longer is he/she alone and helpless in an unexplored part of the Citadel.  Someone else found that place.  Somene has called it in.  Help has arrived, and more is coming.  That is no longer mental gymnastics, but confirmed fact.  It may have been a one in a million chance, but that line confirms that Shepard hit that one in a million.,

But again, there is no difference the way you've outlined it.

If you can believe that Shepard hit that one in a million chance because we see it. What's stopping you from choosing the most ideal headcanon available? If you're going to be consistent, that scene should be a problem regardless of what Bioware shows because of how improbable it is.

In both cases, Shepard was/is alone and helpless in some unexplored part of the Citadel, until help showed up.

Why did people believe the relays ruptured like in Arrival?

Why did people think the turians starved in the Sol system?

Why did people think the Normandy was stranded on the jungle planet?

It's because seeing is believing.SHow them bad stuff and bad stuff is what they'll think of.

Pity Bioware rectified those other three scenerios in EC, but not torso-Shepard.

Torso SHepard? PFFT. That was totally an N7 Slayer.