279 réponses à ce sujet

[Eryri]

Alien Number Six wrote...

The ending of ME3 was realistic.

No offence, but I can honestly say that I didn't dislike the endings for being too "realistic". Not when it involves waves of energy that can implant circuitry into trees, and instantly reconcile everyone with the reapers, who then helpfully start rebuilding the cities they were recently destroying with apparently no hard feelings from anyone.

[Iakus]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Dark, "realistic" , moral compromise, honor is for suckers.

Nope. Still not seeing it.

Mass Effect 3 has dark themes. But they aren't that dark. The only times I'd even call the game dark is if you side with the geth or sabotage the genophage with Wrex. And that's it. Thessia is a joke and the endings themselves are nowhere near that level. Even Refuse ends on a very optimistic note with the new cycle defeating the Reapers.

Mass Effect 3 never tries to be realistic in anything. Except maybe "war sucks"

Moral compromise? Bioware can't even write the Renegade path without going into cackling jackass territory. So that's certainly not in there.

Every single ending choice is a moral compromise of some sort (inless you're one of those "cackling renegades" who hate all synthetics, I guess)

Even taking a stand against the Catalyst dooms the galaxy to another cycle.

Red, Green, Blue, all screw up the galaxy.  Bioware just chose to ignore the negative implications to whitewash things.  

And note I put realistic in quotes.  It's not really realistic.  It's just a term the jaded and cynical use to describe railroaded tragedy.

[AlanC9]

Morocco Mole wrote...
Moral compromise? Bioware can't even write the Renegade path without going into cackling jackass territory. So that's certainly not in there. 

Bug, or feature? "Cackling jackass" is what some folks seem to want in their "dark side" runs.

[o Ventus]

Refuse IS nihilistic. Rather, existential nihilism. Shepard callously throws away the lives of a trillion or more people without a second thought. The only non-nihilistic thing about it is that Shepard does it for an arbitrary set of ideals rather ban an overt belief that life has no intrinsic value.

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

Wasn't aware that laughing at a hyperbolic negative comment was the equivalent of trolling. 

And yeah, you're wrong about the bolded because there's a sliding scale of "honor".

There was no hyperbole.

When your chocies are

a) Synthetic holocaust

God-emperor Shepalyst

C) Forcible violation of the genetic code of every living thing.

D) SO BET IT!

There is no honorable outcome that I can see.  And it appears there's a bunch of others who agree, or this thread wouldn't be here

Again, this is not hyperbole, this was in the frakking game!

[MassivelyEffective0730]

iakus wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

iakus wrote...

Game of Thrones is now the Flavor of the Month

Not really getting the Game of Thrones comparison here.

Dark, "realistic" , moral compromise, honor is for suckers.  

Well see, I'm not so upset over that entirely with ME3 so much as in I can't get more from my game for having worked hard for the two prior games. There's no payout or payoff for my effort. There is no fleshed out epilogue. The ending doesn't make narrative or thematic sense with the rest of the trilogy. It doesn't even make sense with itself. And of course, I would like to see it be a bit happier. I'd have liked if destroy didn't feel like I was still fundamentally accepting the Reapers problem. I wish Destroy felt more like a rejection of the Reapers,

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...
What's the working definition of "honor" here? Doing the right thing regardless of the cost, or some such?

I definie it as integrity, being able to adhere to your beliefs.

If you believe in the freedom of the galaxy, that the races should be able to make their own choices, build their own futures and find their own way, you get sucker punched by the ending.

Two of these endings take that freedom away from everyone:  Control and Synthesis.  Destroy  forces you to kill all synthetics in the galaxy, which is the epitome of denying freedom to them.

Then there's refuse, where bioware laughs at you for taking a principled stand.

[Sebby]

o Ventus wrote...

Refuse IS nihilistic. Rather, existential nihilism. Shepard callously throws away the lives of a trillion or more people without a second thought. The only non-nihilistic thing about it is that Shepard does it for an arbitrary set of ideals rather ban an overt belief that life has no intrinsic value.

Nah, Refuse is just plain dumb. I didn't think they'd create an option dumber than destroying the collector base but boy was I wrong.

[Iakus]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'm kind of happy Bioware didn't present a magical third option that solves everything for once.

A price for victory is fine, but these prices are too high.  I shouldn't pay for steak and get dog food

[AlanC9]

Seboist wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Refuse IS nihilistic. Rather, existential nihilism. Shepard callously throws away the lives of a trillion or more people without a second thought. The only non-nihilistic thing about it is that Shepard does it for an arbitrary set of ideals rather ban an overt belief that life has no intrinsic value.

Nah, Refuse is just plain dumb. I didn't think they'd create an option dumber than destroying the collector base but boy was I wrong.

Remember, people were demanding the opportunity to Refuse pre-EC.

[AlanC9]

Morocco Mole wrote...
Control isn't bad or 'dark'. I'd argue its the most optimistic of the bunch since it maintains the status quo of the galaxy.

Well, it can be dark if Shepard wants it so.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Alien Number Six wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

So have you lived under a rock the past year?

And lol at people actually getting depressed over a mediocre videogame ending

I fought a war and seen real carnage. If the ending of Mass Effect 3 made you depressed you either have some living ahead of you or you need to grow up. I have spent the past two days awake because my brain dosen't want to see what my ptsd wants to show it. People are still whining about how the ending depressed them? Fu+king please! Get something real to be sad about! Guess what people!

The ending of ME3 was realistic.

In war people die and if you where lucky enough to survive and go home you are changed forever.

I too have seen war and real carnage. Remember the Siege of Kunar back in 2009, over near FOB Naray? August of 2009, the bloodiest month of OEF? I was there. And I'm perfectly fine with the people who are upset with something that they are emotionally invested in. I myself am still greatly disappointed in it, because I was greatly invested into the series emotionally. I consider it rather irresponsible to go to your experience and use it as an excuse to tell people to grow up or find something real to be sad about. People don't need to worry about screwy priorities.

That said, the ending was not realistic, and in more than the . Not even tonally. You ought to know that as a Soldier. We don't compromise. We succeed. We accomplish. We win. And suddenly all of this make believe stuff is made better with a button press or pipe that gets shot or beam that you jump into and all the realistic and problematic issues with the writing, the narrative, and the tone being glossed over. If it was realistic it wouldn't have done that. And since all the variables for the series being so widely varied, it's not the least bit idealistic that some people might have expected more from the story with more positive variables.

The ending never tries to change the fact that people die. What it does do is add in an arbitrary cost of either Shepard's life or that of Synthetics... because! The ending literally makes you choose what your cost is for rejecting the Reapers or aligning with them in their goal. You don't accept our problem? Fine, you lose this entire allocation of life for not accepting our logic and not agreeing with us.

I know as well as you that people die in war. You and I know they don't always die for a reason. You and I know that our job isn't to make sure everyone comes home safely. We know that war can change a person. The degree of that change between the two of us definitely varies, and I'm not going to pretend that you and I had the exact same experiences, but we know that the changes are there nonetheless. I don't have problems with PTSD like many of my brothers and sisters. But I am a lot quieter, and I have a deeper appreciation for what I have done and what we are trying to do in the Middle East, even if I don't agree with it politically or ethically. 

All that said, this statement is rather irrelevant to either of our points. It really has no place here.

[The Heretic of Time]

iakus wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'm kind of happy Bioware didn't present a magical third option that solves everything for once.

A price for victory is fine, but these prices are too high.  I shouldn't pay for steak and get dog food

You think the life of one single A.I. sexbot is too high of a price for destroying the reapers?


Sacrificing one life.... of a robot.... to end the reaper thread.... is too much? Wow, okay...

[MassivelyEffective0730]

double post

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 14 juillet 2013 - 05:25 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

iakus wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Dark, "realistic" , moral compromise, honor is for suckers.

Nope. Still not seeing it.

Mass Effect 3 has dark themes. But they aren't that dark. The only times I'd even call the game dark is if you side with the geth or sabotage the genophage with Wrex. And that's it. Thessia is a joke and the endings themselves are nowhere near that level. Even Refuse ends on a very optimistic note with the new cycle defeating the Reapers.

Mass Effect 3 never tries to be realistic in anything. Except maybe "war sucks"

Moral compromise? Bioware can't even write the Renegade path without going into cackling jackass territory. So that's certainly not in there.

Every single ending choice is a moral compromise of some sort (inless you're one of those "cackling renegades" who hate all synthetics, I guess)

Even taking a stand against the Catalyst dooms the galaxy to another cycle.

Red, Green, Blue, all screw up the galaxy.  Bioware just chose to ignore the negative implications to whitewash things.  

And note I put realistic in quotes.  It's not really realistic.  It's just a term the jaded and cynical use to describe railroaded tragedy.

good thing i hate synthetics then.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

iakus wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'm kind of happy Bioware didn't present a magical third option that solves everything for once.

A price for victory is fine, but these prices are too high.  I shouldn't pay for steak and get dog food

You think the life of one single A.I. sexbot is too high of a price for destroying the reapers?


Sacrificing one life.... of a robot.... to end the reaper thread.... is too much? Wow, okay...

Well, he's probably one of those Paragons who believes the geth are alive and let them upload the Reaper Code, so presumably he's upset about his ending destroying them too.

Well, it is a bit of a shame that if you sided with the Geth, you now have two genocides on your hand (Quarians and the Geth), where as if you side with the Quarians, Destroy means you only sacrifice EDI.

That definitely could have been designed much better.

[The Heretic of Time]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

iakus wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I'm kind of happy Bioware didn't present a magical third option that solves everything for once.

A price for victory is fine, but these prices are too high.  I shouldn't pay for steak and get dog food

You think the life of one single A.I. sexbot is too high of a price for destroying the reapers?


Sacrificing one life.... of a robot.... to end the reaper thread.... is too much? Wow, okay...

Well, he's probably one of those Paragons who believes the geth are alive and let them upload the Reaper Code, so presumably he's upset about his ending destroying them too.

Did the Destroy ending also destroy the geth? Oh, I didn't even know that. In my game the geth never survive Rannoch. 

[Iakus]

Morocco Mole wrote...

A price for victory is fine, but these prices are too high. I shouldn't pay for steak and get dog food

Oh please. The only huge sacrifice is the geth. Which is a good way to put a pause to those who want a happy ending where their Shepard marries their LI or whatever.

Control isn't bad or 'dark'. I'd argue its the most optimistic of the bunch since it maintains the status quo of the galaxy.

Synthesis is poorly explained and badly written tripe. But whatever negatives it has easily gets over overblown by people who want to grimdarkify every ending.

Yeah. apparantly wanting a happy ending with a surviving Shepard is a bad thing.  Why am I even debating with you?

Control means the Reapers conquer the galaxy.  Sure, under new management, but yeah, I consider that "dark"

[Iakus]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

You think the life of one single A.I. sexbot is too high of a price for destroying the reapers?


Sacrificing one life.... of a robot.... to end the reaper thread.... is too much? Wow, okay...

How about all synthetic life everywhere in the galaxy?  

Yeah, too high.