1005 réponses à ce sujet

[Daemul]

 Nice pics! 

[geo523]

Finally finished the trilogy for the first time a few hours ago.

To say that I am confused would be an understatement. I didn't install the Extended Cut just so I could see how the original ending was.

Right now, I'm not even angry or sad. Just...confused more than anything.

All in all, one of the greatest experiences of my life. The last 10 minutes don't ruin the whole trilogy for me.

[Rasofe]

geo523 wrote...

Finally finished the trilogy for the first time a few hours ago.

To say that I am confused would be an understatement. I didn't install the Extended Cut just so I could see how the original ending was.

Right now, I'm not even angry or sad. Just...confused more than anything.

All in all, one of the greatest experiences of my life. The last 10 minutes don't ruin the whole trilogy for me.

That's a natural reaction. Give it time. For a lot of people confusion turns into anger when it isn't resolved long enough, for others it kind of just dissipates. You'll find out which are you, which is worth some time.
Still, go ahead and watch the EC later when you've had a few days to get your bearings.

[geo523]

Rasofe wrote...

geo523 wrote...

Finally finished the trilogy for the first time a few hours ago.

To say that I am confused would be an understatement. I didn't install the Extended Cut just so I could see how the original ending was.

Right now, I'm not even angry or sad. Just...confused more than anything.

All in all, one of the greatest experiences of my life. The last 10 minutes don't ruin the whole trilogy for me.

That's a natural reaction. Give it time. For a lot of people confusion turns into anger when it isn't resolved long enough, for others it kind of just dissipates. You'll find out which are you, which is worth some time.
Still, go ahead and watch the EC later when you've had a few days to get your bearings.

Yeah man. Now that I'm starting to wrap my brain around what actually happened, I'm more disappointed than angry. There was a lot of wasted potential.

I don't really have a problem with Destroy, Control, or Synthesis (I chose Destroy). I do have a problem with the lack of closure. The reason I love Mass Effect is because of the characters, and I hate not knowing what happened to them.

I plan to watch the Indoctrination Theory videos, then download the Extended Cut. Hopefully it answers some of my questions.

But like I said earlier, the last 1% doesn't ruin the other 99% of the trilogy. It will always be special to me.

[Rasofe]

Oh? If you want to see IT go check out Acavyos. But it's hardly relevant post-EC.
I agree about the endings not ruining everything. They're just a sore throat at the end of a chorus.

[Linkenski]

geo523 wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

geo523 wrote...

Finally finished the trilogy for the first time a few hours ago.

To say that I am confused would be an understatement. I didn't install the Extended Cut just so I could see how the original ending was.

Right now, I'm not even angry or sad. Just...confused more than anything.

All in all, one of the greatest experiences of my life. The last 10 minutes don't ruin the whole trilogy for me.

That's a natural reaction. Give it time. For a lot of people confusion turns into anger when it isn't resolved long enough, for others it kind of just dissipates. You'll find out which are you, which is worth some time.
Still, go ahead and watch the EC later when you've had a few days to get your bearings.

Yeah man. Now that I'm starting to wrap my brain around what actually happened, I'm more disappointed than angry. There was a lot of wasted potential.

I don't really have a problem with Destroy, Control, or Synthesis (I chose Destroy). I do have a problem with the lack of closure. The reason I love Mass Effect is because of the characters, and I hate not knowing what happened to them.

I plan to watch the Indoctrination Theory videos, then download the Extended Cut. Hopefully it answers some of my questions.

But like I said earlier, the last 1% doesn't ruin the other 99% of the trilogy. It will always be special to me.

If you watch IT the Extended Cut will just dissapoint you. It pretty much disproves all that was plausible in the first iteration of the theory.
The reason I think the ending "ruined" the series for many was because the whole trilogy is built around the threat of the Reapers, and in the final moment you're told that they're basically a big joke. They're trying to solve a problem that doesn't even exist, or a problem that they themselves created, and clearly their motive in ME3 was not what was originally foreshadowed in either ME1 and ME2. But the reapers being a joke or not, the problem is that Shepard can't tell them why they're wrong with evidence, of which you have plenty in most playthroughs (if both Quarians and Geth survived, or if EDI gets along with Joker)

The ending is set up around a logic fallacy but in the original ending it seems like the writers thought their logic was actually sound, and with Shepard sacrificing himself, the Relays blowing up, Joker stranded on that planet... it just doesn't really feel like you accomplished anything for a good cause, because the simplest thing to be done was if the Catalyst would just turn off his Reapers.

But... the Extended Cut DOES give you closure, and based on interpretation it might make the circular logic be less circuar and more intentionall ironic and least of all, not nonsensical. The ending definitely goes from being ****ty to being digestible with the Extended Cut. 

[Rasofe]

I still think Spiral Coils makes it even better, but you should really check EC before you check Coils.

[SwobyJ]

I'll just say that as a 'Crazy Theorist' (that incorporates IT but it's not all I think), I kinda love:
-Extended Cut
-Leviathan
-Citadel
-From Ashes
-somewhat Omega but I have some issues with it

by now. They all work together. None of the DLCs disprove anything to me. Hell, Citadel DLC was the 'IT DLC' personal proof, but not objectively, sure.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 27 novembre 2013 - 09:37 .

[Rasofe]

IT DLC personal proof?

[SwobyJ]

Rasofe wrote...

IT DLC personal proof?

Basically, by the time I finished Citadel DLC, I learned all I needed to learn, and could move on to being excited about the next game. "Personal proof" here means "I think I understand enough about the authors' intent and inspirations, even without an explicit statement from them".

It's not really IT though, but just the aspect of indoctrination happening. It's not a problem either (as ITers despair at Shepard being stuck in rubble) - we have a lot more to do as players. And I'm looking forward to it.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 27 novembre 2013 - 10:03 .

[geo523]

Linkenski wrote...

geo523 wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

geo523 wrote...

Finally finished the trilogy for the first time a few hours ago.

To say that I am confused would be an understatement. I didn't install the Extended Cut just so I could see how the original ending was.

Right now, I'm not even angry or sad. Just...confused more than anything.

All in all, one of the greatest experiences of my life. The last 10 minutes don't ruin the whole trilogy for me.

That's a natural reaction. Give it time. For a lot of people confusion turns into anger when it isn't resolved long enough, for others it kind of just dissipates. You'll find out which are you, which is worth some time.
Still, go ahead and watch the EC later when you've had a few days to get your bearings.

Yeah man. Now that I'm starting to wrap my brain around what actually happened, I'm more disappointed than angry. There was a lot of wasted potential.

I don't really have a problem with Destroy, Control, or Synthesis (I chose Destroy). I do have a problem with the lack of closure. The reason I love Mass Effect is because of the characters, and I hate not knowing what happened to them.

I plan to watch the Indoctrination Theory videos, then download the Extended Cut. Hopefully it answers some of my questions.

But like I said earlier, the last 1% doesn't ruin the other 99% of the trilogy. It will always be special to me.

If you watch IT the Extended Cut will just dissapoint you. It pretty much disproves all that was plausible in the first iteration of the theory.
The reason I think the ending "ruined" the series for many was because the whole trilogy is built around the threat of the Reapers, and in the final moment you're told that they're basically a big joke. They're trying to solve a problem that doesn't even exist, or a problem that they themselves created, and clearly their motive in ME3 was not what was originally foreshadowed in either ME1 and ME2. But the reapers being a joke or not, the problem is that Shepard can't tell them why they're wrong with evidence, of which you have plenty in most playthroughs (if both Quarians and Geth survived, or if EDI gets along with Joker)

The ending is set up around a logic fallacy but in the original ending it seems like the writers thought their logic was actually sound, and with Shepard sacrificing himself, the Relays blowing up, Joker stranded on that planet... it just doesn't really feel like you accomplished anything for a good cause, because the simplest thing to be done was if the Catalyst would just turn off his Reapers.

But... the Extended Cut DOES give you closure, and based on interpretation it might make the circular logic be less circuar and more intentionall ironic and least of all, not nonsensical. The ending definitely goes from being ****ty to being digestible with the Extended Cut. 

So I've spent pretty much the entire day watching Indoctrination Theory videos. My mind is seriously blown.

If what you're saying is true, that the Extended Cut will render the IT meaningless, then...man that would be a real letdown

[AlanC9]

I'd play the EC before thinking about it more.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I uploaded this avatar.

[Rasofe]

Well, I know that Spiral Coils doesn't really have the following that IT did, and I haven't got the talent to make youtube videos about it... but it could be a little mind blowing too after you've watched the EC.
Besides, IT doesn't add anything to the story thematically. It just "explains" the ending by making Shepard indoctrinated - it's an additional plot point but it doesn't make it more relevant for Shepard's character. It's mostly popular because people don't like the string of detail errors and nonsense present in the ending more than they don't like that it's mostly meaningless.

Modifié par Rasofe, 28 novembre 2013 - 02:09 .

[geo523]

Rasofe wrote...

Well, I know that Spiral Coils doesn't really have the following that IT did, and I haven't got the talent to make youtube videos about it... but it could be a little mind blowing too after you've watched the EC.
Besides, IT doesn't add anything to the story thematically. It just "explains" the ending by making Shepard indoctrinated - it's an additional plot point but it doesn't make it more relevant for Shepard's character. It's mostly popular because people don't like the string of detail errors and nonsense present in the ending more than they don't like that it's mostly meaningless.

I'll definitely check it out after playing the Extended Cut, but why doesn't it apply to the original endings? Does it have something to do with something the Catalyst says in the EC?

[Darks1d3]

In the past month, I completed ME1 on insanity for the first time. Played as an adept, and transferred that save over to ME2. Finally beat ME2 on insanity last night. Frustrating at times, especially at the beginning with no powers. Playing as an adept didn't help(that class got nerfed in ME2). Got easier once I had everything I wanted fully ranked up and figured out what squadmates to bring on certain missions. Later, I'll help Liara take on the Shadow broker, then finish it up with Arrival.

[Rasofe]

Spiral Coils doesn't apply to the original endings because they are a confusing mess and we don't know ANYTHING about what happens after the Relays explode. Trying to build a thematic theory based on Leviathan DLC and the Prothean and other factors to hit a target clearly made out of mist is impossible because the dart will just go right through. EC gives it enough solid mass to stick.
Pardon the metaphor. I just don't want to spoil anything.

Modifié par Rasofe, 28 novembre 2013 - 02:45 .

[Pee Jae]

Raced through ME2 as fast as I could, ignoring anything that isn't carried over into ME3. Which is quite a lot actually and unfair to ME2, IF I hadn't already played it a zillion times already.

Played through to the Citadel's side missions and Palaven and broke up with Liara. I've never done the Samara romance angle in the Citadel dlc, so wanted to do that. Pushed her in ME2 to insure it. I know it's just a lil thing compared to the big romance options, but 'tis nice.

Next up; Javik and Sur'Kesh.

[SwobyJ]

I'm so damn glad I don't have a specifically named theory to trot around with (no offense Rafofe - I like your thread and think your idea itself has weight, and I've talked about a similar deal months ago in private convos). I feel so much more (whether I actually am or not) liberated in imagination. Or headcanon. Whatever.

Anyway I did the mission arc of Citadel DLC last night on Insanity. Wow, that clone fight with a Soldier . I was NOT ready for that. Took several tries but otherwise felt like one of the most 'cinematic' gameplay sequences in the series. Then had to go to sleep. Next, I'll do Leviathan, Thessia, Sanctuary, sidequest cleanup, rest of Citadel, and the final run...

Modifié par SwobyJ, 28 novembre 2013 - 08:17 .

[SwobyJ]

AlanC9 wrote...

I'd play the EC before thinking about it more.

I love the EC. They hit all the right notes.


EDIT: It doesn't 'fix' the ending. I'll probably always think they dropped the ball with that whole deal. I'm just saying that it is thematically solid, interesting, and tells me (personally) what I wanted to know.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 28 novembre 2013 - 08:19 .

[Rasofe]

Geesh, I only named my theory because it needed a name. And the reason I came up with it is because the meaning of the game was kind of lost in the last decision, or at least was disconnected from the main protagonist's character development climax.

I knoe, that Soldier fight! He keeps running straight for you and trying to get in a melee, and all you can do is just fight back. No personal tech attacks, no cloaking and running away, no charging out. Just raw shooting power. Also only used my Paladin and kept my team focused on Brooks.

[SwobyJ]

I have no problem with your theory. I'm just getting the feeling after all these months that 'Titled Name Theory' is an issue with BSNers as a whole ('IndocTheory' just being a major expression of it), instead of just enjoying the story they're being presented with and interpreting it with an avid critique. (not to say Titled Theories can't do that, but they seem to all be focused on *one* aspect of a *greater* picture, from my POV now) It doesn't help that it seems to come down to 'Bioware sucks/bad writing, or This Theory is correct, no other possibilities' at times. Don't worry - your thread is one of the most reasonable.

That said, I love how it also does seem to me that almost everyone IS right in at least some way. A bit from this theory, a bit from that post, a bit from this user, etc --- all adds up to what might be the truth of the creators' intent. I think the pure Synthers that ITers have a beef with actually have some of the truth, but I also think that Indoc is happening and that it's hard to deny. Long story short, I like having fun with the game in my own way

~~~~

I used a Saber V weaksauce or something. I sucked. It was so hard

Modifié par SwobyJ, 29 novembre 2013 - 02:40 .

[Rasofe]

I've been having a lot of trouble with the saber. As in I can't find it and forgot where it is. All 3 playthroughs, I know it's in a vat on Sanctuary but I couldn't find it...
Will beat Citadel DLC with my Adept for the last time. Then it's time to finish the game.

[Linkenski]

...aaand I beat ME3 for the 6th time today. I wonder why I bother playing that game so much when it's probably my least favorite. There were still a couple of outcomes I hadn't tried out so I guess that's it.

I will say after experiencing the last couple of missions again, that Priority: Earth does hit a lot of good notes until you actually land on Earth. I love the feeling of culmination of everything you've done as the camera pans over to alien ships and you see what forces you've aquired over the course of the game and it makes you reflect on the choices you didn't end up making. I rushed through Rannoch and didn't save Koris this time, so I couldn't paragon/renegade my way out and had to let Tali die, since I've already had a playthrough where the geth died.

However, it really feels like the writing just got rushed right after the middle point into Cerberus Headquarters, and from there on the writing is generally just veery spotty. And I still think that both Priority Earth and the Citadel: The Return are both tonally inconsistent, but it's mostly because Earth has this very militaristic WWII feel to it, that it stands completely counter to the last 20 minutes.

But man, those endings just makes me feel kinda empty. It wasn't really depressing this time, only, I kinda just turned off and thought... "man, it still feels kinda abrupt". There should've been some kind of postgame (that isn't a fanservice DLC) or something, or damn it, the conclusion should just have been more to the point instead of turning the themes on their head like the endings do. That's one thing Priority: Earth gets right, except for the rushed execution of course. Characters often mention how magnificent it is that all races are united for this one cause and it feels satisfying even if it doesn't showcase your specific choices as well as it could've.. the ending just seems like the writers just didn't understand what they'd made. Everything about it is just so ironic.

Modifié par Linkenski, 29 novembre 2013 - 04:03 .

[Rasofe]

Well, taking Javik with you to the casino he will later comment that Protheans used to date Asari, and "The things Liara does not know..."
Is Javik Liara's great great great grandfather?