748 réponses à ce sujet

[ATiBotka]

erezike wrote...

ATiBotka wrote...

Refuse is logical? That's new to me.

If you take under consideration that the one whos telling you what to do is also the master of your destruction.
Its ussualy a good advice if you are trying to win a war. to not do, what your foe wants you to do.

Then what should I do? Surrender? What would that accomplish? 
You know we can't beat them conventionally.

[Erez Kristal]

Who said anything about surrender?

[ATiBotka]

erezike wrote...

Who said anything about surrender?

Refuse is surrender.

[Erez Kristal]

ATiBotka wrote...

erezike wrote...

Who said anything about surrender?

Refuse is surrender.

To accept one of the catalyst choices is to surrender. you surrender on his terms.
You accept his outcomes.

To refuse is to fight the reapers whereever they are.
Its to fight for survival against their attempts to destroy all organic life in the galaxy. the galaxy has billions of stars.
Even the reapers have limited options to search all these stars. a gurrila fighting could drain them. with krogans and geth by the organics side with the rachni and leviathan artifacts. this cycle had more chance for survival than any other.

If the reapers no longer have a way to create new reapers. their numbers will lessen, they will grow weaker. 
And with the weaken reapers the organic lives in the galaxy might just have a chance of survival. im not going to lie to you almost all of who you know will die. but there will stll be a chance to survive.

people think that the refuse cutscene means that a new race used the crucible. but its also possibile that the galaxy weakened the reapers so much that the battle went on for thousands of years and liara voice telling of shepard heroics was in fact the voice of the ressitance

Modifié par erezike, 13 juillet 2013 - 06:14 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I've been doing some serious thinking about this. There is only one answer to the question asked.

The story is the destruction of everything I loved about the Mass Effect Universe. As much as I dislike the Batarians, they didn't deserve what happened to them. They could have remained the bad guys. As far as I was concerned, the reapers could have remained perpetually in dark space as an unknown threat forever. We stopped them permanently when we stopped the collectors. There could have been no other way. Mac had a golden opportunity to start a new story, but he chose "the invasion."

We got the invasion. We're stuck with Leaving Earth. Well Earth was a ****** hole. Then we go to Palaven. I never saw Palaven, only its moon which was a rock like any other moon. Then on to Sur'Kesh which was quite beautiful. Tuchanka was always a dump. After the The Coup, nothing good happens, so why even bother? I guess what I'm saying is this:

Leaving Earth > Palaven > Javik > Jack > War Council > Miranda > Tuchanka > Coup > Lock in Your LI > Omega DLC (kill Petrovsky just because) > Citadel DLC. THE END.

Now put the game away because the rest of the story sucks. Leviathan sucks. The ending sucks. "What about the reapers?" You ask. They're dead. They caught a virus in Batarian space and disintegrated in to harmless dust. The TV series was cancelled due to low ratings. I'm choosing to ignore Mac and his Destroy, Synthesis, Control and Refuse endings.

No more idiot Admirals. No more idiot Council. No more idiot Starbrat. We only deal with crime bosses and parties now.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 13 juillet 2013 - 06:18 .

[Erez Kristal]

Dont worry julia we will get it right, you are a lead writer now.
its a chance to show your renegade anti cerberus side.

i think part of the reason i write these kind of threads is to show the unbelievers how ridiculous mass effect 3 plot really is... but its hard to refute something when people have believed in it for so long.

Modifié par erezike, 13 juillet 2013 - 06:32 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I feel a song today. I will write the song (might be gothic metal). Later I will attend to the story.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 13 juillet 2013 - 07:10 .

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
As much as I dislike the Batarians, they didn't deserve what happened to them.

No, they didn't. Neither did the protheans. Or the cycle before them, or the cycle before that cycle. The ME universe is about nobody getting what they deserve for a billion years.

[AlanC9]

erezike wrote...

Dont worry julia we will get it right, you are a lead writer now.
its a chance to show your renegade anti cerberus side.

i think part of the reason i write these kind of threads is to show the unbelievers how ridiculous mass effect 3 plot really is... but its hard to refute something when people have believed in it for so long.

So even you don't take your ideas seriously? Suddenly this thread makes a lot more sense.

[AlanC9]

erezike wrote...

If the reapers no longer have a way to create new reapers. their numbers will lessen, they will grow weaker.

How are you going to take that ability away without actually having organics commit suicide?

people think that the refuse cutscene means that a new race used the crucible. but its also possibile that the galaxy weakened the reapers so much that the battle went on for thousands of years and liara voice telling of shepard heroics was in fact the voice of the ressitance

Well, it you want to believe that, nobody's going to stop you. I'm not sure anyone could, since Bio's already flatly denied that's what happened

[Erez Kristal]

Alan, its a video game.
But if you decide to put yourself in shepard role and immerse yourself in the story. you have to do to it with your mind open.
If you claim to have reached a logical conclusion which supported one of your actions. you have to back it up.

I feel that some people dont really think through things when they make decisions on a galactic scale.
They tend to act more with their emotion than with their brains.

This is also why we have so many people who think the reapers are misunderstood and why cerberus gets a bad name

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

This thread has just been a roller coaster of entertainment.

I'd like to thank the wonderful people that made all this possible.

[Erez Kristal]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

This thread has just been a roller coaster of entertainment.

I'd like to thank the wonderful people that made all this possible.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Might want to fix your image sport.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 13 juillet 2013 - 08:30 .

[Erez Kristal]

https://encrypted-tb...OJtVUwKPherDFbg

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Muuuuuuch better!

[AlanC9]

erezike wrote...

Alan, its a video game.
But if you decide to put yourself in shepard role and immerse yourself in the story. you have to do to it with your mind open.

Nothing wrong with putting yourself in Shepard's role. The problem was when you tried to force stuff into Shepard's POV that wasn't from Shepard's POV.

And from Shepard's POV Refuse is still an epic fail. Though a particular Shepard can delude himself into thinking that  epic fails are his only remaining options, so therefore he might as well pick the version that lets him have a good speech before failing; I've got one of those Sheps myself

[Erez Kristal]

I have to stop these threads. i am way to invested.
This is the last reply to this thread which is going circular ways.
I am repeating what i already wrote earlier in this thread.

Refuse isnt an epic fail in a case where destroy and control dont work.
From shepard POV, you have no way to be certian that shooting the tube will lead to the destruction of the reapers just because the catalyst(your enemy) told you so.
Usually shooting tubes causes destroy a machine. it doesnt make it work.
enemies use deception to achieve their goals. if the reapers wanted to be destroyed they could just fly away.

Control - Holding into the rods is very far fetched. even today you have better means of control that dont require death.(see in the first post) this is 2187. an age of mass relays and ftl. they could have a wifi nano chip to allow you to control the reapers.

synthesis- the price could be too high.

Refuse - Live to fight another day. galaxy may or may not be completly destroyed from shep point of view.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

erezike wrote...

I have to stop these threads. i am way to invested.
This is the last reply to this thread which is going circular ways.
I am repeating what i already wrote earlier in this thread.

Refuse isnt an epic fail in a case where destroy and control dont work.
From shepard POV, you have no way to be certian that shooting the tube will lead to the destruction of the reapers just because the catalyst(your enemy) told you so.
Usually shooting tubes causes destroy a machine. it doesnt make it work.
enemies use deception to achieve their goals. if the reapers wanted to be destroyed they could just fly away.

Control - Holding into the rods is very far fetched. even today you have better means of control that dont require death.(see in the first post) this is 2187. an age of mass relays and ftl. they could have a wifi nano chip to allow you to control the reapers.

synthesis- the price could be too high.

Refuse - Live to fight another day. galaxy may or may not be completly destroyed from shep point of view.

Will. Will be completely destroyed.

It's been established by virtually every character that the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally. You've thrown your entire fleet at them during this last battle and afterwards the Reapers will have the ability to lock down the relays from the Citadel preventing any and all coordination. And Shepard realizes he is most likely dead anyway.

[Erez Kristal]

Just when i seem to get out they pull be back in.

People around shepard speak a lot of things, dont forget its war and people lack faith to fight on
which is why shepard needs to live and give them hope.
The relays will be closed but the galaxy has billions of stars. a lot of places to hide.

If you have the krogans, rachni or geth you have a lot of adaptability to keep the fighting strong for decades.
What the galaxy on shepard command really needed to do once he refused was to destroy the citadel and start destroying those mass relays.

Shepard gave them the key with opening the citadel, all they needed to do was pick him up and start the bombardent.

If shepard managed to gather enough forces, this is possibile to achieve.

The galaxy will fight on.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

erezike wrote...

Just when i seem to get out they pull be back in.

People around shepard speak a lot of things, dont forget its war and people lack faith to fight on
which is why shepard needs to live and give them hope.

I don't seem to remember there ever being a point for me to tell anyone that we can win conventionally. Hell, if my Shepard thought that was on the table as an option, I wouldn't have rolled with the Crucible plan in the first place.

The relays will be closed but the galaxy has billions of stars. a lot of places to hide.

Just like it did for the Protheans...no wait, they're all dead.

If you have the krogans, rachni or geth you have a lot of adaptability to keep the fighting strong for decades.
What the galaxy on shepard command really needed to do once he refused was to destroy the citadel and start destroying those mass relays.

You mean like on Palaven? I seem to remember the Krogan lifting the siege there, wait no, that didn't work.

The Reapers have control of the Citadel, Thessia and Palaven are under siege, Earth is fried, as are the Batarians, they can shut the relays off whenever they want, and the entire Allied Forces are currently getting their asses kicked by the Reaper fleet.

Where is this special resistance going to crop up able to take down Reaper Capital Ships?

Shepard gave them the key with opening the citadel, all they needed to do was pick him up and start the bombardent.

If shepard managed to gather enough forces, this is possibile to achieve.

The galaxy will fight on.

Well, you're adamant about burying your head in the sand, I'll give you that. There are no other forces left.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 13 juillet 2013 - 11:03 .

[Erez Kristal]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

erezike wrote...

Just when i seem to get out they pull be back in.

People around shepard speak a lot of things, dont forget its war and people lack faith to fight on
which is why shepard needs to live and give them hope.

I don't seem to remember there ever being a point for me to tell anyone that we can win conventionally. Hell, if my Shepard thought that was on the table as an option, I wouldn't have rolled with the Crucible plan in the first place.

The relays will be closed but the galaxy has billions of stars. a lot of places to hide.

Just like it did for the Protheans...no wait, they're all dead.

If you have the krogans, rachni or geth you have a lot of adaptability to keep the fighting strong for decades.
What the galaxy on shepard command really needed to do once he refused was to destroy the citadel and start destroying those mass relays.

You mean like on Palaven? I seem to remember the Krogan lifting the siege there, wait no, that didn't work.

The Reapers have control of the Citadel, Thessia and Palaven are under siege, Earth is fried, as are the Batarians, they can shut the relays off whenever they want, and the entire Allied Forces are currently getting their asses kicked by the Reaper fleet.

Where is this special resistance going to crop up able to take down Reaper Capital Ships?

Shepard gave them the key with opening the citadel, all they needed to do was pick him up and start the bombardent.

If shepard managed to gather enough forces, this is possibile to achieve.

The galaxy will fight on.

Well, you're adamant about burying your head in the sand, I'll give you that. There are no other forces left.

Winning conventionally is an absurd argument. this isnt going to be two knights dueling. if shepard survive to fight on. it will be a fight that will last thousands of years. 
It will take every nasty tactic, every despicable act, everyone commited to fighting the war.

When people are talking about winning the war. they are talking about winning it a close time range.

I would argue on,. but im tired, i have little chance of changing your opinions at the moment.

Refuse is taking a chance to fight another day. that is all it will give you. a chance
No matter how small its still a chance.

Control and destroy point on sucide. your should try to contradict destroy and control from shep pov.
Just being compeltely desperate isnt enough for picking one of those choices. you have to put some logic behind it to make them believeable.

[Reorte]

erezike wrote...

Refuse isnt an epic fail in a case where destroy and control dont work.
From shepard POV, you have no way to be certian that shooting the tube will lead to the destruction of the reapers just because the catalyst(your enemy) told you so.
Usually shooting tubes causes destroy a machine. it doesnt make it work.
enemies use deception to achieve their goals. if the reapers wanted to be destroyed they could just fly away.

But that ignores the very simple question "What have I got to lose?" When deploying the Crucible was a last-ditch throw everything we've got at it, it's all expendable for this one shot mission, you have no sensible choice other than to make the leap of faith and do whatever you can to activate the Crucible. Ultimately if it goes wrong it's not going to make anything worse than refusing to use it.

Deception works best when there's a bit of truth in there.

The Catalyst didn't say that shooting the tube did anything. No-one told Shepard how any of the choices worked, he just magically knew.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

[quote]erezike wrote...


Well, you're adamant about burying your head in the sand, I'll give you that. There are no other forces left. [/quote] Winning conventionally is an absurd argument. this isnt going to be two knights dueling. if shepard survive to fight on. it will be a fight that will last thousands of years. 
It will take every nasty tactic, every despicable act, everyone commited to fighting the war. [/quote]

And when the Protagonist has already spent every conceivable resource, there's nothing left.

There are no tactics, acts, or people left to commit. Everything was committed to the Crucible. And it failed.

Point being: if victory by conventional means, long or short, was ever on the table, the Crucible plan was ludicrous to begin with. Javik is a perfect demonstration of where we got with Conventional Victory.

If conventional victory was ever going to be a possibility (and every character has agreed that it's not), Shepard + co. tossed it in the garbage the minute they went back to Earth.

[quote]
Refuse is taking a chance to fight another day. that is all it will give you. a chance
No matter how small its still a chance. [/quote]

You have more of a chance with the Catalyst telling you the truth. Shepard's resources are spent.

[quote]
Control and destroy point on sucide. your should try to contradict destroy and control from shep pov.
Just being compeltely desperate isnt enough for picking one of those choices. you have to put some logic behind it to make them believeable. [/quote]

If the Catalyst wanted you dead, he would send more husks after you up the Elevator. Or he wouldn't have said anything; Shepard keeps trying to figure out the Crucible while his allies keep getting crushed.

You have this odd image of there being resources to actually counter the Reapers with. The whole point of this gambit was to throw everything we had on the Crucible.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 14 juillet 2013 - 12:30 .

[AlanC9]

erezike wrote...

Refuse isnt an epic fail in a case where destroy and control dont work..

Wouldn't they all be the same fail, then?