748 réponses à ce sujet

[Erez Kristal]

first of all, it safe to assume that even if the reapers didnt create the crucible plans.
That they were aware of its exsitence due to spies on the citadel and exprience from past cycles.
the catalyst would prefer the galaxy to build the crucible in order for them to spend all their resources and hope on it. and turn blind to other solutions.

We have no idea how the synthessis work, we cannot assume that another person who isnt shepard would be suitable for it.
Shepard also needs to do this willingly, his corpse wouldnt do.

Honor=sport.
Re-evaluated its opinion? how do you know? because your enemy tells you? thats naive. its just trying to make you feel special. its softing you up. what was different about this cycle? the protheans were much more succesful in hindering the reapers than this cycle.

You have no idea what was the notion of the reapers- you only know what they choose to tell you.
You have to look at the facts and not some wishful thinking promises due to things your enemy is telling you.


As for the little kitty - cant expect much from a kitty.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Love you too sugar.

[dorktainian]

meow.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

erezike wrote...

We have no idea how the synthessis work, we cannot assume that another person who isnt shepard would be suitable for it.
Shepard also needs to do this willingly, his corpse wouldnt do.

Burden of proof is on you for that one. There's nothing about Shepard indicated by the Catalyst to be important enough that only he can do this. Shepard isn't unique unless we're told why only he can achieve Synthesis.

Live or dead is irrelevant. If the Reapers need a corpse, they have ample to spare. If the Reapers need a live body, well those are easy enough to find too.

Re-evaluated its opinion? how do you know? because your enemy tells you? thats naive. its just trying to make you feel special. its softing you up. what was different about this cycle? the protheans were much more succesful in hindering the reapers than this cycle.

Well, there is the fact that he doesn't need you to achieve Synthesis.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 17 juillet 2013 - 11:42 .

[dorktainian]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

erezike wrote...

We have no idea how the synthessis work, we cannot assume that another person who isnt shepard would be suitable for it.
Shepard also needs to do this willingly, his corpse wouldnt do.

Burden of proof is on you for that one. There's nothing about Shepard indicated by the Catalyst to be important enough that only he can do this. Shepard isn't unique unless we're told why only he can achieve Synthesis.

Live or dead is irrelevant. If the Reapers need a corpse, they have ample to spare. If the Reapers need a live body, well those are easy enough to find too.

Re-evaluated its opinion? how do you know? because your enemy tells you? thats naive. its just trying to make you feel special. its softing you up. what was different about this cycle? the protheans were much more succesful in hindering the reapers than this cycle.

Well, there is the fact that he doesn't need you to achieve Synthesis.

he does and he even tells you that he can't make it happen.  seriously play the game again.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

dorktainian wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

erezike wrote...

We have no idea how the synthessis work, we cannot assume that another person who isnt shepard would be suitable for it.
Shepard also needs to do this willingly, his corpse wouldnt do.

Burden of proof is on you for that one. There's nothing about Shepard indicated by the Catalyst to be important enough that only he can do this. Shepard isn't unique unless we're told why only he can achieve Synthesis.

Live or dead is irrelevant. If the Reapers need a corpse, they have ample to spare. If the Reapers need a live body, well those are easy enough to find too.

Re-evaluated its opinion? how do you know? because your enemy tells you? thats naive. its just trying to make you feel special. its softing you up. what was different about this cycle? the protheans were much more succesful in hindering the reapers than this cycle.

Well, there is the fact that he doesn't need you to achieve Synthesis.

he does and he even tells you that he can't make it happen.  seriously play the game again.

But I thought we can't trust anything the Catalyst says, remember? He's the leader of the Reapers.

[dorktainian]

my guess is that it's actually a failsafe built into the 'program' by the leviathans. The program needs an organic to actually use the program, so starjar goes about his merry business for 50,000 years till he needs an organic, so through indoctrination manages to drag an organic up there to do the dirty deed for him.

[AlanC9]

So why use Shepard if someone indoctrinated will do?

[AlexMBrennan]

he does and he even tells you that he can't make it happen. seriously play the game again.

He says that synthesis cannot be forced and that Shepard altered the variables; ignoring the possibility that glowboy is mistaken, lying or batsh!t insane it still doesn't follow that he needs Shepard specifically to jump into that beam.
[Wouldn't the Reapers be forcing synthesis by if they made a indoctrinated tool jump into the beam?]

Also, please forward all IT related discussion to the mods for memory holing.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 17 juillet 2013 - 04:48 .

[Display Name Owner]

I hate to say it, since the whole notion that Shepard is that special kind of irks me, but the fact that the Catalyst apparently shuts down the Crucible when Shepard refuses rather than just getting any goon to take a dive into the beam, would suggest that Shepard and only Shepard can activate it. Since Synthesis is the solution the Catalyst itself determines as ideal, you would expect it to use the Crucible to it's advantage, but it seems to drop the idea when Shepard does. It's ridiculous, but there it is.

Although an alternative idea would be that the Catalyst somehow takes Shepard's refusal as proof that this cycle is just unworthy, which is even more ridiculous tbh.

[The Twilight God]

erezike wrote...

Destroy - shoot tube, destroy crucible. shepard dies or is in very bad health. reapers have easier time winning.

So all the Reapers being killed off makes it easier for them to win...  

You already gave the punch line. What's the point in continuing this joke post beyond the first sentence?

[Erez Kristal]

The Twilight God wrote...

erezike wrote...

Destroy - shoot tube, destroy crucible. shepard dies or is in very bad health. reapers have easier time winning.

So all the Reapers being killed off makes it easier for them to win...  

You already gave the punch line. What's the point in continuing this joke post beyond the first sentence?

Who said anything about reapers being killed???

I know you are a big destroy fan. which makes it all the harder to realise you should have been duped if the plot made any sesne.

[Han Shot First]

The only logical choices are the ones where you either huskify the entire galaxy or rage quit and let the Reapers win?

I'm in a troll thread, aren't I?

[Deathsaurer]

It operates on blue and orange morality, it isn't supposed to make sense to us. Could it be lying? Sure, it even makes it clear if you weren't useful it'd be trying to kill you. Is it lying? Well no one can say for sure at that moment but after talking to the Leviathans and hearing the at all costs clause I think it's worth the gamble at that point.

And why are people shocked about Shepard being symbolically special? Javik said it best, they are the avatar of this cycle. The avatar decides the fate of the cycle. That's all there is to it. Some may find that lame but it's rather obvious.

[Erez Kristal]

Han Shot First wrote...

The only logical choices are the ones where you either huskify the entire galaxy or rage quit and let the Reapers win?

I'm in a troll thread, aren't I?

You sound so certain the crucible will work.
Surely you have been trolled, Trolled by the catalyst that is.

[Han Shot First]

erezike wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The only logical choices are the ones where you either huskify the entire galaxy or rage quit and let the Reapers win?

I'm in a troll thread, aren't I?

You sound so certain the crucible will work.
Surely you have been trolled, Trolled by the catalyst that is.

Ugh, it did work.

The Reapers died in my game.

[Erez Kristal]

Deathsaurer wrote...

It operates on blue and orange morality, it isn't supposed to make sense to us. Could it be lying? Sure, it even makes it clear if you weren't useful it'd be trying to kill you. Is it lying? Well no one can say for sure at that moment but after talking to the Leviathans and hearing the at all costs clause I think it's worth the gamble at that point.

And why are people shocked about Shepard being symbolically special? Javik said it best, they are the avatar of this cycle. The avatar decides the fate of the cycle. That's all there is to it. Some may find that lame but it's rather obvious.

The thing is, if the catalyst wanted to help you or work with you. it would have offered to cease fire, to take the reapers back into the dark space. but the truth is. the catalyst is forcing you too choose on it terms, it doesnt give you any expainations on why it couldnt just the killing and yet it offers you an option on how to destroy it, and all you have to do is shoot the crucible or the part of the tubes which connect the crucible to the citadel.
Isnt that alarmingly suspicious to you?

But you feel like gambling, so lets try to calculate your odds.
You can have zero chances at shooting the tube and killing the reapers.
Or you can refuse live and fight them in another day.
Or you can submit and hope they take mercy on you,

Bioware resolve doesnt make sense when you piece all the evidence together. 

[Erez Kristal]

Han Shot First wrote...

erezike wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The only logical choices are the ones where you either huskify the entire galaxy or rage quit and let the Reapers win?

I'm in a troll thread, aren't I?

You sound so certain the crucible will work.
Surely you have been trolled, Trolled by the catalyst that is.

Ugh, it did work.

The Reapers died in my game.

You also see samara and her daugher have fun on an asari world 

What are the chances of samara actually doing that in her lifetime with the relays destroy and the world in ruin?
Thats right, nothing.
The visions you see after shepard shoot the tube are just that, visions. you have no idea what follows. that is why you also get the cliff-hanger vid of shepard breathing, that vid after his crew declare him dead. isnt that suspicious to you?

So lets forget all the interpretations and wild speculations and focus on what makes sense when you make a decision.

Why does it make sense for you to shoot a tube, when being pressured to do so by the enemy you are aiming to destroy in the first place?

[Han Shot First]

erezike wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

erezike wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The only logical choices are the ones where you either huskify the entire galaxy or rage quit and let the Reapers win?

I'm in a troll thread, aren't I?

You sound so certain the crucible will work.
Surely you have been trolled, Trolled by the catalyst that is.

erezike wrote...

Ugh, it did work.

The Reapers died in my game.

You also see samara and her daugher have fun on an asari world 

What are the chances of samara actually doing that in her lifetime with the relays destroy and the world in ruin?
Thats right, nothing.

The relays aren't destroyed in High EMS endings in the Extended Cut. They are merely damaged. The end game narration in the EC also implies that they get repaired.

erezike wrote...

The visions you see after shepard shoot the tube are just that, visions. you have no idea what follows.

 
The endings being just a hallucination is your head canon. Its not actual in-game canon. You are confusing the two.

erezike wrote...


that is why you also get the cliff-hanger vid of shepard breathing, that vid after his crew declare him dead. isnt that suspicious to you?

There isn't anything suspicious about it.

Tully Ackland on the Breath Scene:

"You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together."

erezike wrote...

So lets forget all the interpretations and wild speculations and focus on what makes sense when you make a decision.

The only one engaging in wild speculation is yourself. Welcome to head canon, population you.

erezike wrote...

Why does it make sense for you to shoot a tube, when being pressured to do so by the enemy you are aiming to destroy in the first place?

Whether or not the endings were well written has no bearing on whether or not the endings can be taken literally, or are meant to be interpreted as some sort of hallucination.

Besides, the indoctrination theory has already been thoroughly debunked. The DLC that was supposed to prove your own personal pet theory never happened, and rather than endorse your theories Bioware went so far as to start deleting threads that even mentioned it.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 18 juillet 2013 - 09:33 .

[Erez Kristal]

I dont find logic in the way the theory that shall not be name work.
But you have just admited to choose an option which doesnt make sense and justified it by saying it was badly written which wildly support my argument.

My argument is from the point of view without metagaming- which you clearly do when making a decision, even if its just the meta gaming of- knowing this is a bioware game and things will work out. its still a meta gaming.

Unless you can give me a reason why trusting the catalyst and shooting the tube make sense to you.

Modifié par erezike, 18 juillet 2013 - 09:47 .

[KaiserShep]

By your logic, control shouldn't make sense either. The Catalyst can tell Shepard that it doesn't look forward to being replaced by him/her. By its own admission, it doesn't want control to happen. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 18 juillet 2013 - 09:51 .

[Han Shot First]

erezike wrote...

I dont find logic in the theory that shall not be name.
But you have just admited to choose an option which doesnt make sense and justified it by saying it was badly written which wildly support my argument.

It doesn't support your argument at all.

Your argument is that because the elements endings don't make sense, they didn't actually happen within the story. That it was all a hallucination..

Here is where that theory falls apart: There are plenty of elements throughout the entirety of the series that don't make sense, that doesn't mean those elements aren't canon. The manner in which Reapers are created for instance, doesn't make a lick of sense. The entire plot of Mass Effect 2 doesn't make sense, when the Reapers could have just FTL'd into the Milky Way. Saren's attack on Eden Prime didn't make sense, when he already had a Prothean beacon (Virmire) and his Spectre status already granted him full access to the Presidium. Ect, Ect.

You may not like the endings, but they're canon. Or at least all of them except Refuse are.

[Erez Kristal]

KaiserShep wrote...

By your logic, control shouldn't make sense either. The Catalyst can tell Shepard that it doesn't look forward to being replaced by him/her. By its own admission, it doesn't want control to happen. 

Thats right, control and destroy both make no sense, hench the headline.

Han Shot First wrote...



Your argument is that because the elements endings don't make sense, they didn't actually happen within the story. That it was all a hallucination..

Here is where that theory falls apart: There are plenty of elements throughout the entirety of the series that don't make sense, that doesn't mean those elements aren't canon. The manner in which Reapers are created for instance, doesn't make a lick of sense. The entire plot of Mass Effect 2 doesn't make sense, when the Reapers could have just FTL'd into the Milky Way. Saren's attack on Eden Prime didn't make sense, when he already had a Prothean beacon (Virmire) and his Spectre status already granted him full access to the Presidium. Ect, Ect.

You may not like the endings, but they're canon. Or at least all of them except Refuse are.

You agree with me that it make no sense for the catalyst to offer and lead you to destroy option, yet you argue against the logic behind refuse?

And you do all of this because you saw some pretty cutscenes after you shot the tube? do i get it right?

If we follow on this logic. what would stop god the almighty to sneeze on the reapers and wipe them all out.
You see we cant do that. we can only try to make sense from the mess we currently have. which is why i claim synthesis and refuse are the only choices which make sense without meta gaming each of them for its own reason.

by the way, i can find reasoning behind everything you mention and everything that happen in mass effect 3. sure it will sound like crap because it is crap most of the time. but it will still be an explanation. when making a decision with out meta gaming -(aka, roleplaying) you can only do it within the knowledge of your character.

Modifié par erezike, 18 juillet 2013 - 10:27 .

[Reorte]

erezike wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

The only logical choices are the ones where you either huskify the entire galaxy or rage quit and let the Reapers win?

I'm in a troll thread, aren't I?

You sound so certain the crucible will work.
Surely you have been trolled, Trolled by the catalyst that is.

And has been pointed out to you several times exactly the same is true for the other choices and it's as certain as can be that everyone is screwed anyway if you do nothing. The only reason for doing nothing is to make absolutely sure that Synthesis doesn't happen but, if you're taking the view that you are Shepard and only know what the character knows, no metagaming, and living within the universe instead of considering what a writer might come up with, then if you believe that Synthesis is possible you'd believe anything and make your choice anyway.

[silverexile17s]

Okay.... where do I even begin?
To me.... these two are ANYTHING but the "logical choice."
Synthesis... Genocide of natural evolution and choice. We will never get to see how evolution would have played out anymore - we basically force everyone down one spifcific path. The same thing the Reapers did.
Refuse ... it's a good concept, but the way BioWare forced it to be is BS. Why make it an instant loss? It basically forced the "you didn't care enough to make the necessary choice" ideal.