748 réponses à ce sujet

[Coyotebay]

With all these (crappy) endings you have to assume two things.  One, that the Crucible actually works, and two, that the Starbrat isn't lying to you about how it works.  Assuming it works takes a ridiculous leap of faith.  Alien technology, the most complicated of all time, you don't even know what it does, and you build it in a matter of months when it should take years or likely decades, and obviously never test it since you still don't know what it does.  Starbrat telling the truth, you just have to accept that he is for the ending to work.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The player is not Shepard. The player just controls Shepard. We as an audience see a lot of things in all three games that Shepard wasn't there for. That doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 12 juillet 2013 - 09:16 .

[teh DRUMPf!!]

What on God's green earth did I just read?

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 12 juillet 2013 - 09:12 .

[Erez Kristal]

I agree synthesis is also open for interpretation aswell as that stargazer scene.
Synthesis is the only scene presented as positive by the reapers, which means they have something to gain by it.
It could also mean that now they have a faster way of harvesting organics. but from the three choices, its the one most likely to do as told.

Refuse is the only safe bet, because you do not rely on the catalyst promises.

[Urazz]

I dunno, to me it seems like the Destroy ending is the more canon choice as everyone and even Shepard himself/herself were saying their mission was to destroy the Reapers.  It also has the most potential for a sequel as well.  They may do a modified Destroy ending for the sequel though if they want to have conflict in the galaxy still and have the Geth around as well.

Synthesis, seems too positive with a peaceful galaxy and Control pretty much also ensures a peaceful galaxy with the Shepard controlled Reapers to act as intergalactic peacekeepers.  I'm not even going to mention what is wrong with the Refuse ending.

Modifié par Urazz, 12 juillet 2013 - 09:17 .

[Ledgend1221]

erezike wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

erezike wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

How do reapers win in Destroy?

Crucible destroyed- shepard almost dead. 
The reapers are still out there, if we lose shepard humanity might well follow.

The reapers die.

How do you know? your shepard is dead.

Yes I do, The game tells me.

[Erez Kristal]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The player is not Shepard. The player just controls Shepard. We see a lot of things in all three games that Shepard wasn't there for. That doesn't mean they didn't happen/

The player assume the role of sheard, which means the play can only know what shepard knows.
This is how Role-playing work.
This is how Acting Works.


The meta gaming was never overly done in past games.  and many of it could be explained with shepard heard the stories from someone else (dockworker, tali recording, miranda stories)
Attempting to adress the ending cutscenes as truth is plain meta-gaming.

[Arcian]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

 
Quite honestly, I killed the Geth already. I'm disgusted with Javik, I'm disgusted with the humans. I'm disgusted with the Krogan. I'm disgusted with the Vorcha. I'm disgusted with the Quarians. I'm disgusted with the Batarians. The Turians aren't impressing me either. I'm not talking about military prowess. These idiots are going to make synthetics again and are going to bring about another situation like the Geth even afterward or worse.

By not including the asari as one of the species you are disgusted with, you just invalidated everything you just said

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Synthesis is the only solution.

And by saying this you just invalidated everything you will ever say in the future.

[Erez Kristal]

Urazz wrote...

I dunno, to me it seems like the Destroy ending is the more canon choice as everyone and even Shepard himself/herself were saying their mission was to destroy the Reapers.  It also has the most potential for a sequel as well.  They may do a modified Destroy ending for the sequel though if they want to have conflict in the galaxy still and have the Geth around as well.

Synthesis, seems too positive with a peaceful galaxy and Control pretty much also ensures a peaceful galaxy with the Shepard controlled Reapers to act as intergalactic peacekeepers.  I'm not even going to mention what is wrong with the Refuse ending.

the plan all along was to destroy the reapers, but shepard and the player have no way of knowning that shooting the reapers will kill them. its goes against all logic and its a very big leap of faith.

Even with shepard shooting the tube, it could still be possibile for the galaxy to win. it will just be a lot harder without shepard.

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Yes I do, The game tells me.

Shepard dreams of being in a forest running after a kid. how do you know that the cutscene in the end isnt shepard last vision, because it also show you a short cutscene of anderson, or your lover. but these are just memories and hopes
You have no way of knowing that these events happen. your character. your point of view in the world of the game is dead.

Modifié par erezike, 12 juillet 2013 - 09:24 .

[AlanC9]

erezike wrote...

Shepard dreams of being in a forest running after a kid. how do you know that the cutscene in the end isnt shepard last vision, because it also show you a short cutscene of anderson, or your lover. but these are just memories and hopes
You have no way of knowing that these events happen. your character. your point of view in the world of the game is dead.

So when I saw Saren and Benezia conversing in ME1, or TIM and Miranda talking in ME2, I don't actually know that these things happened either? Shepard didn't see them happen, after all.

But you're also saying that I can't trust the stuff Shepard did see. So what's left?

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 juillet 2013 - 09:31 .

[AlanC9]

erezike wrote...
The meta gaming was never overly done in past games.  and many of it could be explained with shepard heard the stories from someone else (dockworker, tali recording, miranda stories)

Wait... your  position is that when we see stuff from a POV that usn't our PC's POV, it's reallyfrom the PCs POV anyway?

Seriously?

Attempting to address the ending cutscenes as truth is plain meta-gaming.

It isn't meta-gaming if it happens after we're done playing. Shep's actions can't be influences hy what happens in the ending cutscenes

[Erez Kristal]

its meta gaming if you take what you see as face-value. because the next time you choose you will think its the truth...
Just think through it, you wll then realise that shooting the tube or getting electrified make no sense.
The fact that the argument you make is.
I saw the cutscenes after i shot the tube therefor it happens. Is infact meta-gaming and wishful thinking.

Modifié par erezike, 12 juillet 2013 - 09:41 .

[HiddenInWar]

erezike wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

How do reapers win in Destroy?

Crucible destroyed- shepard almost dead. 
The reapers are still out there, if we lose shepard humanity might well follow.

but the reapers are dead.

kaput, nada, nilch. No more reapers. And mulitiple wikis/walkthroughs/guides confirm shepard survived.

[Erez Kristal]

HiddenInWar wrote...

erezike wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

How do reapers win in Destroy?

Crucible destroyed- shepard almost dead. 
The reapers are still out there, if we lose shepard humanity might well follow.

but the reapers are dead.

kaput, nada, nilch. No more reapers. And mulitiple wikis/walkthroughs/guides confirm shepard survived.

There is also a lot of fanfiction out there. it doesnt mean its true.. you can only believe what you see and know.
Once you are dead. you can no longer see.

[Arcian]

erezike wrote...

HiddenInWar wrote...

erezike wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

How do reapers win in Destroy?

Crucible destroyed- shepard almost dead. 
The reapers are still out there, if we lose shepard humanity might well follow.

but the reapers are dead.

kaput, nada, nilch. No more reapers. And mulitiple wikis/walkthroughs/guides confirm shepard survived.

There is also a lot of fanfiction out there. it doesnt mean its true.. you can only believe what you see and know.
Once you are dead. you can no longer see.

Tell that to Patrick Swayze in Ghost.

[AlexMBrennan]

Refuse - In refuse shepard has a chance to fight another day

To me it looked like Shepard was bleeding to death after everyone on Earth had been killed.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 12 juillet 2013 - 10:11 .

[Ridwan]

Ehhh.. no. Sorry buddy, but if killing a few talking toasters means getting rid of the reapers, you bet that's the right choice.

[Reorte]

erezike wrote...

the plan all along was to destroy the reapers, but shepard and the player have no way of knowning that shooting the reapers will kill them. its goes against all logic and its a very big leap of faith.

The actual action required for any of the choices (apart from Refuse) is equally suspect though, since all seem like "Please kill yourself." Refuse is hardly better though since whatever you chose can hardly make the situation worse (other than perhaps Synthesis). Faced with that all you can do is pick the least absurd sounding solution, which leaves Destroy or Control as being plausible However it's already been revealed to Shepard that the mechanism for Control is far-fetched, beyond the immediate means of activating it. That said, any Shepard that believes that doing one simple little action will end all Reapers everywhere is also making a rather big leap of faith.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

erezike wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The player is not Shepard. The player just controls Shepard. We see a lot of things in all three games that Shepard wasn't there for. That doesn't mean they didn't happen/

The player assume the role of sheard, which means the play can only know what shepard knows.
This is how Role-playing work.
This is how Acting Works.


The meta gaming was never overly done in past games.  and many of it could be explained with shepard heard the stories from someone else (dockworker, tali recording, miranda stories)
Attempting to adress the ending cutscenes as truth is plain meta-gaming.

No. The first scene in the trilogy is Hackett, Anderson and Udina talking about Shepard. Later we see Benezia and Saren talking amonst themselves. In Mass Effect 2 we see Miranda talking to the Illusive Man at their secret base and later the Virmire Survivor on Horizon. At one point we even switch protagonists altogether to play as Joker. In the third game we also see Kai Leng talking to the Illusive Man after h coup and see Kai Leng enter the game before Shepard could have known about him. Shepard can't see any of the space battles from his vantage point either. It's not meta-gaming if it's still in the game.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 12 juillet 2013 - 10:49 .

[Erez Kristal]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Refuse - In refuse shepard has a chance to fight another day

To me it looked like Shepard was bleeding to death after everyone on Earth had been killed.

In what way was this different than the other options? 

In destroy+Control shepard is straight away dead. while in synthesis the reapers get away what they wanted, everyone become cyborgs, reapers are happy.

M25105 wrote...

Ehhh.. no. Sorry buddy, but if killing a few talking toasters means getting rid of the reapers, you bet that's the right choice.

I agree, but you dont have such option. the only thing shooting the tube does is destroy the crucible. thats how these things work. you shoot a machine, it breaks.

Modifié par erezike, 12 juillet 2013 - 10:54 .

[Erez Kristal]

Reorte wrote...

erezike wrote...

the plan all along was to destroy the reapers, but shepard and the player have no way of knowning that shooting the reapers will kill them. its goes against all logic and its a very big leap of faith.

The actual action required for any of the choices (apart from Refuse) is equally suspect though, since all seem like "Please kill yourself." Refuse is hardly better though since whatever you chose can hardly make the situation worse (other than perhaps Synthesis). Faced with that all you can do is pick the least absurd sounding solution, which leaves Destroy or Control as being plausible However it's already been revealed to Shepard that the mechanism for Control is far-fetched, beyond the immediate means of activating it. That said, any Shepard that believes that doing one simple little action will end all Reapers everywhere is also making a rather big leap of faith.

I agree that reuse is hardly better, the only advantage in refuse is that you take control.
All of the other three choices are the choices the catalyst-walters offer you.
You can take them or refuse them.

Out of these options the most favorable by the reapers is synthesis which is why it is most likely to succeed.
Out of the three options its the one with the highest price to pay, turning all organics into cyborgs.
They all require a leap of faith. it just that synthesis make most sense out of the optons you are given.

[Erez Kristal]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

 Shepard can't see any of the space battles from his vantage point either. It's not meta-gaming if it's still in the game.

Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.In simple terms, it is the use of out-of-game information or resources to affect one's in-game decisions.


you can use your imagination to justify most of these cutscenes in me1,me2 and me3. but once your character is finally dead. you cannot any longer take the cutscenes as story-facts.

For example- space battle, shepard recieves transmissions from turian ships and can witness the progress of the spacebattle.
Miranda tells shepard of her talks with the illusive man, shepard sees vids of miranda and the illusive man.
Edi catch transmissions of kai leng to the illusive man.

But if you died and werent patrick swayze. you cannot any longer know whats going on.

[Seboist]

"Refuse" and "logic" don't go in the same sentence.

[Erez Kristal]

Seboist wrote...

"Refuse" and "logic" don't go in the same sentence.

And why is that?

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

erezike wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

 Shepard can't see any of the space battles from his vantage point either. It's not meta-gaming if it's still in the game.

Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.In simple terms, it is the use of out-of-game information or resources to affect one's in-game decisions.


you can use your imagination to justify most of these cutscenes in me1,me2 and me3. but once your character is finally dead. you cannot any longer take the cutscenes as story-facts.

For example- space battle, shepard recieves transmissions from turian ships and can witness the progress of the spacebattle.
Miranda tells shepard of her talks with the illusive man, shepard sees vids of miranda and the illusive man.
Edi catch transmissions of kai leng to the illusive man.

But if you died and werent patrick swayze. you cannot any longer know whats going on.

um no i didn't die,i was sitting on my couch playing a videogame.