748 réponses à ce sujet

[Erez Kristal]

If you can dodge your enemy and create more ships than they can destroy on the long run.
and manage to turn the ballance to your scale. then yes resources such as time and materials are infinite on a galactic scale.

You can easily expect earth, palaven, surkesh and thessia completly destroyed by the time the war is over.
Its going to take anywhere from between 2000 years to 200,000

[KaiserShep]

That's a mighty big if. The great distances between terrestrial worlds that can serve as viable sources of natural resources under this kind of pressure puts a kink in an extremely long term plan. 2,000 years would see functional, if not complete extinction for pretty much all of the major players at that point. Defeat is pretty much on the horizon for these species under these circumstances. There's no way around it. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 19 juillet 2013 - 06:52 .

[Erez Kristal]

KaiserShep wrote...

That's a mighty big if. The great distances between terrestrial worlds that can serve as viable sources of natural resources under this kind of pressure puts a kink in an extremely long term plan. 2,000 years would see functional, if not complete extinction for pretty much all of the major players at that point. Defeat is pretty much on the horizon for these species under these circumstances. There's no way around it. 

Most likely the weak will perish.
Goodbye volus quarrians, drells and hanar.

The krogan, geth, human, turian and salarians will still be giving the reapers a run for their money.

[KaiserShep]

They'd simply be the last holdouts for the final harvest. The Krogan would most likely be the last to have a few specimens left scattered about to meet the death rays.

[Erez Kristal]

More information about killing reapers.

Ingvarr Stormbird wrote...

Some people need to refresh their physics. Btw, maybe some BW writers should too, I suspect nukes are ignored in ME universe mainly because writers didn't actually realize how useful they would be.

"aren't going to do much damage in space"? Seriously?
In atmosphere the released energy converted to superheated air (because it absorbs gamma rays). Ok.
In space, no atmosphere to absorb, no conversion. But the energy of nuclear reaction isnt going anywhere - nobody made law of conservation of energy invalid.
Do you realize what is the gamma ray burst of power of hundred megatons? It will totally melt the Reaper, it does not need blast or to be infrared. Even in atmosphere, the radiative energy is so intense, it will set everything aflame instantly in the radii of tens of kilometers, in space - and in close proximity? Please.
More shielding? Just fine, better absorbtion rate, more heating.
It's a very common mistake, that "only heat rays/infrared carry heat and heat stuff". In fact, any part of EM spectrum will heat things which absorb it nearby - that's why you can make lazer of purely visible light, and it will still melt/cut things, if had enough power. And gamma rays made of higher energy photons than visible light or infrared.
Most peope mistake that "only infrared carries heat", because most of ordinary life heat sources radiate as blackbody - with majority of energy concentrated towards lower end of spectrum.

And if you think that it is "difficult to make it detonate in right time" - seriously, you need to learn which kind of precise timing involving solely in making nuclear weapon (at least of implosion design) to detonate at all. If this problem is already solved, simply making flying bomb to detonate with meter accuracy is not an issue at all.

They only issue is GARDIAN point defence. But multiple-fake-warhead approach could be used to overwhelm it by a lot of "duds" which look exactly like real warheads.

[The Heretic of Time]

erezike wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

erezike wrote...

Lets talk about the no chance of beating the reapers.
What would your shepard do if he just found out the crucible wasnt working.

He would give up, but he would not go down without a fight, even though he would be fully aware that fighting is futile and that all hope is lost.

claiming the fighting is futile sounds to me like giving up.

No s**t Sherlock...

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 19 juillet 2013 - 07:33 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

erezike wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

That's a mighty big if. The great distances between terrestrial worlds that can serve as viable sources of natural resources under this kind of pressure puts a kink in an extremely long term plan. 2,000 years would see functional, if not complete extinction for pretty much all of the major players at that point. Defeat is pretty much on the horizon for these species under these circumstances. There's no way around it. 

Most likely the weak will perish.
Goodbye volus quarrians, drells and hanar.

The krogan, geth, human, turian and salarians will still be giving the reapers a run for their money.

You go into "The End Justifies The Means" mode. You have to become completely unprincipled. Your only purpose is to kill reapers. And sure uplift the Yahg and give them spaceships. Uplift every damned civilization that's beyond iron age, and give them space ships and lasers. Build factories on their worlds to crank out space ships, and use them for labor because they're dead anyway, just like the rest of us. Train them to fight. You fight that terrible war so the next cycle doesn't have to fight a terrible war. Every world goes down fighting.

Let's put it this way. If you plan your battles smart, and fight a guerilla war against the reapers you can make a victory for them very very costly. Earth is toast. Palaven is toast.. They're going to harvest Earth? Make their capitals ship?

1) The Citadel is in flower formation. It is very vulnerable. Focus on the goddamn thing and blow it up. That's right. Blow it up. And get the hell out of there. Hell they may become less coordinated.

2) Well, they are still going to try to harvest Earth. You don't need much. If you made peace with the Geth, send in several geth transports equipped with stealth drives. They've got nukes. 20 MT MIRVs, and they're on suicide missions. Nuke the damned major cities where the largest concentration of reaper capital ships are reaping. Because of atmosphere you will kill a boatloads of them. Your population is already as good as dead, so who gives a damn?

3) Do this on every major world that is getting harvested.

4) Hopefully when the cycle is over their numbers will be down in the low hundreds and the next cycle can crush them. They'll probably rebuild a Citadel, but there won't be an Intelligence in it.

5) Lots of small stealth Frigates that can FTL into atmosphere and fire nukes at reapers. And FTL out before they detonate. Nukes are cheap and they do two things. They kill reapers, and they rob them of troops.

6) The Asari? They were looking into continuity of civilization -- that meant they had a contingency plan already in place. Secret underground vaults with life pods. They'll make it to the next cycle.

7) We can make them chase us around for decades until we get too old to fight. What's left of the Asari navy will be able to hold out for a few centuries.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 19 juillet 2013 - 07:39 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

erezike wrote...

Destroy - shoot tube, destroy crucible. shepard dies or is in very bad health. reapers have easier time winning.
Control - shepard dies, reapers have an easier time to win.
synthesis- reapers have what they want, leave organics alone since they are no longer organics

Refuse - Shepard is alive and Fights to the last. Reapers as a slighter chance to win.

Destroy = Reaper 'off' tube

"You won't just find some long-lost Reaper “off” button."  -Casey Hudson

... I guess that's not totally inaccurate is it?

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 19 juillet 2013 - 08:18 .

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Okay.... where do I even begin?
To me.... these two are ANYTHING but the "logical choice."
Synthesis... Genocide of natural evolution and choice. We will never get to see how evolution would have played out anymore - we basically force everyone down one spifcific path. The same thing the Reapers did.
Refuse ... it's a good concept, but the way BioWare forced it to be is BS. Why make it an instant loss? It basically forced the "you didn't care enough to make the necessary choice" ideal.

Bioware never made it an instant loss- renegade shepard doesnt speak of losing to the catalyst, 
This is the only cutscene where you know for sure shepard lives to fight again.
and even the cutscene afterward that shows liara vid doesnt mean much. it could simply means communication were lost from the different ressistance cells and they are watching liara lore guide 2000 years into the future.
Its all open to interpretation.

But you shouldnt make a decision on base of what bioware show you afterwards.
you should make a decision based on what your character knows at that moment.

Those two choices are the lesser evils, since it would make no sense for you enemy to offer you control and destroy.

So it just goes unspoken that we either sacrifice ourselves or instant loss? How is that any better??
And that scene you are speaking of is post-Destroy. Not Synthesis or Refusal. And we know for a fact that refusal IS instant loss because you see liara's time capsule telling other races that they lost. Again, you fail to realize that with the entire fleet dead over Earth, where else is Shep supposed to go? Now that the Reapers have the Citadel, they can casually undo the prothean locks Vigil's data file put in place, and shut down the entire relay network. Nobody but the Reapers will be able to use the Relays. Meaning that there is no escape from Earth after the attack. All or nothing. Refuse = nothing. No survival. No escape to continue the fight. No resistance cells. NOTHING.

And tell me again how I'm supposed to trust the self-proclaimed embodyment of all Reapers? Who IS my only sorce of information to base off of in that situation.

The choice between these two -- there IS no "lesser evil" between them. Either you scarifice free evoluition and choice for the entire galaxy, or it burns.
Although, it's not like the other choices (Control, Destroy) have a ton of appeal to them either. But these two don't cut it for me -- Especally not Synthesis.

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

If you can dodge your enemy and create more ships than they can destroy on the long run.
and manage to turn the ballance to your scale. then yes resources such as time and materials are infinite on a galactic scale.

You can easily expect earth, palaven, surkesh and thessia completly destroyed by the time the war is over.
Its going to take anywhere from between 2000 years to 200,000

That became completely and utterly impossible after the Illusive Man handed the Reapers the Citadel. Now that they have it, all they need to do is undo the prothean sabotage of the control systems, and they can shut down the relay network to everyone but themselves.
Now, if you had the Citadel still, you could try the long game -- IDK. But it all became moot when TIM gave it to them.

[Erez Kristal]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

erezike wrote...

Destroy - shoot tube, destroy crucible. shepard dies or is in very bad health. reapers have easier time winning.
Control - shepard dies, reapers have an easier time to win.
synthesis- reapers have what they want, leave organics alone since they are no longer organics

Refuse - Shepard is alive and Fights to the last. Reapers as a slighter chance to win.

Destroy = Reaper 'off' tube

"You won't just find some long-lost Reaper “off” button."  -Casey Hudson

... I guess that's not totally inaccurate is it?

When ever i am reminded of these remark i cant help but sigh... Casey proved himself to be the worse dungeon master ever.

[Erez Kristal]

silverexile17s wrote...

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Okay.... where do I even begin?
To me.... these two are ANYTHING but the "logical choice."
Synthesis... Genocide of natural evolution and choice. We will never get to see how evolution would have played out anymore - we basically force everyone down one spifcific path. The same thing the Reapers did.
Refuse ... it's a good concept, but the way BioWare forced it to be is BS. Why make it an instant loss? It basically forced the "you didn't care enough to make the necessary choice" ideal.

Bioware never made it an instant loss- renegade shepard doesnt speak of losing to the catalyst, 
This is the only cutscene where you know for sure shepard lives to fight again.
and even the cutscene afterward that shows liara vid doesnt mean much. it could simply means communication were lost from the different ressistance cells and they are watching liara lore guide 2000 years into the future.
Its all open to interpretation.

But you shouldnt make a decision on base of what bioware show you afterwards.
you should make a decision based on what your character knows at that moment.

Those two choices are the lesser evils, since it would make no sense for you enemy to offer you control and destroy.

So it just goes unspoken that we either sacrifice ourselves or instant loss? How is that any better??
And that scene you are speaking of is post-Destroy. Not Synthesis or Refusal. And we know for a fact that refusal IS instant loss because you see liara's time capsule telling other races that they lost. Again, you fail to realize that with the entire fleet dead over Earth, where else is Shep supposed to go? Now that the Reapers have the Citadel, they can casually undo the prothean locks Vigil's data file put in place, and shut down the entire relay network. Nobody but the Reapers will be able to use the Relays. Meaning that there is no escape from Earth after the attack. All or nothing. Refuse = nothing. No survival. No escape to continue the fight. No resistance cells. NOTHING.

And tell me again how I'm supposed to trust the self-proclaimed embodyment of all Reapers? Who IS my only sorce of information to base off of in that situation.

The choice between these two -- there IS no "lesser evil" between them. Either you scarifice free evoluition and choice for the entire galaxy, or it burns.
Although, it's not like the other choices (Control, Destroy) have a ton of appeal to them either. But these two don't cut it for me -- Especally not Synthesis.

So if a race of aliens get a hold of the mass effect game they will think that earth was plauged by the reapers right?

All you know is that someone somewhere is reading the history books, just like we read the bible

As for thinking that refuse is an insta death- well watch 2:15  learn some resilience from shepard.

[Erez Kristal]

silverexile17s wrote...

erezike wrote...

If you can dodge your enemy and create more ships than they can destroy on the long run.
and manage to turn the ballance to your scale. then yes resources such as time and materials are infinite on a galactic scale.

You can easily expect earth, palaven, surkesh and thessia completly destroyed by the time the war is over.
Its going to take anywhere from between 2000 years to 200,000

That became completely and utterly impossible after the Illusive Man handed the Reapers the Citadel. Now that they have it, all they need to do is undo the prothean sabotage of the control systems, and they can shut down the relay network to everyone but themselves.
Now, if you had the Citadel still, you could try the long game -- IDK. But it all became moot when TIM gave it to them.

All you need is to order the galactic forces to focus on the citadel and blow that station sky high.

[Hey]

i like destroy because everyone is resurrected by miranda and wilsons ghost after... its totally fine

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

silverexile17s wrote...

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Okay.... where do I even begin?
To me.... these two are ANYTHING but the "logical choice."
Synthesis... Genocide of natural evolution and choice. We will never get to see how evolution would have played out anymore - we basically force everyone down one spifcific path. The same thing the Reapers did.
Refuse ... it's a good concept, but the way BioWare forced it to be is BS. Why make it an instant loss? It basically forced the "you didn't care enough to make the necessary choice" ideal.

Bioware never made it an instant loss- renegade shepard doesnt speak of losing to the catalyst, 
This is the only cutscene where you know for sure shepard lives to fight again.
and even the cutscene afterward that shows liara vid doesnt mean much. it could simply means communication were lost from the different ressistance cells and they are watching liara lore guide 2000 years into the future.
Its all open to interpretation.

But you shouldnt make a decision on base of what bioware show you afterwards.
you should make a decision based on what your character knows at that moment.

Those two choices are the lesser evils, since it would make no sense for you enemy to offer you control and destroy.

So it just goes unspoken that we either sacrifice ourselves or instant loss? How is that any better??
And that scene you are speaking of is post-Destroy. Not Synthesis or Refusal. And we know for a fact that refusal IS instant loss because you see liara's time capsule telling other races that they lost. Again, you fail to realize that with the entire fleet dead over Earth, where else is Shep supposed to go? Now that the Reapers have the Citadel, they can casually undo the prothean locks Vigil's data file put in place, and shut down the entire relay network. Nobody but the Reapers will be able to use the Relays. Meaning that there is no escape from Earth after the attack. All or nothing. Refuse = nothing. No survival. No escape to continue the fight. No resistance cells. NOTHING.

And tell me again how I'm supposed to trust the self-proclaimed embodyment of all Reapers? Who IS my only sorce of information to base off of in that situation.

The choice between these two -- there IS no "lesser evil" between them. Either you scarifice free evoluition and choice for the entire galaxy, or it burns.
Although, it's not like the other choices (Control, Destroy) have a ton of appeal to them either. But these two don't cut it for me -- Especally not Synthesis.

Shepard can contact the fleet from the Citadel. But there's a Cutscene DERP happening. Shepard gives a speech instead of contacting Hackett. "This thing is a trap. Focus your attack on the Citadel. Destroy it. I'm serious. Destroy it. Hit it with everything you've got and get the hell out of here."

Shepard is dead. Fight the brutal guerilla war and forget the others. You can escape.

There is so much Cutscene Derp in this story it's ridiculous.

[Erez Kristal]

This is what happens when a roleplaying game becomes a movie.
a very bad movie.

Modifié par erezike, 19 juillet 2013 - 10:18 .

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Okay.... where do I even begin?
To me.... these two are ANYTHING but the "logical choice."
Synthesis... Genocide of natural evolution and choice. We will never get to see how evolution would have played out anymore - we basically force everyone down one spifcific path. The same thing the Reapers did.
Refuse ... it's a good concept, but the way BioWare forced it to be is BS. Why make it an instant loss? It basically forced the "you didn't care enough to make the necessary choice" ideal.

Bioware never made it an instant loss- renegade shepard doesnt speak of losing to the catalyst, 
This is the only cutscene where you know for sure shepard lives to fight again.
and even the cutscene afterward that shows liara vid doesnt mean much. it could simply means communication were lost from the different ressistance cells and they are watching liara lore guide 2000 years into the future.
Its all open to interpretation.

But you shouldnt make a decision on base of what bioware show you afterwards.
you should make a decision based on what your character knows at that moment.

Those two choices are the lesser evils, since it would make no sense for you enemy to offer you control and destroy.

So it just goes unspoken that we either sacrifice ourselves or instant loss? How is that any better??
And that scene you are speaking of is post-Destroy. Not Synthesis or Refusal. And we know for a fact that refusal IS instant loss because you see liara's time capsule telling other races that they lost. Again, you fail to realize that with the entire fleet dead over Earth, where else is Shep supposed to go? Now that the Reapers have the Citadel, they can casually undo the prothean locks Vigil's data file put in place, and shut down the entire relay network. Nobody but the Reapers will be able to use the Relays. Meaning that there is no escape from Earth after the attack. All or nothing. Refuse = nothing. No survival. No escape to continue the fight. No resistance cells. NOTHING.

And tell me again how I'm supposed to trust the self-proclaimed embodyment of all Reapers? Who IS my only sorce of information to base off of in that situation.

The choice between these two -- there IS no "lesser evil" between them. Either you scarifice free evoluition and choice for the entire galaxy, or it burns.
Although, it's not like the other choices (Control, Destroy) have a ton of appeal to them either. But these two don't cut it for me -- Especally not Synthesis.

Shepard can contact the fleet from the Citadel. But there's a Cutscene DERP happening. Shepard gives a speech instead of contacting Hackett. "This thing is a trap. Focus your attack on the Citadel. Destroy it. I'm serious. Destroy it. Hit it with everything you've got and get the hell out of here."

Shepard is dead. Fight the brutal guerilla war and forget the others. You can escape.

There is so much Cutscene Derp in this story it's ridiculous.

Problem with that, though -- the Citadel has the same quantum shielding as the Mass Relays. So, unless you want to smash an asteroid into it, it's not going anywhere.
Unless you want to invert power to the Crucible and make it a giant bomb
Wait..... that's not a half-bad idea.

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

erezike wrote...

If you can dodge your enemy and create more ships than they can destroy on the long run.
and manage to turn the ballance to your scale. then yes resources such as time and materials are infinite on a galactic scale.

You can easily expect earth, palaven, surkesh and thessia completly destroyed by the time the war is over.
Its going to take anywhere from between 2000 years to 200,000

That became completely and utterly impossible after the Illusive Man handed the Reapers the Citadel. Now that they have it, all they need to do is undo the prothean sabotage of the control systems, and they can shut down the relay network to everyone but themselves.
Now, if you had the Citadel still, you could try the long game -- IDK. But it all became moot when TIM gave it to them.

All you need is to order the galactic forces to focus on the citadel and blow that station sky high.

It has the same quantum shielding as the Relays. Gunfire will to jack-all to it. Unless you have an asteroid around half the size of the moon ready, that plan's impossible.

[Erez Kristal]

Quantum shielding on the outside, not the inside.

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Okay.... where do I even begin?
To me.... these two are ANYTHING but the "logical choice."
Synthesis... Genocide of natural evolution and choice. We will never get to see how evolution would have played out anymore - we basically force everyone down one spifcific path. The same thing the Reapers did.
Refuse ... it's a good concept, but the way BioWare forced it to be is BS. Why make it an instant loss? It basically forced the "you didn't care enough to make the necessary choice" ideal.

Bioware never made it an instant loss- renegade shepard doesnt speak of losing to the catalyst, 
This is the only cutscene where you know for sure shepard lives to fight again.
and even the cutscene afterward that shows liara vid doesnt mean much. it could simply means communication were lost from the different ressistance cells and they are watching liara lore guide 2000 years into the future.
Its all open to interpretation.

But you shouldnt make a decision on base of what bioware show you afterwards.
you should make a decision based on what your character knows at that moment.

Those two choices are the lesser evils, since it would make no sense for you enemy to offer you control and destroy.

So it just goes unspoken that we either sacrifice ourselves or instant loss? How is that any better??
And that scene you are speaking of is post-Destroy. Not Synthesis or Refusal. And we know for a fact that refusal IS instant loss because you see liara's time capsule telling other races that they lost. Again, you fail to realize that with the entire fleet dead over Earth, where else is Shep supposed to go? Now that the Reapers have the Citadel, they can casually undo the prothean locks Vigil's data file put in place, and shut down the entire relay network. Nobody but the Reapers will be able to use the Relays. Meaning that there is no escape from Earth after the attack. All or nothing. Refuse = nothing. No survival. No escape to continue the fight. No resistance cells. NOTHING.

And tell me again how I'm supposed to trust the self-proclaimed embodyment of all Reapers? Who IS my only sorce of information to base off of in that situation.

The choice between these two -- there IS no "lesser evil" between them. Either you scarifice free evoluition and choice for the entire galaxy, or it burns.
Although, it's not like the other choices (Control, Destroy) have a ton of appeal to them either. But these two don't cut it for me -- Especally not Synthesis.

So if a race of aliens get a hold of the mass effect game they will think that earth was plauged by the reapers right?

All you know is that someone somewhere is reading the history books, just like we read the bible

As for thinking that refuse is an insta death- well watch 2:15  learn some resilience from shepard.

Well, from the female Stargazer that we see in the aftermath of the "Refuse" ending, proves that Liara's time capsule did the trick. And again, I know that the Citadel controls the entire relay network. And the Reapers have it -- meaning they can cut off the relay network. Something we know they have done before, because Vigil on Ilos tells us that's how the Reapers beat the protheans -- they severed their travel routes by coming through the Citadel Relay.

All I leared was that Shepard just stood there watching the entire fleet die. Hackett and Anderson both told you right before Earth conventional victory was not possible -- they devoted the majority of their resources to the Crucible -- all those stockpiles you taked about? Used up to make the Crucible. This is literally the last shot.

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

Quantum shielding on the outside, not the inside.

Nope. The city-spires don't count -- they're artifically made by the Council races. It would be like wiping a layer of paint off titanium steel. No effect. It's quantum shielded on Both sides, underneath the layer of Council-made city.

[Erez Kristal]

silverexile17s wrote...

erezike wrote...

Quantum shielding on the outside, not the inside.

Nope. The city-spires don't count -- they're artifically made by the Council races. It would be like wiping a layer of paint off titanium steel. No effect. It's quantum shielded on Both sides, underneath the layer of Council-made city.

Launch the moon then? 

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

erezike wrote...

Quantum shielding on the outside, not the inside.

Nope. The city-spires don't count -- they're artifically made by the Council races. It would be like wiping a layer of paint off titanium steel. No effect. It's quantum shielded on Both sides, underneath the layer of Council-made city.

Launch the moon then? 

....Tell me you don't actually think that would work? There isn't enough resources left in the galaxy after building the Crucible.

[KaiserShep]

Sounds like a great plan, provided that the intended goal was to obliterate the planet. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 19 juillet 2013 - 08:22 .