748 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

[quote]erezike wrote...
 Easy, because right now. we arent discussing if the crucible is really a trap or what happens in the cutscenes.
We are discussing if shooting the tube or shepard electrifying himself makes any sense.[/quote]

OK, but then you really need to stop saying crap like "Dont be naive... the reapers and the catalyst were playing you all along." It's not only false, it's irrelevant.


As for your 15 points:

[quote]
1) how come we suddenly found a reaper off switch that the reapers knew of.  Why is the crucible different in our circle.[/quote]
That's two questions. 1: we got lucky. 2: It isn't.
[quote]
2) why didnt the reapers take control of the citadel until now.
[/quote]
They didn't know they needed to.

[quote]
3) how am i alive?[/quote]

They thought they'd killed everyone. They were wrong.

[quote]
4) why isnt harbinger shooting the normandy[/quote]

Not relevant, since the ship doesn't threaten the Reapers the way someone getting to the beam does. (Actually, I'll play bad writing here)

[quote]
5) why was the beam still open[/quote]

Beats me. If you want to make a thread about this, go for it.

[quote]
6) why is harbinger leaving.[/quote]

He thinks he's won. See #3.

[quote]
7) where is the rest of the reaper ressitance: 3 husks and one huskified turian, seriously?[/quote]

Shot by other soldiers.

[quote]
8) how come its so easy for me to reach the citadel control panel.[/quote]

They thought TIM had it covered.

[quote]
9) if the beam was still open where are the rest of the forces, surely someone heard anderson or me over the radio[/quote]

They probably did send more people eventually. The beam lets people out in different places

[quote]
10) why did the catalyst elevate me up and didnt leave me to bleed on the floor
11) why is the catalsty pressuring on me to choose one of his three chocies[/quote]

The Crucible changed him.

[quote]
12) why cant the catalyst just send the reapers into the sun
13) why doesnt the catalyst stop killing my friends while we negotiate[/quote]

Reapers are programmed when they're created. The Catalyst can't reprogram the existing Reapers without the power of the Crucible.

[quote]
14) why cant i blow the tube in a different way, why doesnt the catalyst do it himself or try to stop me.[/quote]

The Crucible changed him, but not enough.

[quote]
15) since when does shooting a tube activate a machine instead of destroying it.
[/quote]

Beats me.

So, you've still got a couple points left. Now what?

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 juillet 2013 - 06:11 .

[Erez Kristal]

KaiserShep wrote...

The concept of unlimited energy is preposterous, even in the MEU, so I don't entertain this concept. I'm curious as to how this is related to whether or not its run on the Citadel is a good plan depending on whether the Crucible is possibly a reaper trap laid in waiting.

a)the crucible could be a trap meant to force the galactic force to retake the citadel with heavy casualtes.
b)The amount of resources required to build it would also grealty hindered the galactic forces.

c) the crucible could offer functions that would benefit the reapers.

these three reasons make it a viable trap option.

Modifié par erezike, 25 juillet 2013 - 06:11 .

[Erez Kristal]

[quote]AlanC9 wrote...

[quote]erezike wrote...
 Easy, because right now. we arent discussing if the crucible is really a trap or what happens in the cutscenes.
We are discussing if shooting the tube or shepard electrifying himself makes any sense.[/quote]

OK, but then you really need to stop saying crap like "Dont be naive... the reapers and the catalyst were playing you all along." It's not only false, it's irrelevant.


As for your 15 points:

[quote]
1) how come we suddenly found a reaper off switch that the reapers knew of.  Why is the crucible different in our circle.[/quote]
That's two questions. 1: we got lucky. 2: It isn't.
[quote]
2) why didnt the reapers take control of the citadel until now.
[/quote]
They didn't know they needed to.

[quote]
3) how am i alive?[/quote]

They thought they'd killed everyone. They were wrong.

[quote]
4) why isnt harbinger shooting the normandy[/quote]

Not relevant, since the ship doesn't threaten the Reapers the way someone getting to the beam does. (Actually, I'll play bad writing here)

[quote]
5) why was the beam still open[/quote]

Beats me. If you want to make a thread about this, go for it.

[quote]
6) why is harbinger leaving.[/quote]

He thinks he's won. See #3.

[quote]
7) where is the rest of the reaper ressitance: 3 husks and one huskified turian, seriously?[/quote]

Shot by other soldiers.

[quote]
8) how come its so easy for me to reach the citadel control panel.[/quote]

They thought TIM had it covered.

[quote]
9) if the beam was still open where are the rest of the forces, surely someone heard anderson or me over the radio[/quote]

They probably did send more people eventually. The beam lets people out in different places

[quote]
10) why did the catalyst elevate me up and didnt leave me to bleed on the floor
11) why is the catalsty pressuring on me to choose one of his three chocies[/quote]

The Crucible changed him.

[quote]
12) why cant the catalyst just send the reapers into the sun
13) why doesnt the catalyst stop killing my friends while we negotiate[/quote]

Reapers are programmed when they're created. The Catalyst can't reprogram the existing Reapers without the power of the Crucible.

[quote]
14) why cant i blow the tube in a different way, why doesnt the catalyst do it himself or try to stop me.[/quote]

The Crucible changed him, but not enough.

[quote]
15) since when does shooting a tube activate a machine instead of destroying it.
[/quote]

Beats me.

So, you've still got a couple points left. Now what?

[/quote] since you managed to answer those 15 questions flawlessly (especialy the part about the captial ship leaving) i was left utterly convinced and shall stop this debate at once. i liked even more the part about the reapers thinking they killed eveyone, the we got lucky part and tim was enough to stop whoever got into the beam. Nothing like a good bunch of getting lucky and deus ex machina to help deliver your point:wizard:

[KaiserShep]

The condescending is strong with this one.

erezike wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

The
concept of unlimited energy is preposterous, even in the MEU, so I don't
entertain this concept. I'm curious as to how this is related to
whether or not its run on the Citadel is  good plan depending on
whether the Crucible is possibly a reaper trap laid in waiting.

a)the crucible could be a trap meant to force the galactic force to
retake the citadel with heavy casualtes.
b)The amount of resources required to build it would also grealty hindered the galactic forces.

c) the crucible could offer functions that would benefiat the reapers.

these three reasons make it a viable trap option.

These would be the conjuring of a reaper that no one seems to take seriously.

Cycle 41

Reaper 458: How about we make the organics build some weird voodoo device that will distract them for a while and use up their resources? Maybe if they complete it, it'll just cripple all but the Citadel relay! It'll be brilliant!

Harbinger: Why do we need this crap? We can just pour through the relay and do that ourselves.

Reaper 458: What if someone sabotages it?

Harbinger: Hello? We left Sovereign behind. He'll sort all this crap out. You'll see.

Reaper 458: Whatever. I'll just seed the plans anyway. What's the harm?

Harbinger: You do that.

Cycle 42.

Reaper 458: Ha ha real funny guys. Stop destroying records of my design!

Cycle 1,080

Reaper 458: F*** it. I hope they turn it into a kill switch and murder all of us.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 25 juillet 2013 - 06:41 .

[Erez Kristal]

KaiserShep wrote...

The condescending is strong with this one.

I understand you have failed to produce legitimate facts to support your assumptions. your white flag is accepted.

Modifié par erezike, 25 juillet 2013 - 06:38 .

[AlanC9]

  @KaiserShep: It's not like anyone expected better. You show up for an erezike thread, you know what you're gonna get.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 juillet 2013 - 06:41 .

[Erez Kristal]

AlanC9 wrote...

It's not like anyone expected better.

 http://www.gamefaqs....95452-/59533800

http://social.biowar...13041752-1.html

http://social.biowar...5463/6#15299461


An old beam discussion http://social.biowar...13042769-1.html

Modifié par erezike, 25 juillet 2013 - 06:43 .

[AlanC9]

I'm sure that was supposed to mean something.

[KaiserShep]

erezike wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

The condescending is strong with this one.

I understand you have failed to produce legitimate facts to support your assumptions. your white flag is accepted.

Interesting response to what is simply a note on what seems to be poor attitude. Just the same, your choice of words does strike me as being notably condescending, which only exacerbates the frustration of this nerdlinger wrestling match of logic and speculation. You're fooling yourself if you didn't expect flippant responses.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 25 juillet 2013 - 06:49 .

[Erez Kristal]

KaiserShep wrote...


These would be the conjuring of a reaper that no one seems to take seriously.

Cycle 41

Reaper 458: How about we make the organics build some weird voodoo device that will distract them for a while and use up their resources? Maybe if they complete it, it'll just cripple all but the Citadel relay! It'll be brilliant!

Harbinger: Why do we need this crap? We can just pour through the relay and do that ourselves.

Reaper 458: What if someone sabotages it?

Harbinger: Hello? We left Sovereign behind. He'll sort all this crap out. You'll see.

Reaper 458: Whatever. I'll just seed the plans anyway. What's the harm?

Harbinger: You do that.

Cycle 42.

Reaper 458: Ha ha real funny guys. Stop destroying records of my design!

Cycle 1,080

Reaper 458: F*** it. I hope they turn it into a kill switch and murder all of us.

 once again you assume the repaers deleted all trace of the crucible, or maybe they simply left to you what they wanted you to find??

at the point of decision making, shepard has no way to know. and recent evidence points the reapers are behaving strangely.


Everything feels too easy. finding the crucible plands and everything that happens after shepard get shot by the beam.

[Erez Kristal]

KaiserShep wrote...

erezike wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

The condescending is strong with this one.

I understand you have failed to produce legitimate facts to support your assumptions. your white flag is accepted.

Interesting response to what is simply a note on what seems to be poor attitude. Just the same, your choice of words does strike me as being notably condescending, which only exacerbates the frustration of this nerdlinger wrestling match of logic and speculation. You're fooling yourself if you didn't expect flippant responses.

You constantly turn your assumptions and present them as facts and im the condescending one?
You fail at establishing an solid argument. you try to sway this argument to a judgment of my character instead of admiting your false presumptions.

No my friend you are the condescending one because you fail to admit anyone else opinion but those who already think like you do.
You arent nearly as open mind as you see your would think yourself to be.

[KaiserShep]

It's just a joke, buddy. Within the "logic" of the joke, from the reapers' perspective, all plans would have been eradicated, under the assumption that they themselves did not seed the plans in the first place.


Essentially, this is all speculation vs. speculation. There are no hard facts with some broad spectrum of numbers like a spreadsheet that's been reviewed in triplicate, signed, reviewed again and buried in soft peat for 3 months to support either side, and there are plenty of valid reasons, in my opinion, as to why it doesn't make sense that the Crucible is a trap. Could it be? Possibly. I don't see it being a terribly reliable plan at all, given that they could've gone through any number of avenues to make this a more solid contingency. This was actually something I considered when I was first presented with these choices, because if I was really stepping into Shepard's shoes, part of me would be mulling around in the idea that all options simply lead to my gruesome death and failure to save the galaxy. If I start playing around with the ideas of maybe this is all a cosmic case of reverse psychology, then my last wish would be for the catalyst to score me a few lines of cocaine so I can let the chips fall where they may. But the more I thought about it, the less sense the trap element seemed to me. So I had a choice. I could either take its choices on face value, and that it really is simply illustrating the functions it's capable of, or I can just let the reapers continue to kill everything, which they're clearly doing in a nice panoramic view from the Citadel platform.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 25 juillet 2013 - 07:04 .

[masster blaster]

Alan I find that Harbinger thought it just killed Shepard, and just left bs. Harbinger the one Reaper who is guarding the beam run single shots every Alliance soldier advancing, taking down Mako's, and gunships just leaves Shepard on the ground without scanning his/her body. Not to mention Harbinger in ME2 sent the collectors to RETRIEVE Shepard's corpse. I would guess that if Harbinger was there at the time Harbinger would have gone after Shepard's body personally. Let's be honest if Shepard got "hit" by Harbingers laser Shepard would have been nothing but dust. We can clearly see that if Shepard was hit by the Reaper Destroy just by a single touch can die immediately, yet Harbinger did not hit Shepard directly, and Harbinger clearly has excellent aim as Harbinger alone is taking on army's of troops, and transportation.


Also the Reapers are programmed when they were created..............If a mer synthetic can go against it's original programming I think a Reaper can do the same. The catalyst has the power, yet clearly does not want to do it. Also You do realize that the Reapers although have they want to harvest " organic life" they view organics differently, and treat them differently. I mean Harbinger in ME2 singles out any squad mates race. Only Humanity is WORTHY to BECOME a Reaper. Everyone else not so lucky. And to think the catalyst claims to " preserve" organic life.

Also the crucible changed him...I call bs. That's like saying someone just found god and everything is going to be okay despite the fact they raped, killed, and stole the lives of other people without giving a rat's butt. Which the catalyst hold no regrets of harvesting, and killing trillions of organics.

Also let's not also forget the fact that Coat's can be seen on the Citadel. So....I find it hard to believe if Coat's called in the retreat he would not be up on the Citadel already dead. ( He can be seen on the Citadel when the Keeper takes off his helmet, which is funny since Coat's never had a helmet with him. However you can see his forehead, but if you use fly cam you can see it's him. Bioware never attempted to fix that in any update patch, or dlc, so it seems to me it was intentional.)

Modifié par masster blaster, 25 juillet 2013 - 07:03 .

[Erez Kristal]

KaiserShep wrote...

It's just a joke, buddy. Within the "logic" of the joke, from the reapers' perspective, all plans would have been eradicated, under the assumption that they themselves did not seed the plans in the first place.


Essentially, this is all speculation vs. speculation. There are no hard facts to support either side, and there are plenty of valid reasons, in my opinion, as to why it doesn't make sense that the Crucible is a trap. Could it be? Possibly. I don't see it being a terribly reliable plan at all, given that they could've gone through any number of avenues to make this a more solid contingency.

i know and it was a good joke, but all we have to deal here with are assumptions.
my focus is mainly on the last 15 minutes from the moment shepard is hit by the beam.

Everything is too convenient. 
Im as a player think it to be terribile writing.
but if i have to roleplay shepard. these things just dont add up.
which is why without meta gaming and basing you decisions only on what shepard knows in game. refuse and synthesis are the only logical choices.

If you answered yes to one of the three questions i first asked
1)  do you think the catalyst is tell the truth
2) do you see no alternatives
3) is submission preferable to extinction.

then our debate is pointless and will continue to lead no where.

[KaiserShep]

Convenient is a strong word. I don't think I'd appreciate the convenience limping around with 3rd degree burns.

[masster blaster]

I don't trust the Catalyst, nor do I believe synthesis and refuse are the logical choices. Destroy is the most logical because out of all the things that have happened, out of all the f'ed up stiff the catalyst had done the galaxy needs a fresh start, and not continue the events that have happened from some things direct control of other organics, and synthetics lives. Yes yes the geth ,and EDI died, but let's be honest look at all the troops that are dying for EARTH! that was the hole point. To gather the galaxy's troops to "retake Earth" Only when the Reapers captured the Citadel, and the crucible was done did Earth stood for the battle to end all wars. Also for those that say well cycle starts all over again....and so what if it does. That's up to the future organics, and synthetics when built to decide. If synthesis is to happen, then let it happen the right way. By letting evolution DO what it does.

[Erez Kristal]

KaiserShep wrote...

Convenient is a strong word. I don't think I'd appreciate the convenience limping around with 3rd degree burns.

in for a lie to work the person your are lying to has to believe it.
if its too obvious the lie would fail.

[Erez Kristal]

masster blaster wrote...

I don't trust the Catalyst, nor do I believe synthesis and refuse are the logical choices. Destroy is the most logical because out of all the things that have happened, out of all the f'ed up stiff the catalyst had done the galaxy needs a fresh start, and not continue the events that have happened from some things direct control of other organics, and synthetics lives. Yes yes the geth ,and EDI died, but let's be honest look at all the troops that are dying for EARTH! that was the hole point. To gather the galaxy's troops to "retake Earth" Only when the Reapers captured the Citadel, and the crucible was done did Earth stood for the battle to end all wars. Also for those that say well cycle starts all over again....and so what if it does. That's up to the future organics, and synthetics when built to decide. If synthesis is to happen, then let it happen the right way. By letting evolution DO what it does.

Destroy is the best choice. if it will work. why do you believe destroy would work?

[masster blaster]

I believe depending on your Shepard's actions/ choices if the Geth were seen as heroes, and the Quaiaran peace admiral and Tali help build the relationship between the synthetics peace may last. Assuming you did not do anything to help the organics see that synthetics just want the same rights, and things organics wish synthetics have. Not only that but if Wrex, and Eve are alive and are leading the Korgans, then there is still hope. Also if Kirrha survived the battle, I am sure he would return home and get rid of that dalo Salairan and make peace with the Korgan. There are many ways Destroy can go, and there are many good or bad ways the future can lead to if you look at the choices you made. Which is why I like Destroy and think it can work out. In Synthesis....what future is there. This is a peace bast on what the Catalyst wanted from the beginning. This peace is a lie, and it was based on a leap of faith with NO bad choices that Shepard made even matter. For one JAVIK would NEVER consider the Reapers has friends, nor stop until the Reapers are ALL DEAD. Leviathans would never have the Reapers or any organic and synthetics as equals. Hackett for Christ sack does not even consider of letting the Reapers live, nor will he. Our squad mates know how f'ed up the Reapers are, and if any one of them you did not help is either KILLED ,or the Reapers/ Cerberus TURN them into their foot soldiers. Not to mention Synthesis has the organics inside the Reapers live, as does the husk troops. I can never let that happen. They need to die. It's not right for them to live that way, nor should they. They were forced to be that way, they were forced to be enslaved to their will. Killing them is destroy is giving them a final wish they probably so longed for imo.

However the point is do I think it will work yet, do I think the peace may last, maybe, however it may seem Destroy imp is far better than synthesis and Refuse, and that of Control end because it ALLOWS FREEDOM, and a FRESH new start. Synthesis and Control only continue all the work the catalyst had done, and for Refuse the organics in the future probably don't even know what to do with their synthetics, since they have no one to guid them to show the good side of synthetics.

Modifié par masster blaster, 25 juillet 2013 - 07:26 .

[silverexile17s]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

If every single cycle before now never managed to survive, what makes you think the Asari are going to? They will be harvested just like every other race.
LOL, what??? This cycle did NOTHING with it's warrning. No one even believed in the Reapers until they could physically see them.
Also, go to the Wiki. The protheans did have a heads up, and spent roughly a decade acting on it the moment they got it. They built up defenses, they excivated the Crucible and begain working on it's design. Hell, half the reason they started their empire was because they discovered mention of the Reapers in the ruins of past races. They did ten times more with their heads-up then this cycle did. Javik says so himself.  

What? When the hell is anything like this ever said? I've played this game a dozen times and spent more than a year on this forum and this is literally the first time I've ever heard of the protheans having advanced warning of the Reapers and acting on it.

Geth Dreadnought. You have to have a playthrough where Tali is dead, and bring Liara & Javik to the Geth Dreadnought. Javik mentions that the protheans had a forewarning about the Reapers.

[Erez Kristal]

Master blaster you missed my point.
My question was, why do you think shooting the tube will trigger the reapers kills switch?

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...


1) No - you messed that part up.
That's a situation where there ISN'T any choice but to go off of what you have. I'm talking about your idea that the Reapers could ever be conventonally defeated.
In regards to the Catalyst, he has no reason to lie anymore -- Shepard is his "new variable." Lying will ruin the "final result." This is all just a grandose lab experiment to him -- he can't lie at this point because then he will never know what Shepard's true answer would have been. He wants Shepard to make an honest choice to validate the results of the Reapers actions and see if it was worth it or not. That's all he cares about - how the unknown variable will react in the final stage.
And Refuse offers the absolute least amount of control and dierection out of all the endings. (t's basically consenting defeat because you didn't have the stomach to do any of the other arbitrary choices. Yes, the choices suck, but the only consolation is that everyone lives at the end. That's Not the case with Refuse -- you have zero choice and zero chance.You can't do anything in that besides watch everything die. We knew from day one when Sovergein torched Eden Prime and tore through the Citadel Fleets that this was never going to be won conventionally. This is the only shot -- for better, or worse. There literally isn't a choice left here.

2) Again, No. Every single race died. The krogan, the turians, the asari -- All of them were harvested to make Destroyers (Codex reveals that all races not used to make a Sovergein-Class Reaper are used to make Destroyer-Class Reapers). They would be made into Destroyers.
And again, there is no longer any reason for the Catalyst to lie anymore. This is the conclusion of it's experiment -- it has to see how the final "Solution" plays out. It won't spoil the conclusion of it's own experiment with a lie. Not now.

3) Name me one time that Harbinger had the chance to kill Shepard place so openly to him, and yet didn't take it. Shepard was right in front of him. He could have killed Shepard. He did not. He did not see Shepard as anything more then "dust on the wind."  Also, you seem to be making a major misconception -- Shepard didn't do any of that alone. Hackett killed Sovergein -- Shepard stunned it. Shepard's team was escental to attacking the Collector Base - the Commander would have died had he/she tried it alone.
And in the end, what exactally did that "intrest" ammount to? Nothing. He didn't bother to capture Shepard once. And by the time of the Earth invasion, Shepard was no more a threat to Harbinger then the thousands of other soldiers he'd just now wiped out in front of the Conduit.
Also - YES. Shepard's debrief spicifically listed Harbinger's name, and details about his design and apperance from files taken from the Collector Base durning the attack on it at the end of ME2. So - yes, the Alliance does know it's Harbinger. Anderson even says his name, and that Alliance intel I.D'd him coming down to Earth. There isn't a single soldier fighting the Reapers that doesn't know what Harbinger looks like or who he is at this point.
Shepard looks pretty damn alone on the Citadel with the Catalyst. And Refuse pretty conclusively proves that if we "let him," all we get is an instant loss. There are some battles that just can't be won on faith alone, you know. Call me fatalistic, but having had family that fought in WWII, I pretty much grew up around the fact that belief only carries someone so far.

1) how about a quicker victory? thats a good reason to lie no? 2)
how do you know that everu race die? did you play the game 20,000 years into the future. or watching liara vids made in 2187 is worth into knowing what happened in 3187 long after she died.

3) Arrival, Run to the beam and when shepad walks up to it and harbinger takes a hike(care to explain that hike)  (shepard had a list of reaper files... where did we learn this, i)

1) You think the Catalyst cares what spicific time he gets his victory???
Time is complely irrlivent to him. There's nothing anyone can do to stop the Reapers. Their power outstrips everyone elses. In the eyes of the Catalyst, it doesn't matter how fast victory comes -- victory is a presumed garuntee for the Reapers from where the Catalyst stands. They don't Care about speed -- just that the job gets done. They are through and meticulous - they take their time. Slow or fast has no bearing on their choice -- just which one yeilds the best results. Time is irrlivent to them. So, again - no. That again has no bearing on his choice, since he believes the Reapers have all the time in the world. The organics are going to lose anyway -- the entire space battle was a massive diversion for the Crucible to be deployed. If it doesn't go off, he wins anyway. He literally has nothing to lose, and thus, no reason to lie. Any of the three choices ends the "experiment to bring order to chaos." It's just a matter of what choice the indipenent variable will take. Will it see things his way (Synthesis), will it direct the experiment itself (Control), or will it wipe it clean for a fresh start (Destroy)?


2) Um... because she said so?? She said that they finshed the fight that the last cycle left unfinsihed. And Look at the past cycles. How many races besides the Leviathans (likely finally harvested since they threw their lot in this time as well) survived the cycles? None of them. Not one race ever survived the cycles. What makes you think any would now??
Also, it's 50,000 years. Every cycle is 50,000 years. Not 20,000.

3) How about "Shepard is a walking corpse and no longer any form of threat"? I mean, does Shepard look all that threatening after being roasted by Harbinger's beam?? Does it look like it would take more then a puff of air to knock the Commander over? Hell, if not for the Catalyst, Shepard would have passed out and bleed out next to the bodies of Anderson and the Illusive Man (major irony). I mean, Harbinger stopped Shepard cold with one beam. Shepard was no threat to Harbinger -- I mean, what can you do at that point, bleed on Harbinger?

Also - End of ME2. When Shepard visits the cargo bay where the squad is patching up the Normandy after the Suicide Mission, Joker hands Shepard a datapad containing detailed specs of Harbinger -- information that could only have come from the Collector Base. After all, there were many computers on that base that could be accessed. Perhaps by one of the squadmates during the many times the team split up during the mission.

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

Master blaster you missed my point.
My question was, why do you think shooting the tube will trigger the reapers kills switch?

Because the Catalyst has nothing to hide anymore. He's going to win no matter what - why lie now? He sees this all as a grandiose experiment. All the work he's put into this venture? It's not really important to him -- he doesn't care about the task itself. He just wants to see what the result is -- his curiousity drives him at this point. He wants to know if the indipendant varible that did the impossible (break his Solution) will agree with his path (Synthesis), direct it themself (Control), or wipe it away for a fresh start (Destroy). You seem to think that the  Catalyst cares about the effort that this took. He doesn't. He just sees this as another task to fulfill -- and wants to see if their indpendent variable will go the same way. Lying will "spoil the result."

THAT'S why he trusts shooting the tube will kill the Reapers -- because the Catalyst has no reason to lie anymore. This is the endgame -- his Solution is flawed, so he'd have to choose a new path. He's letting Shepard decide if they should, or if they should end it now. He's curious to how Shepard will end or continue the experiment.

[Erez Kristal]

silverexile17s wrote...

1) You think the Catalyst cares what spicific time he gets his victory???



2) Um... because she said so?? She said that they finshed the fight that the last cycle left unfinsihed. And Look at the past cycles. How many races besides the Leviathans (likely finally harvested since they threw their lot in this time as well) survived the cycles? None of them. Not one race ever survived the cycles. What makes you think any would now??
Also, it's 50,000 years. Every cycle is 50,000 years. Not 20,000.

3) How about "Shepard is a walking corpse and no longer any form of threat"? I mean, does Shepard look all that threatening after being roasted by Harbinger's beam?? Does it look like it would take more then a puff of air to knock the Commander over? Hell, if not for the Catalyst, Shepard would have passed out and bleed out next to the bodies of Anderson and the Illusive Man (major irony). I mean, Harbinger stopped Shepard cold with one beam. Shepard was no threat to Harbinger -- I mean, what can you do at that point, bleed on Harbinger?

Also - End of ME2. When Shepard visits the cargo bay where the squad is patching up the Normandy after the Suicide Mission, Joker hands Shepard a datapad containing detailed specs of Harbinger -- information that could only have come from the Collector Base. After all, there were many computers on that base that could be accessed. Perhaps by one of the squadmates during the many times the team split up during the mission.

the reapers took casualties in the war, thats a fact. the reapers had a few foiled plans so far. thats a fact. the reapers look for efficent ways to work. you can say that they wouldnt want to hurry up. but judging from their actions. they dont seem to be taking their time with thing either. so yes i think the catalyst greatly care at what time it gets its victory.
2) She said so in 2187.
it could also be that liara didnt live to see that cycle ends, or this wass but the first recording out of many when things look truly desperate. either way, there is not telling what really happens. and even if there were it was irrelevant to the decision making.
3) shepard is injured, give him a few days and he just like new. as long as shepard is alive hes a threat. saying otherwise is fallacy. 
The capital ship which leaves the beam guard duty makes no sense unless the reapers wanted shepard to enter the beam.

[Erez Kristal]

silverexile17s wrote...

erezike wrote...

Master blaster you missed my point.
My question was, why do you think shooting the tube will trigger the reapers kills switch?

Because the Catalyst has nothing to hide anymore. He's going to win no matter what - why lie now? He sees this all as a grandiose experiment. All the work he's put into this venture? It's not really important to him -- he doesn't care about the task itself. He just wants to see what the result is -- his curiousity drives him at this point. He wants to know if the indipendant varible that did the impossible (break his Solution) will agree with his path (Synthesis), direct it themself (Control), or wipe it away for a fresh start (Destroy). You seem to think that the  Catalyst cares about the effort that this took. He doesn't. He just sees this as another task to fulfill -- and wants to see if their indpendent variable will go the same way. Lying will "spoil the result."

THAT'S why he trusts shooting the tube will kill the Reapers -- because the Catalyst has no reason to lie anymore. This is the endgame -- his Solution is flawed, so he'd have to choose a new path. He's letting Shepard decide if they should, or if they should end it now. He's curious to how Shepard will end or continue the experiment.

since you answered yes to the question
to two of the three questions
1) is the catalyst speaking the truth
2) do you see no alternatives

you will never understand refuse.
you in your mind have already given up.
You went from the reapers are my enemies to.
the reapers arent that bad, they were just idiots who didnt know better.  so instead of looking at the facts, you tailor a story that will support your thesis.

You dont know what the catalyst really care about because you arent the catalyst
you can only judge the facts. and the facts are.
the beam was open, there were very few reaper ground forces guarding the beam and none on the citadel.
Harbinger left the beam for no reason. the catalyst elvated you to the crucible chamber and also told you your choices while telling his mooks to murder your friends as you were debating. What a pal!