748 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

erezike wrote...

Seboist wrote...

"Refuse" and "logic" don't go in the same sentence.

And why is that?

Is there something logical about damning galactic civilization because of one man's ego that I'm not aware of?

[The Night Mammoth]

You're basically saying that you can't trust everything the game shows and tells you, except for the parts that happen to support your argument. Where's the logic in that, exactly?

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 12 juillet 2013 - 11:17 .

[Erez Kristal]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

um no i didn't die,i was sitting on my couch playing a videogame.

Come on You can do better than this.
Three posts, all failed trolling attempts.

Stop trolling and start debating.

[The Heretic of Time]

erezike wrote...

Destroy - shoot tube, destroy crucible. shepard dies or is in very bad health. reapers win.
Control - shepard dies, reapers learn all they need about shepard. can create a clone with their agenda.
synthesis- reapers have what they want, leave organics alone since they are no longer organics

You have a veeeeeery weird perspective on the endings. Please elaborate what kind of grasping at straws brought you to these views of epic headcanon porportions.

[Erez Kristal]

Seboist wrote...

Is there something logical about damning galactic civilization because of one man's ego that I'm not aware of?

but it has nothing to do with one man ego. its about the choics you have.
Are you willing to take a leap of faith to do something which goes against logic after hearing it from the reaper god who has a much more simple solution to the problem but insist on you doing something which goes against all logic.
The cataylst could simply turn away the reapers, he doesnt need you to destroy it and the reapers or take control of them in order to stop the killing. it can do all that by himself. 

So you are left with two real choices.
Synthesis or refuse.
Are you willing to turn everyone in the galaxy into cyborgs and let them survive, or do you prefer you and them to look for another way for defeating the reapers and take the chances of going down fighting.

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

erezike wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

um no i didn't die,i was sitting on my couch playing a videogame.

Come on You can do better than this.
Three posts, all failed trolling attempts.

Stop trolling and start debating.

DEBATE ABOUT WHAT?Your posts don't make any sense.Everything you see after Shepard dies is real because that's what the developers(BioWare) wanted to show that happened.The player is not Shepard,Shepard is Shepard and the player is the player.

[Erez Kristal]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

You're basically saying that you can't trust everything the game shows and tells you, except for the parts that happen to support your argument. Where's the logic in that, exactly?

When did i say that?
I said you cannot trust the cutscenes shown after your character is dead. 
that is it.
you still avoided the main topics in my thread.

[Erez Kristal]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

erezike wrote...

Destroy - shoot tube, destroy crucible. shepard dies or is in very bad health. reapers win.
Control - shepard dies, reapers learn all they need about shepard. can create a clone with their agenda.
synthesis- reapers have what they want, leave organics alone since they are no longer organics

You have a veeeeeery weird perspective on the endings. Please elaborate what kind of grasping at straws brought you to these views of epic headcanon porportions.

Destroy - What sort of machines do you know in the mass effect universe or in real life, need a gun shooting them in tubes in order to work.
Control - why in a world where it was shown possibile for a person to control machines without turning into liquid was it needed for shepard to electrify himself. in our world all you need is an helmet. it is safe to assume that in order to control a big giant jellyfish you will need something on those lines.

[The Heretic of Time]

erezike you sound like an ITer except for the actual belief that the destroy ending is Shepard breaking free from indoctrination. Aside from that, you're pretty much like any other ITer I've ever seen or spoken to. Take that as you will.

[Erez Kristal]

[quote]IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

[/quote]DEBATE ABOUT WHAT?Your posts don't make any sense.Everything you see after Shepard dies is real because that's what the developers(BioWare) wanted to show that happened.The player is not Shepard,Shepard is Shepard and the player is the player.[/quote] i really tried to give you a chance.  But im giving you up.

[Ruadh]

OK. I read the first two posts of the first page, and the first three pages of the last page.

I already know it's troll bait. It's bollocks. It's a load of flame baiting turd burgling.

Really people?

Really?

[Erez Kristal]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

erezike you sound like an ITer except for the actual belief that the destroy ending is Shepard breaking free from indoctrination. Aside from that, you're pretty much like any other ITer I've ever seen or spoken to. Take that as you will.

This has nothing to do with IT,
it has to do with commonsene-  i never wrote that shepard was indoctirnated.
shooting tubes causes explosions. explosions tend to get you killed
electrifying yourself tend to get you killed.

I have failed to read here, why any one these actions would make any sense.

ginner dave wrote...

OK. I read the first two posts of the first page, and the first three pages of the last page.

I already know it's troll bait. It's bollocks. It's a load of flame baiting turd burgling.

Really people?

Really?

So far the only reason this could be considered as a troll bait, is because peope feel too comfortable when taken by the hand. the only reason i heard as to why destroy or control are better was ending cutscenes.... I mean really BSN. You can do better than that:wizard:

Modifié par erezike, 12 juillet 2013 - 11:32 .

[AlexMBrennan]

shooting tubes causes explosions. explosions tend to get you killed
electrifying yourself tend to get you killed.

Jumping into bottomless chasms tends to get you killed too

[The Night Mammoth]

erezike wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

You're basically saying that you can't trust everything the game shows and tells you, except for the parts that happen to support your argument. Where's the logic in that, exactly?

When did i say that?
I said you cannot trust the cutscenes shown after your character is dead. 
that is it.
you still avoided the main topics in my thread.

I don't care about the main topics in 'your' thread, they're nonsense and there's not a shred of logic anywhere to be found. I just came in and noticed that apparently the fact that the Reapers are dead in Destroy can't be trusted because... because that would undermine your entire argument. Mass Effect, no matter what you think, is not a story told entirely from the perspective of Shepard, that would be ludicrous, since, you know, there are scenes that are shown outwith Shepard's viewpoint, and the player is a real human being detached from the fictional world. The very fact that an epilogue exists which changes depending on the choices you've  tells us that Shepard being dead means the story isn't over. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

erezike wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

 Shepard can't see any of the space battles from his vantage point either. It's not meta-gaming if it's still in the game.

Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.In simple terms, it is the use of out-of-game information or resources to affect one's in-game decisions.


you can use your imagination to justify most of these cutscenes in me1,me2 and me3. but once your character is finally dead. you cannot any longer take the cutscenes as story-facts.

For example- space battle, shepard recieves transmissions from turian ships and can witness the progress of the spacebattle.
Miranda tells shepard of her talks with the illusive man, shepard sees vids of miranda and the illusive man.
Edi catch transmissions of kai leng to the illusive man.

But if you died and werent patrick swayze. you cannot any longer know whats going on.

It's not out of game information if the game shows us what happens. And no, you can't justify all the cutscenes in earlier games. Aside from the fact Miranda never mentions the exact conversation she has with The Illusive Man to Shepard, some of them are explictly free from anyone else. There is no way that EDI could have picked up Kai Leng's transmission. There is no way anyone could know what Saren and Benezia said to eachother after Eden Prime. There is no way Shepard can see Kai Leng from Mars if he's behind the Illusive Man. There is no way Shepard could know about what the Illusive Man did after he turned off the communicator in the end of ME2.

Moreover, even if it were metagaming, that doesn't make it wrong. We can see the Reapers being destroyed. Even if it was outside the Shepard part of the game, we as players know they were destroyed. We can see what happens to Shepard as the auidence as well. Shepard doesn't always die in the ending, we've been shown what happens after Shepard dies before. Both during the Lazarus Project and during a failed suicide mission. After Shepard falls to his death in the Collector Base, the game doesn't end. We still see a conversation between Joker and The Illusive Man: even if it was out of game information(which it is not), it's still accurate, just like the ending of ME3.

[Steelcan]

Seboist wrote...

"Refuse" and "logic" don't go in the same sentence.

Or synthesis

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

Steelcan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

"Refuse" and "logic" don't go in the same sentence.

Or synthesis

BSN too

[Erez Kristal]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

shooting tubes causes explosions. explosions tend to get you killed
electrifying yourself tend to get you killed.

Jumping into bottomless chasms tends to get you killed too

I agree, which also supports the refuse agenda.
The only reason to trust synthesis is because thats what the reaper god wants.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I don't care about the main topics in 'your' thread, they're nonsense and there's not a shred of logic anywhere to be found. I just came in and noticed that apparently the fact that the Reapers are dead in Destroy can't be trusted because... because that would undermine your entire argument. Mass Effect, no matter what you think, is not a story told entirely from the perspective of Shepard, that would be ludicrous, since, you know, there are scenes that are shown outwith Shepard's viewpoint, and the player is a real human being detached from the fictional world. The very fact that an epilogue exists which changes depending on the choices you've  tells us that Shepard being dead means the story isn't over. 

I respect you opinion, i really do.
but building an assumption that you saw a cutscene after making a choice therefor it is the logical thing to do. doesnt hold air.
You need to explain why its logical without turning to the cutscenes.

Modifié par erezike, 12 juillet 2013 - 11:39 .

[VirtualSoldier27]

erezike wrote...
In destroy+Control shepard is straight away dead. while in synthesis the reapers get away what they wanted, everyone become cyborgs, reapers are happy.

so let me get this straight, in your mind, the best way to fight an enemy is to give them what they want ?.  That type of twisted pacifist ideology is not something most people on earth follow.

If you followed the game at all, you have seen the suffering that the Reapers have caused through 3 games, you have heard Vigil, the prothean AI on Thessia and Javik tell you about the suffering they caused in there cycle, and how could any human being with any grasp on reality what so ever,  say you should justify trillions of lives being needlessly slaughtered by a rogue AI, by giving the Reapers exactly what they want.

And you can keep telling yourself whatever it is you tell yourself to justify that irrational logic, but we only see through Shepard's eyes whenever we are playing them, we are not Shepard, we just get to make there decisions for them.  All the cut scenes in ME12&3 are there to set up the choices for us. They actually happen, weather you want to accept it or not accept it ,in order to justify your opinion.

2 conversations that Shepard could not have possibly heard about. the one at the beginning of ME where he wasn't even part of the Normandy crew, and Adm Hackett's victory speech at the end of Destroy ME3,those conversations are there for you, not Shepard!!





 

[The Heretic of Time]

erezike wrote...

shooting tubes causes explosions. explosions tend to get you killed

It also tents to break the machine the tube is part of. The tube is part of the Citadel, part of the heart of the Citadel in fact, which is "the home" of the Catalyst, e.g. by shooting the tube and destroying it you're destroying the Catalyst, then for some reason the Crucible goes SHOOP DA WHOOP!!!! and the Citadel goes IMMA CHARGE MAH LAZ0R!!!! and the reapers go BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM (and EDI too, but meh, f*ck EDI).

[Erez Kristal]

VirtualSoldier27 wrote...

so let me get this straight, in your mind, the best way to fight an enemy is to give them what they want ?.  That type of twisted pacifist ideology is not something most people on earth follow.

What? where did i say that?
The reapers give you three options. all of them are what the reapers want.
The only choice you can make which isnt what the reapers want is refuse. which is why the god-reaper-child gets all angry.

If you decide to give them what they want(choosing one of the three choices) you better give them what they want the most. because it make most sense that, that choice will do what they said it will do.

In your mind they gave you three choices.
Destroy them, control them.
OR work with them
Now tell, since you are master of warfare. what is more likely for enemy to want to do.
Let you destroy him? let you control him? or work with you?

That is the logic behind my thread. now explain to me why this logic is wrong.

[Erez Kristal]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


, then for some reason the Crucible goes SHOOP DA WHOOP!!!! and the Citadel goes IMMA CHARGE MAH LAZ0R!!!! and the reapers go BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM (and EDI too, but meh, f*ck EDI).

Does that means we agree?

[The Heretic of Time]

erezike wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


, then for some reason the Crucible goes SHOOP DA WHOOP!!!! and the Citadel goes IMMA CHARGE MAH LAZ0R!!!! and the reapers go BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM (and EDI too, but meh, f*ck EDI).

Does that means we agree?

I dunno, that depends... do you think that Mac Walters was high on all kinds of drugs when he wrote these endings?