748 réponses à ce sujet

[Erez Kristal]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

erezike wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


, then for some reason the Crucible goes SHOOP DA WHOOP!!!! and the Citadel goes IMMA CHARGE MAH LAZ0R!!!! and the reapers go BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM (and EDI too, but meh, f*ck EDI).

Does that means we agree?

I dunno, that depends... do you think that Mac Walters was high on all kinds of drugs when he wrote these endings?

Writers usually write good stuff when they are high. http://www.neboagenc...and-creativity/

[The Heretic of Time]

erezike wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

erezike wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


, then for some reason the Crucible goes SHOOP DA WHOOP!!!! and the Citadel goes IMMA CHARGE MAH LAZ0R!!!! and the reapers go BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMM (and EDI too, but meh, f*ck EDI).

Does that means we agree?

I dunno, that depends... do you think that Mac Walters was high on all kinds of drugs when he wrote these endings?

Writers usually write good stuff when they are high. http://www.neboagenc...and-creativity/

I wasn't thinking of cannabis (which is good stuff), I was thinking of more severe drugs that does all kinds of damage to the brain.

So... again, I have to ask: do you think Mac Walters was high on all kinds of brain-damaging stuff when he wrote these endings?


(In other words, do you think ME3, the ending specifically, is an illogical incoherend piece of crap?)

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 13 juillet 2013 - 12:08 .

[Erez Kristal]

I dont want the thread to get locked for spam.
I will say that I think the writing throughout me3 is very bad, the ending is no different.

as for logic, i can find logic in anything with the exception of the normandy evac.

[wolfhowwl]

Ha!

Refuse is so stupid and also quite selfish.

[Coyotebay]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Ha!

Refuse is so stupid and also quite selfish.

That was Bioware's FU to players who wanted a new ending.  "Here's your ending, watch everyone DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Erez Kristal]

Seriously, players put too much emphasize on cutscenes and not enough on player made actions.
Bioware real fua was when they railroaded shepard to be in jail on vancouver.

Refuse is only stupid if you meta game, its much more logical to choose refuse over shooting the tube or commiting sucide on the electric poles. i have yet to be debated otherwise.

[AlexMBrennan]

i have yet to be debated otherwise.

Maybe you should have thought of that before becoming a known troll.

[Erez Kristal]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

i have yet to be debated otherwise.

Maybe you should have thought of that before becoming a known troll.

Alex, my friend from the other camp.
Calling others trolls is done when they do not contribue to the discussion.
You choose to call me troll when what you should have done was contribuing to this discussion.

By calling me troll without debunking my claims you have elevated yourself to a troll status.
In Internet slang, a troll[/b] (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1][2] by posting inflammatory,[3] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[4][5] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[6] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[7]

Modifié par erezike, 13 juillet 2013 - 01:14 .

[MegaSovereign]

Well, thats meta-gaming. since your character is dead. you cannot know what will really happen, everything from that point is open to interpretation.

This hurts to read.

[VirtualSoldier27]

erezike wrote...

Seriously, players put too much emphasize on cutscenes and not enough on player made actions.
Bioware real fua was when they railroaded shepard to be in jail on vancouver.

Refuse is only stupid if you meta game, its much more logical to choose refuse over shooting the tube or commiting sucide on the electric poles. i have yet to be debated otherwise.

How is it logical saying that cutscenes, written and developed by bioware, and put in the game,are not vaild ?, do you know something Bioware doesn't about there own game ?

The Cutscenes are set up to demonstrate the consequences of player made actions and choices.

How is refuse more logical when everybody dies,and the ending is a recording of Liara telling the next cycle not to make the same mistakes they did, when "Shooting The Tube"  while it may be lazy writing, ends the Reaper war forever,and no other cycles have to be harvested. How do we know it kills all the reapers, because that's how Bioware wrote it, any other theory that is not written or said by the games developer, is Headcanon!!!

And the reason most don't bother "Debating" with you, because like most trolls, if someone does prove you wrong, you just say "Im done with You"(your words)

Modifié par VirtualSoldier27, 13 juillet 2013 - 01:58 .

[Deathsaurer]

erezike wrote...

In your mind they gave you three choices.
Destroy them, control them.
OR work with them
Now tell, since you are master of warfare. what is more likely for enemy to want to do.
Let you destroy him? let you control him? or work with you?

That is the logic behind my thread. now explain to me why this logic is wrong.

This would be a perfectly valid argument if we were dealing with a rational organic mind instead of an obsessed robot whos mission statement involves the words at all costs. That's about the point where I gave up on this thing using rational logic in any meaningful way. Its reasoning is totally alien. We can sit here all day and rationalize why we wouldn't make such an offer. Why it'd be silly from our perspective but at the end of the day it tells you to your face if you get hostile, your belief is not required. As a result I don't pick an option because I believe they will work, I do it because I've got nothing to lose at this point. If it's lying we're already screwed because this was all or nothing, if it's telling the truth then great this nonsense finally ends one way or another. What ending I pick depends entirely on how I rolepalyed my Shepard.

[Astartes Marine]

That was a very long winded post of your opinion on synth and refuse.  I don't share your opinion, and I'll leave it at that.

[AlanC9]

erezike wrote...

its meta gaming if you take what you see as face-value. because the next time you choose you will think its the truth...

Only if I let the the results influence my decision-making in the next playthrough. If I treat it as a new character making new decisions, it won't be metagaming. 

I never metagame in your sense. What I will do is design a Shepard around the choices rather than the results. Fir example, designing a Shepard who is so innately untrustul of anything the Reapers tell him that he'll turn his brain off in the endgame and Refuse. I'm having a tough time coming up with someone who'll pick Synthesis.

Just think through it, you wll then realise that shooting the tube or getting electrified make no sense.
The fact that the argument you make is.
I saw the cutscenes after i shot the tube therefor it happens. Is infact meta-gaming and wishful thinking.

You've shifted the goalposts again. If it doesn't change my gameplay, it isn't metagaming.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 juillet 2013 - 04:05 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Arcian wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

 
Quite honestly, I killed the Geth already. I'm disgusted with Javik, I'm disgusted with the humans. I'm disgusted with the Krogan. I'm disgusted with the Vorcha. I'm disgusted with the Quarians. I'm disgusted with the Batarians. The Turians aren't impressing me either. I'm not talking about military prowess. These idiots are going to make synthetics again and are going to bring about another situation like the Geth even afterward or worse.

By not including the asari as one of the species you are disgusted with, you just invalidated everything you just said

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Synthesis is the only solution.

And by saying this you just invalidated everything you will ever say in the future.

I am not disgusted with the asari because they represent the values of everything to which humanity should aspire. Take that Illusive Man. Very little poverty; no religious strife; they are not war mongering and prefer non-violent solutions to conflict; e-democracy; beautiful architecture; rich culture, art, and history. They are my favorite race in the series. I would sacrifice humanity for them. Too bad Bioware focused only on strippers and mercs, and a couple of politicians. If that invalidates everything I've ever said so be it. The other races are so violent because they are so short lived... except for the Krogan... perhaps that is an intellectual issue and they don't see a non-violent option.

Refusal is death for the entire galaxy and the entire cycle just happens again. Nothing is gained. Destroy? Those fools will just make something again. You now have Vorcha on Earth. They're descended from flatworms. They don't even reproduce sexually. They just reproduce. They're pests. Vermin, and they're violent and can survive in horrible conditions. How are you going to get rid of them? You're going to have to build synthetics to keep their population under control. The synthetics are going to rebel. It doesn't matter. Some group of idiots are going to build them to kill each other -- we only have to look at our own militaries right now.

Synthesis is the only solution to the problem. It solves the problem by getting rid of the problem. The problem is the existence of organic life and synthetic life. The reapers no longer have anything to reap. The cycles end. And think about this: to choose synthesis after destroying the Geth. Now that is the choice of true cynics.

Synthesis: The Cynical Choice

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Two separate things.

1. OP I'm really hoping this craziness is just the madcap result of the language barrier. Because the other alternatives are just...bad.

2. What's going on sH0tgUn jUliA? You usually aren't this...bleak.

[AlexMBrennan]

Synthesis is the only solution to the problem. It solves the problem by getting rid of the problem

You are begging the question by assuming that the problem actually exists when all you have is the designated villain's word. If that's good enough for you then I have a bridge to sell

There will always be conflict, but what evidence is there to think that synthetics are uniquely capable of wiping out "all life"?

[The Heretic of Time]

erezike wrote...

I will say that I think the writing throughout me3 is very bad, the ending is no different.

Well I'm glad you and I agree at least on that. Which makes me wonder though, why do you even want to waste time taking this piece of garbage serious the way you do? You're taking this stuff way too seriously for something you admittingly think is very bad.

as for logic, i can find logic in anything with the exception of the normandy evac.

Oh really? You can find logic in this nonsensical piece of garbage writing? Damn son, that's impressive.
Or are you just saying that because otherwise the validity of this thread completely falls into the water?

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 13 juillet 2013 - 05:05 .

[Redbelle]

My understanding of the crucible is that once a colour is decided, it's a weapon that affects everyone and everything. No exceptions.

That means if it's synth, everyone and everything is synth'd.

Ditto for Control and Destroy. There are no indications that there are exceptions beyond the speculation that there could have been those who were missed out.

But what's the point of this level of speculation beyond blue sky thinking?

Seival had a thread where he advocated synthesis and rounding up everyone not synthesised, putting them in camps and synthesising them. Leading to the question, why did he think there would be those who were not synthsised in the first place? When the ending never raised the question.

Same question with destroy. Why are there some Reapers who were not destroyed when the entire galaxy was saturated with relay bounced destroy beams?

There is a disconnect with what we saw, the implied statements of those who discussed the crucible as an all encompassing tool that would outright win the war. And the notion that it is possible to escape the effects.

If the discussion pointed at Reapers still out in dark space where no relay connection exists to take the beam I'd understand but even then, why would some Reapers stay behind? For what purpose? They don't think they can lose so a fall back position seems like a wasteful notion when fall abck units could be out harvesting.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Two separate things.

1. OP I'm really hoping this craziness is just the madcap result of the language barrier. Because the other alternatives are just...bad.

2. What's going on sH0tgUn jUliA? You usually aren't this...bleak.

Mercury is in retrograde. My back is killing me. I've noticed this with my moods... and I'm playing ME3 right now. STOP!!!!! Play the Citadel DLC and end the game.

You know I really wish there was one choice in that DLC where they gave us a (metagame) dialogue choice....

Clone: The great Commander Shepard. blah blah blah. I'm going to take what's rightfully mine.

Shepard: (metagame) Really? You really want this job? I'll tell you what. On one condition. I get one of the shuttles and Liara. Okay? Deal?

Clone: Just like that?

Shepard: Just like that.

Liara: You're not serious about this.

Shepard: You have no idea how serious. If she want's this job she can have it. Let's find us a planet off the grid and just chill out.

Liara: But what about the war?

Shepard: Shepard will figure it out, trust me.

[Redbelle]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Two separate things.

1. OP I'm really hoping this craziness is just the madcap result of the language barrier. Because the other alternatives are just...bad.

2. What's going on sH0tgUn jUliA? You usually aren't this...bleak.

Anyone who has seen the price list for a cup of tea at the Ritz hotel would be likewise shaken.

But what do you get if you knock off the R and Z?

It's a trap!

Modifié par Redbelle, 13 juillet 2013 - 07:45 .

[AlexMBrennan]

When the ending never raised the question.

You see the magical blast wave thingy (relatively slowly) spreading through the relay network and then emanating outwards I.e. we are shown that the Crucible effect is not instantaneous which does imply that it might be possible for some ships to escape the blast (e.g. Joker almost manages and reapers are faster than our ships)

[Erez Kristal]

Reorte wrote...

The actual action required for any of the choices (apart from Refuse) is equally suspect though, since all seem like "Please kill yourself." Refuse is hardly better though since whatever you chose can hardly make the situation worse (other than perhaps Synthesis). Faced with that all you can do is pick the least absurd sounding solution, which leaves Destroy or Control as being plausible However it's already been revealed to Shepard that the mechanism for Control is far-fetched, beyond the immediate means of activating it. That said, any Shepard that believes that doing one simple little action will end all Reapers everywhere is also making a rather big leap of faith.

Coyotebay wrote...

With all these (crappy) endings you have to assume two things.  One, that the Crucible actually works, and two, that the Starbrat isn't lying to you about how it works.  Assuming it works takes a ridiculous leap of faith.  Alien technology, the most complicated of all time, you don't even know what it does, and you build it in a matter of months when it should take years or likely decades, and obviously never test it since you still don't know what it does.  Starbrat telling the truth, you just have to accept that he is for the ending to work.

Tonymac wrote...

I think that in Destroy, the Reapers die.

I also think that the endings are a pile of rubbish - the whole deal was poor writing.

Destroy - kill major allies and betray them - just like Bioware betrayed us with those trash endings.

Control - grab the blue bug zapper and die - indoctrinated just like TIM - yet we kill TIM for attempting to control the Reapers. Reapers auto-win.

Synthesis - convert all life in the Galaxy against its will into Borg - this is a Reaper auto-win.

Refusal - basically suicide unless you have your EMS above infinity due to very bad writing.

The whole idea of using Reaper Tech to defeat the Reapers means that we never stood a chance. It is madness and means that far more of the Galaxy is indoctrinated than we ever knew. Reapers are far more advanced than us, and we dealt with both indoctrination and the issues of using Reaper tech in ME 1 and 2.

The whole plot idea of making a giant 'battery' and give it to the Overmind in order to appease the Reapers so that they will surrender to us is so tacky, so lame that its almost beyond words to describe.

Here are the best responds i have seen to this thread, because they answer the question from the logical point of view and they dont put their weight on cutscenes or meta gaming to make an argument. or at least they are aware of it.

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

erezike wrote...

I will say that I think the writing throughout me3 is very bad, the ending is no different.

Well I'm glad you and I agree at least on that. Which makes me wonder though, why do you even want to waste time taking this piece of garbage serious the way you do? You're taking this stuff way too seriously for something you admittingly think is very bad.

as for logic, i can find logic in anything with the exception of the normandy evac.

Oh really? You can find logic in this nonsensical piece of garbage writing? Damn son, that's impressive.
Or are you just saying that because otherwise the validity of this thread completely falls into the water?

I enjoy debating and the world of mass effect. i studied criminology-economics it sort of screw your head so you see grey everywhere. living in a country with a history filled with conflict you also tend to be more involved with politics local and worldwide.

So while i didnt enjoy the story of mass effect 3 and thought it was artistically very bad. (assassins quest bad) i can still see reasoning behind almost all of the events that occur in the story. 
Its just that galaxy going dumb, is a very poor artisic writing.

[Redbelle]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

When the ending never raised the question.

You see the magical blast wave thingy (relatively slowly) spreading through the relay network and then emanating outwards I.e. we are shown that the Crucible effect is not instantaneous which does imply that it might be possible for some ships to escape the blast (e.g. Joker almost manages and reapers are faster than our ships)

Joker had a head start due to prior warning to get out of the sol system. The speed he was traveling at the time meant the wave is fastr than a ship at ftl.

The reapers had no warning and would  never have known what hit them.

Modifié par Redbelle, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:10 .

[KaiserShep]

There's no way anything would outrun the blast. Just look at the scale in proportion to the size of the galaxy as it jumps from relay to relay.