748 réponses à ce sujet

[BaladasDemnevanni]

David7204 wrote...

So again, what does the Catalyst gain by presenting Destroy and Control at all? Isn't Shepard far more likely to accept Synthesis if there's no other option to end the conflict?

Pretty much. Synthesis or you die is a more convincing argument than letting Shepard, potentially fueled by emotion, might choose Destroy just to spite the Reapers.

[KaiserShep]

If the goal was to lie to Shepard to get him to just jump into the beam, then it should simply make that the only option. Someone like me who is dead set on killing reapers is not going to pay any attention to that synthesis nonsense anyway. It would have to trap me into that path by lying in order to make it happen.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 13 juillet 2013 - 11:40 .

[Erez Kristal]

David7204 wrote...

So again, what does the Catalyst gain by presenting Destroy and Control at all? Isn't Shepard far more likely to accept Synthesis if there's no other option to end the conflict?

No.
If shepard was only produced with one choice of jumping down the crucible he would more likely think he was being played.
shepard needs to jump down the beam willingly, in order to do so he needs to feel he can trust the catalyst.
the catalyst by telling shepard he can destroy him or control him. gains shepard trusts.
From looking at the reapers as terrifying villians, shepard begins to look at them as misunderstood poor robots(see the synthesis movements and thread for better clarifying)  http://social.biowar...ndex/12156892/2

The cataylst could have just killed shepard, but it needs shepard for in order to complete the grandplans.
In order to achieve these plans the reapers are willing to do anything even to lie...

Modifié par erezike, 13 juillet 2013 - 11:41 .

[Erez Kristal]

KaiserShep wrote...

If the goal was to lie to Shepard to get him to just jump into the beam, then it should simply make that the only option. Someone like me who is dead set on killing reapers is not going to pay any attention to that synthesis nonsense anyway. It would have to trap me into that path by lying in order to make it happen.

shepard had to jump into the beam willingly in faith that it will stop the war. shepard would have a harder time believe him jumping will trigger the magic destroy reapers button.

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...


Pretty much. Synthesis or you die is a more convincing argument than letting Shepard, potentially fueled by emotion, might choose Destroy just to spite the Reapers.

Shepard needs to believe, in order for this to work

Modifié par erezike, 13 juillet 2013 - 11:43 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

erezike wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

You: Boloacks.

Where is your in game source which tells you he was right?
Why would you think the catalyst wass honest without meta-gaming the ending cutscenes

If we're throwing everything the Catalyst says into question (and I'm not saying that's wrong), what makes Synthesis stand out? His whole Organic-Synthetic conflict could be a lie. Hell, he could have jumbled those options period. Shepard throwing himself off a cliff in Synthesis just gets him killed.

It really comes down to Shepard can make a huge leap of faith on one of those three options, or watch the Crucible be destroyed along with the Fleet which set out to help deliver it.

[Ledgend1221]

erezike wrote...

David7204 wrote...

So again, what does the Catalyst gain by presenting Destroy and Control at all? Isn't Shepard far more likely to accept Synthesis if there's no other option to end the conflict?

[INT 0]If shepard was ......

[David7204]

You're simultaneously trying to argue that the Catalyst is doing all of this nonsense to gain Shepard's trust and that Shepard can't trust the Catalyst because of what he's doing! Since the Catalyst knows Shepard, you are literally arguing two complete opposing things.

"Shepard can't trust the Catalyst because of what he does. The Catalyst has to do this or else Shepard won't trust him."

Do you not see how messed up this is?

Modifié par David7204, 13 juillet 2013 - 11:45 .

[KaiserShep]

I'm starting to suspect that this is just an elaborate troll post, because logic is being smacked around like it owes you money.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

erezike wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

If the goal was to lie to Shepard to get him to just jump into the beam, then it should simply make that the only option. Someone like me who is dead set on killing reapers is not going to pay any attention to that synthesis nonsense anyway. It would have to trap me into that path by lying in order to make it happen.

shepard had to jump into the beam willingly in faith that it will stop the war. shepard would have a harder time believe him jumping will trigger the magic destroy reapers button.

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...


Pretty much. Synthesis or you die is a more convincing argument than letting Shepard, potentially fueled by emotion, might choose Destroy just to spite the Reapers.

Shepard needs to believe, in order for this to work

As opposed to Shepard believing that a "Kill Reaper" exists and choosing that instead? That's not a more convincing argument for choosing Synthesis.

[Erez Kristal]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

erezike wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

You: Boloacks.

Where is your in game source which tells you he was right?
Why would you think the catalyst wass honest without meta-gaming the ending cutscenes

If we're throwing everything the Catalyst says into question (and I'm not saying that's wrong), what makes Synthesis stand out? His whole Organic-Synthetic conflict could be a lie. Hell, he could have jumbled those options period. Shepard throwing himself off a cliff in Synthesis just gets him killed.

It really comes down to Shepard can make a huge leap of faith on one of those three options, or watch the Crucible be destroyed along with the Fleet which set out to help deliver it.

Synthesis could lead to a terrible solution, even worst than control or destroy. it could lead to the enslavement of the galaxy. into everyone becoming like saren, turning into cyborgs.

Its more logical than destroy or control, because if you put yourself in the mercy of the catalyst and the reapers. you might aswell please them as much as possibile.

There is always refuse.. 

[Ledgend1221]

KaiserShep wrote...

I'm starting to suspect that this is just an elaborate troll post, because logic is being smacked around like it owes you money.

I don't get these types of trolls.
A good troll can do all of this with just the OP while appearing genuine.
Trying to keep it up for this long is just pointless.

[Erez Kristal]

David7204 wrote...

You're simultaneously trying to argue that the Catalyst is doing all of this nonsense to gain Shepard's trust and that Shepard can't trust the Catalyst because of what he's doing! Since the Catalyst knows Shepard, you are literally arguing two complete opposing things.

"Shepard can't trust the Catalyst because of what he does. The Catalyst has to do this or else Shepard won't trust him."

Do you not see how messed up this is?

I am happy to know you are not a con-man david.
But in order for a lie to work, the person you are lying to has to believe in it.

[Erez Kristal]

KaiserShep wrote...

I'm starting to suspect that this is just an elaborate troll post, because logic is being smacked around like it owes you money.

To be honest i am quite dissapointed with the lack of good debate here.
Meta-gaming through ending cutscenes in order to deliver your points doesnt support for a good logical argument.
Believe an enemy word for word in a desperate situation doesnt do much to increase the credibility either.

Ledgend1221 wrote...


I don't get these types of trolls.
A good troll can do all of this with just the OP while appearing genuine.
Trying to keep it up for this long is just pointless.

Since you have failed to produce any pieces of information to contribue or to debunk my argument. you my dear bsn fellow. are the true troll.

In Internet slang, a troll[/b] (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1][2] by posting inflammatory,[3] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[4][5] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[6] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[7]

Modifié par erezike, 13 juillet 2013 - 11:51 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

I'm starting to suspect that this is just an elaborate troll post, because logic is being smacked around like it owes you money.

I don't get these types of trolls.
A good troll can do all of this with just the OP while appearing genuine.
Trying to keep it up for this long is just pointless.

Yeah, gonna say this guy's a crazy one.

[AlexMBrennan]

So again, what does the Catalyst gain by presenting Destroy and Control at all? Isn't Shepard far more likely to accept Synthesis if there's no other option to end the conflict?

Yes, it does not really make much sense for Catalyst to present Destroy at all assuming that it could choose to withhold that information. There are massive plotholes all over the ending.

So yeah, I don't know - reapers work in my serious ways after all; for example, Saren was aware that he could stop Sovereign's plan by killing himself but chose the preferable alternative presented by the Reaper instead.

[KiwiQuiche]

David's been set off. Retreat to a safe distance.



Who are you yelling at David? It's getting kinda hard to tell.

[Indy_S]

So your theory is that the Crucible is powered by misplaced faith?

[Erez Kristal]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Yeah, gonna say this guy's a crazy one.

[KaiserShep]

erezike wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

I'm starting to suspect that this is just an elaborate troll post, because logic is being smacked around like it owes you money.

To be honest i am quite dissapointed with the lack of good debate here.
Meta-gaming through ending cutscenes in order to deliver your points doesnt support for a good logical argument.
Believe an enemy word for word in a desperate situation doesnt do much to increase the credibility either.

This would mean something if anyone was actually arguing that the choices are simply validated by the epilogues, but that's not what's happening here.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 13 juillet 2013 - 11:59 .

[Ledgend1221]

erezike wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Yeah, gonna say this guy's a crazy one.

Face it, you've failed as both a troll and a valid poster.

[Erez Kristal]

Indy_S wrote...

So your theory is that the Crucible is powered by misplaced faith?

faith is part of what needed is order for shepard to be absorbed completly.

It similar to stardust. in startdust, if the star is happy then cutting her heart will produce more magical energy to the witches...
It farfetched i know. but in a world where the crucible is possibile you have to account for all possibilies.

[Erez Kristal]

KaiserShep wrote...

erezike wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

I'm starting to suspect that this is just an elaborate troll post, because logic is being smacked around like it owes you money.

To be honest i am quite dissapointed with the lack of good debate here.
Meta-gaming through ending cutscenes in order to deliver your points doesnt support for a good logical argument.
Believe an enemy word for word in a desperate situation doesnt do much to increase the credibility either.

This would be a good point, if anyone was actually arguing that the choices are simply validated by the epilogues, but that's not what's happening here.

 
I am only refering to the ending cutscenes which occur after shepar death. i refer to them since player use them as an example to justify their choice. to prove that control or destroy is the logical choice. instead of using the information they had before shooting the tube or electryfying themselves

[Erez Kristal]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

erezike wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Yeah, gonna say this guy's a crazy one.

Face it, you've failed as both a troll and a valid poster.

Since you refrain from adding anything to this thread. despite the countless opportunities you had. i will assume that you simply have nothing to contribute on the subject of endings and logical choices. and you know what, that is perfectly ok.
I will avoid from feeding you from this post on.

[Ledgend1221]

erezike wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

erezike wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Yeah, gonna say this guy's a crazy one.

Face it, you've failed as both a troll and a valid poster.

Since you refrain from adding anything to this thread. despite the countless opportunities you had. i will assume that you simply have nothing to contribute on the subject of endings and logical choices. and you know what, that is perfectly ok.
I will avoid from feeding you from this post on.

lol.
If I'm not adding anything, then you must be a bloody divisor.

[KaiserShep]

If the Catalyst really wanted to lie to Shepard, there would be only two choices, synthesis or death for all. Logically, there would be absolutely no reason for it to both lie and give you 3 separate choices at all. Why waste the time? Why bother with the risk? Obviously if it was lying, it presumably favors only one outcome, so there's no point in having so many options if it was just yanking your chain. Now, if I was standing there, I'd wonder what the hell was going on, and be suspect of everything it says, the choices it gives, and its motives, but the more I think about it, the less reason I have to think that it's just blowing smoke for some unknown outcome, otherwise it would simplify and leave little room for error. 

Sweet watersliding Jebus.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 13 juillet 2013 - 12:09 .