149 réponses à ce sujet

[HiddenInWar]

I predict this to be multiple page thread

On topic, if they were responsible for misleading marketing, they would have been in the spotlight for that already (legally speaking).

Modifié par HiddenInWar, 13 juillet 2013 - 12:51 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

spirosz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

for real lies see Aliens:Colonial Marines

these are minor complaints about things that hardly affect your experience

Aliens: CM is a whole different ball park.  

War Z is another one of these games who actually did lie, and their PR and handleing of the situation makes bioware look like Valve.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 13 juillet 2013 - 12:52 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

xSey wrote...

I dont really know how you can say the marketting was misleading, depending on where you live there are alot of different advertisements and what not. The main one being 'take Earth back', that is what you accomplish in the game so its not really misleading

You take one promise that turns out to be true to show that marketing was not misleading. That's a silly argument. What about the promises that don't turn out to be true?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 13 juillet 2013 - 12:53 .

[sveners]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Shouldn't fans be accountable for over hyping themselves as well?

I think so. It's where the line is that's the issue. How much of their hopes were of their own making and how much were of BioWare's?

From what I saw post game release, a good 95% of all hyping was done by fans using out of context tweets, wild speculations which turned into rabid demands, and just overall "I want this, I want that" kind of attitude.

Before that, I have no idea. I wasn't really active much and I didn't look at any interviews or pre-game anything outside of the trailers.

Look six posts up. Check out the link.

[AlexMBrennan]

The second school of thought takes a more cynical approach. It says if you believed the PR, you're naïve, and your disappointed expectations are your own fault. The rules that govern "regular folks" don't really apply; we are not talking about interpersonal relations, but the world of business, and businesses mislead to maximize profit. You might as well sue Herbal Essences for not giving you a shower orgasm, or Axe for not causing mobs of hot women to group tackle you.

Except that these ads have disclaimers along the lines of "this is a dramatisation", and there are no such disclaimers in e.g. the storytelling video which clearly implies that scenes not found in the game are an example of an alleged feature of the game.

At the end of the day, your 2nd position boils down to "everyone is doing bad things, therefore the bad things aren't bad". Brilliant.

[Nightwriter]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I'll hold bioware accountable when all the make up commercials, fast food commercials, restaurant commercials, insurance commercials, car commercials, beer commercials, and political ads are held accountable.

It is that low on the totem pole of people who should be held accountable for the ads they make.

Interviews and dev statements are coming into play again.

I'll be honest: I take commercials way, way, way less seriously than the things devs say about the game in interviews and general press statements. Commercials are style-oriented advertisements that are there to catch your attention in ten to thirty seconds of cool footage. They do not convey the level of information that an interview or even a single dev quote does.

Additionally, a given commercial is usually the child of the marketing department. Devs are not just marketing the game, they are giving you insider information on the development process.

[AresKeith]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I'll hold bioware accountable when all the make up commercials, fast food commercials, restaurant commercials, insurance commercials, car commercials, beer commercials, and political ads are held accountable.

It is that low on the totem pole of people who should be held accountable for the ads they make.

>implying ads are the only way to market

[MegaSovereign]

A slap on the wrist won't slow down the issue of marketing exaggeration. I'm pretty sure ME3 will not be the last Bioware game to have this type of marketing.

All we can do is temper our expectations and make educated purchases.

[Nightwriter]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

The second school of thought takes a more cynical approach. It says if you believed the PR, you're naïve, and your disappointed expectations are your own fault. The rules that govern "regular folks" don't really apply; we are not talking about interpersonal relations, but the world of business, and businesses mislead to maximize profit. You might as well sue Herbal Essences for not giving you a shower orgasm, or Axe for not causing mobs of hot women to group tackle you.

Except that these ads have disclaimers along the lines of "this is a dramatisation", and there are no such disclaimers in e.g. the storytelling video which clearly implies that scenes not found in the game are an example of an alleged feature of the game.

At the end of the day, your 2nd position boils down to "everyone is doing bad things, therefore the bad things aren't bad". Brilliant.

Oh ho ho! Do they really? That is interesting. I'll have to look more closely at the screen next time I see one of those commercials.

So do you think BioWare is obligated to put a similar disclaimer on things like the subject of your link?

Modifié par Nightwriter, 13 juillet 2013 - 01:37 .

[Bakgrind]

HiddenInWar wrote...

I predict this to be multiple page thread

On topic, if they were responsible for misleading marketing, they would have been in the spotlight for that already (legally speaking).

More than likely that's how the EC came into being. In lieu of any legalities. They collected data and from that data they gathered that people were complainging more about the clarity and closure at the end of the game. They can't fix bad writing or a bad plot throughout the core of the game. But they could add a few scenes at the end of the game to help explain what was going on in those final moments.So  at the end of the day Bioware looks like a company that goes to great lengths to give the fans what they want. And they did it for free.  It would be really hard  for anyone to consider or bring any kind of civil action against them. 

Modifié par Bakgrind, 13 juillet 2013 - 01:41 .

[Nightwriter]

MegaSovereign wrote...

A slap on the wrist won't slow down the issue of marketing exaggeration. I'm pretty sure ME3 will not be the last Bioware game to have this type of marketing.

All we can do is temper our expectations and make educated purchases.

This thread isn't simply asking what we can do about the complaint. It's asking if the complaint is justified or reasonable. I have heard people argue to the contrary. The variables change, but in general the conversation goes something like:

"This is THEIR game. Shepard is THEIR character. You're not happy, walk away."
"That contradicts a lot of things they said pre-release."
"What, you believed all that stuff about choices and co-creation? You were silly to. PR will be PR."

[AresKeith]

Nightwriter wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

A slap on the wrist won't slow down the issue of marketing exaggeration. I'm pretty sure ME3 will not be the last Bioware game to have this type of marketing.

All we can do is temper our expectations and make educated purchases.

This thread isn't simply asking what we can do about the complaint. It's asking if the complaint is justified or reasonable. I have heard people argue to the contrary. The variables change, but in general the conversation goes something like:

"This is THEIR game. Shepard is THEIR character. You're not happy, walk away."
"That contradicts a lot of things they said pre-release."
"What, you believed all that stuff about choices and co-creation? You were silly to. PR will be PR."

IMO, the complaints are justified or reasonable to an extent

But it would be silly and ignorant to place the whole blame on either Bioware or the fans

[GreyLycanTrope]

AresKeith wrote...
IMO, the complaints are justified or reasonable to an extent

But it would be silly and ignorant to place the whole blame on either Bioware or the fans

Good man.

[hiraeth]

Greylycantrope wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
IMO, the complaints are justified or reasonable to an extent

But it would be silly and ignorant to place the whole blame on either Bioware or the fans

Good man.

Yes, moderation and balanced blame seems to be a reasonable response.

I guess I just wish that the devs hadn't made some specific predictions/allusions/promises...if they'd let everything be a mystery or been up front about what was really in the game, some of the ending backlash might have been tamed. That being said, I can understand why they did it (marketing and revenue-wise). Doesn't mean I like or appreciate it. Will definitely think carefully about future Bioware purchases; that's about all I can do at this point.

Modifié par MassEffectFShep, 13 juillet 2013 - 01:59 .

[ObserverStatus]

spirosz wrote...
Shouldn't fans be accountable for over hyping themselves as well?

I'm $80 poorer than I would have been if I hadn't hyped myself, so yeah, I guess I've been held accountable.

[chemiclord]

There were some things that were said at the time that Bioware had to have known weren't true (The Rachni decision, for example).

There were some things that could easily have been interpreted a way that possibly wasn't intended (The "No ABC ending" deal).

And there were some things that really weren't Bioware's fault at all (the "16 endings" being falsely attributed to them by GI, for example).

Regardless, it does fall to a greater point that marketing as a rule seems to be predicated on stretching the truth as far as possible in order to whip up interest and sales.  For the spirit of fairness, the first group of things are really what should be focused on.

Modifié par chemiclord, 13 juillet 2013 - 02:14 .

[MegaSovereign]

Nightwriter wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

A slap on the wrist won't slow down the issue of marketing exaggeration. I'm pretty sure ME3 will not be the last Bioware game to have this type of marketing.

All we can do is temper our expectations and make educated purchases.

This thread isn't simply asking what we can do about the complaint. It's asking if the complaint is justified or reasonable. I have heard people argue to the contrary. The variables change, but in general the conversation goes something like:

"This is THEIR game. Shepard is THEIR character. You're not happy, walk away."
"That contradicts a lot of things they said pre-release."
"What, you believed all that stuff about choices and co-creation? You were silly to. PR will be PR."

It's not really black and white. To an extent some of the complaints are valid, especially when Bioware specifically says something incredibly misleading (Example: to the effect of "Rachni are very important in the war!"). There are some complaints that I find to be silly, especially when it comes to unrealistic expectations (Example: being able to side with Cerberus in the beginning of the game and essentially having two different plotlines).

Bioware has to follow the law and not commit false advertising, but it is their game and their character. This isn't up for debate. IMO, this forum grumbling about "misleading PR statements" are surface complaints. Ask yourself this, do you think people wouldn't have complained about the Rachni's role in ME3 without that infamous PR statement? 

[ShepnTali]

I wasn't aware of any pre-release statements really. I just expected the same feeling I had just a month prior playing my first Mass Effect game, ME2. It didn't match, unfortunately.

[ShepnTali]

MegaSovereign wrote...

A slap on the wrist won't slow down the issue of marketing exaggeration. I'm pretty sure ME3 will not be the last Bioware game to have this type of marketing.

All we can do is temper our expectations and make educated purchases.

I tempered my expectations after the fact, and realized I could enjoy ME3 regardless, after letting the EC soak in. I expect Citadel to help further when I get around to it.

[chemiclord]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

1.) People do not hold Mickey D's accountable for their Big Macs looking like crap.

2.) Most of the people here would've bought Mass Effect 3 regardless of the marketing.

While this IS true, that doesn't mean that's it's okay to say things about the product people are going to buy that you would HAVE to know isn't true.  There IS a legitimate complaint here, though it's often expanded to include "promises" that require some very creative interpretation or are outright fabrication.

[dreamgazer]

Here's the full quote from EW.com about the rachni: 

I saved the Rachni in the first game, and there was a little tease about them in Mass Effect 2. How big of a repercussion do choices like that have in this game? Will get to play a mission that someone who killed the Rachni wouldn’t get?

The thing I will say about Mass Effect 3 is that the choices you’ve made previously, and the differences that those choices represent, are much bigger than they’ve been in the past. There are certain missions that are simply not available at all because of something you’ve done in the past. Those are usually on a smaller scale. Is Conrad Verner alive or dead? [The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 13 juillet 2013 - 02:39 .

[Iakus]

Nightwriter wrote...
This thread isn't simply asking what we can do about the complaint. It's asking if the complaint is justified or reasonable. I have heard people argue to the contrary. The variables change, but in general the conversation goes something like:

"This is THEIR game. Shepard is THEIR character. You're not happy, walk away."
"That contradicts a lot of things they said pre-release."
"What, you believed all that stuff about choices and co-creation? You were silly to. PR will be PR."

To a great extent it is reasonable.  While pepole did get themselves hyped up over the game, Biwoare gleefully told said fans pretty much anything and everything they wanted to hear