149 réponses à ce sujet

[chemiclord]

Well, either Casey Hudson has some REALLY strange ideas as to what "huge consequences" mean, or he said something he at least SHOULD have known wasn't true. The game had gone gold by the point that statement was uttered... if I recall correctly.

[ShepnTali]

"huge consequences"

This may be true if you played no multiplayer with the initial release. How tight were the war asset numbers to getting a 'best' ending?

[Nightwriter]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

A slap on the wrist won't slow down the issue of marketing exaggeration. I'm pretty sure ME3 will not be the last Bioware game to have this type of marketing.

All we can do is temper our expectations and make educated purchases.

This thread isn't simply asking what we can do about the complaint. It's asking if the complaint is justified or reasonable. I have heard people argue to the contrary. The variables change, but in general the conversation goes something like:

"This is THEIR game. Shepard is THEIR character. You're not happy, walk away."
"That contradicts a lot of things they said pre-release."
"What, you believed all that stuff about choices and co-creation? You were silly to. PR will be PR."

It's not really black and white. To an extent some of the complaints are valid, especially when Bioware specifically says something incredibly misleading (Example: to the effect of "Rachni are very important in the war!"). There are some complaints that I find to be silly, especially when it comes to unrealistic expectations (Example: being able to side with Cerberus in the beginning of the game and essentially having two different plotlines).

Bioware has to follow the law and not commit false advertising, but it is their game and their character. This isn't up for debate. IMO, this forum grumbling about "misleading PR statements" are surface complaints. Ask yourself this, do you think people wouldn't have complained about the Rachni's role in ME3 without that infamous PR statement? 

Very few things are black and white.

Asking the wrong person. I can't seem to remember hearing about this promise about the rachni's importance before now, and anyhow I haven't been exposed to much criticism about them not being significant enough in the game. The gripe I seem to hear most often is that ME3 renders the rachni choice in ME1 meaningless.

Gun to my head, I'd say that if I flick you in the nose you're going to be irritated no matter what, but if I promise not to flick you in the nose right before I do it, you'll feel both irritated and tricked.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Nightwriter wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I'll hold bioware accountable when all the make up commercials, fast food commercials, restaurant commercials, insurance commercials, car commercials, beer commercials, and political ads are held accountable.

It is that low on the totem pole of people who should be held accountable for the ads they make.

Interviews and dev statements are coming into play again.

I'll be honest: I take commercials way, way, way less seriously than the things devs say about the game in interviews and general press statements. Commercials are style-oriented advertisements that are there to catch your attention in ten to thirty seconds of cool footage. They do not convey the level of information that an interview or even a single dev quote does.

Additionally, a given commercial is usually the child of the marketing department. Devs are not just marketing the game, they are giving you insider information on the development process.

Not only that, they are human beings. And it looks like they wanted to be treated that way. If not then you may get banned from this forum. If they should be treated with respect then we should be treated the same way.

[Armass81]

Someone already tried to sue them for that, it didnt work out.

If you have the money to spare, you can go for it. No guarantees tough.

Modifié par Armass81, 13 juillet 2013 - 03:12 .

[Armass81]

chemiclord wrote...

Well, either Casey Hudson has some REALLY strange ideas as to what "huge consequences" mean, or he said something he at least SHOULD have known wasn't true. The game had gone gold by the point that statement was uttered... if I recall correctly.

Hey, this guy showed green light to the aptly named book Mass Effect: Deception... can you truly believe anything he says after that without some doubts in your mind? I cant.

Modifié par Armass81, 13 juillet 2013 - 03:13 .

[tamperous]

They will be held accountable.

EB or BB or Amazon will never see my name in a database with a pre-order for anything from this label. I'll wait until real people say its good and it hits the 29.99 bin which for this game was exactly 3 weeks after release. If the reviews are so-so, I'll just watch the good bits on Youtube, which is how I enjoyed all the DLC for this game.

[AlanC9]

ShepnTali wrote...

"huge consequences"

This may be true if you played no multiplayer with the initial release. How tight were the war asset numbers to getting a 'best' ending?

The breath clip was flatly impossible. Synthesis was pretty doable.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 juillet 2013 - 03:44 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

J. Reezy wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Shouldn't fans be accountable for over hyping themselves as well?

I think so. It's where the line is that's the issue. How much of their hopes were of their own making and how much were of BioWare's?

From what I saw post game release, a good 95% of all hyping was done by fans using out of context tweets, wild speculations which turned into rabid demands, and just overall "I want this, I want that" kind of attitude.

Before that, I have no idea. I wasn't really active much and I didn't look at any interviews or pre-game anything outside of the trailers.

I don't think 95% of these quotes and links were due to wild speculation

Are any of those quotes pertaining to the extended cut, leviathan, omega, or citadel dlc's?

[chemiclord]

Armass81 wrote...

Someone already tried to sue them for that, it didnt work out.

If you have the money to spare, you can go for it. No guarantees tough.

Part of the problem was that the complaint to the FTC wasn't focused on pre-release comments.  It was focused on dissatisfaction about the ending, which the FTC could not find suitable evidence that Bioware maliciously misled customers about.

[Zekka]

Bio should be responsible for some of the blame and the fans should be responsible for also hyping the game. Bioware obviously lied and made some bad statements but I can tell you that I took some of their statements at face value.

It is shocking to me that Casey made some of these statements because he has been with Bioware for a very long time and he is credited as the head of the mass effect franchise, you would think he knew more about his game.

Modifié par leslie2233, 13 juillet 2013 - 04:23 .

[Armass81]

leslie2233 wrote...

Bio should be responsible for some of the blame and the fans should be reeponsible for also hyping the game. Bioware obviously lied and made some bad statements but I can tell you that I took some of their statements at face value.

It is shocking to me that Casey made some of these statements because he has been with Bioware for a very long time and he is credited as the head of the mass effect franchise, you would think he knew more about his game.

Yes you would think that...

He even read Deception as claimed by his twitter comments and showed green light to it... Anyone who knows ME universe and takes it at least slightly seriously couldnt have let that travesty slip by, so either that was another lie cause he just didnt have the time to read it or just didnt care, or he just doesnt know his own universes lore, at all.

I mean a Tantalus drive on batarian ships? Volus with a mask that doesnt cover his whole face? Gillian aging several years in one year.... "facepalm*...

Modifié par Armass81, 13 juillet 2013 - 04:32 .

[Zekka]

^
I haven't read deception but I have heard that it is as bad or worse than mass effect 3


Casey probably thought the mass effect team could do no wrong because they made mass effect 2.

I kinda blame myself for liking the series too much , after playing ME3 I took a hard look at the three games and I hyped them too much .

Modifié par leslie2233, 13 juillet 2013 - 04:38 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

ShepnTali wrote...

"huge consequences"

This may be true if you played no multiplayer with the initial release. How tight were the war asset numbers to getting a 'best' ending?

And this is how they'd weasel out of it.

[dreamgazer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

"huge consequences"

This may be true if you played no multiplayer with the initial release. How tight were the war asset numbers to getting a 'best' ending?

And this is how they'd weasel out of it.

Pretty much.  Goes for nearly every pre-release quote, too: they can all be interpreted away as being "accurate", even the A,B,C endings and the consequences storytelling vid. 

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

"huge consequences"

This may be true if you played no multiplayer with the initial release. How tight were the war asset numbers to getting a 'best' ending?

And this is how they'd weasel out of it.

Pretty much.  Goes for nearly every pre-release quote, too: they can all be interpreted away as being "accurate", even the A,B,C endings and the consequences storytelling vid. 

And even if it's technically accurate, it's still deliberately misleading.

Does your dog bite?

[Krunjar]

Yeah sure cos mass effect 3 would have been awesome if Bioware had been accountable to the legions of screaming fan boys and the quarian panty sniffers.

No Dev's should not be accountable most people are dumb. If people as a whole could influence art they would turn it into snuff movies and pornography.

At least this way some of the stuff is good.

[Sanunes]

BSN Poster 1: "Why does BioWare ignore us on BSN?"

BSN Poster 2: "Lets hope there are legal ramifications for comments made before the game was finalized"

The only way they are going to be held responsible is the people that aren't going to buy the game, for I think any type of action against EA/BioWare will be explained off as "It was accurate at the time and the product wasn't finished" or "those were personal opinions and not reflective of EA or BioWare".

There are requirements that are needed for actions and one of them is the intent to mislead and not have any proof that what was delivered was not close to what they said. Looking at the A, B, C ending comments, it could be proven (at least I think so) that because they designed it with minor (and almost unnoticeable variations) it would be technically true, even if the consumer disagrees with the statement, it was true to the person making those comments. At least that is my interpretation of what little I know.

At the end of the day I am pretty sure if there is ever any kind of action that has any progress towards being successful for actions like this developers of any kind are going to avoid talking about anything in public for the fear of the consequences if anything changes.

Modifié par Sanunes, 13 juillet 2013 - 05:24 .

[AresKeith]

Krunjar wrote...

Yeah sure cos mass effect 3 would have been awesome if Bioware had been accountable to the legions of screaming fan boys and the quarian panty sniffers.

No Dev's should not be accountable most people are dumb. If people as a whole could influence art they would turn it into snuff movies and pornography.

At least this way some of the stuff is good.

I take it you didn't read the OP

[bloodmoon0011]

ShepnTali wrote...

"huge consequences"

This may be true if you played no multiplayer with the initial release. How tight were the war asset numbers to getting a 'best' ending?

A "best" Mass Effect 3 ending?  Jesus, that's like choosing the "best" raping. O.o  lol

I think the truest way to "hold them accountable" for any of this crap is to refuse to buy more until they fix it, but thanks to the lame ducks behind the Take Back Mass Effect movement, that ****'s not gonna happen.  EC came out and everyone was all "HOORAY WE DID ET DEY FIXED ET YUSSSSSSSS".  Horsecrap, they released a PATCH.  That was all EC was was a way to fill in the horrible glitches in the endings.  They had to PATCH the STORY.  That's insane.  That is pants-on-head, yelling at goldfish, chop-your-dick-off bananas.

[dreamgazer]

Well, that was ... detailed.

[Armass81]

leslie2233 wrote...

^
I haven't read deception but I have heard that it is as bad or worse than mass effect 3


Casey probably thought the mass effect team could do no wrong because they made mass effect 2.

I kinda blame myself for liking the series too much , after playing ME3 I took a hard look at the three games and I hyped them too much .

To be honest, that should have been the first sign tha they can do wrong, considering how bad ME2 is from a "mid point of a trilogy" perspective.

Modifié par Armass81, 13 juillet 2013 - 06:50 .

[Remix-General Aetius]

wolfhowwl wrote...

I think this is the thread you were thinking of.

http://social.biowar...dex/10204263/24

Holy sheet! I wasn't quite into the ME series when ME3 was near release, so I'm not an anti-ending guy like many others are. I also agreed that fans overhyping themselves is also a distinct possibility, but when they hear the devs saying all that stuff, it's impossible not to overhype yourself.

Based on what they say, and comparing it to the final game, it's like there's a standalone expansion pack missing from somewhere in the mix. Too little too late though, there's no way they'd add all that in the game now.

PS: lol at Priestly's pathetic attempt at last words. "These are not lies". Lol, really? Only someone on EA's/Bioware's payroll would dare say that, after all the evidence is shoved in your face.

Modifié par TheGarden2010, 13 juillet 2013 - 06:56 .

[bloodmoon0011]

scyphozoa wrote...

Legally, ME3 was fine. There are no legal grounds for misleading marketing. Within the game industry, you as a gamer can decide if you want to continue supporting a developer that you feel overpromised or mislead.

But lets be real, if you could sue game devs for overpromising or misleading, Peter Molyneux would be serving a life sentence.

Halfway through that last sentence, before I finished reading, I actually said his name outloud. lmfao