251 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Aveline's comment sells it. I believe she calls you an ass. XD

I believe she did.  Oh well, who likes Aveline any ways?

[Steelcan]

themikefest wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

themikefest wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I'm still unsure if I wanna get for PS3

I bought the Ultimate Edition for my PS3 about a year ago for only 19.99.

any bugs, like on Xbox?

I haven't experienced any bugs. In fact with everyone discussing DA:O, I might do a complete run with all dlc again.

Thats like a solid 45 hours of time investment over one internet conversation.....

Wish I had that kind of time

[Steelcan]

StreetMagic wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Aveline's comment sells it. I believe she calls you an ass. XD

I believe she did.  Oh well, who likes Aveline any ways?

Uh, I do.

  Do not care for her.  So uptight and righteous

[Nole]

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Aveline's comment sells it. I believe she calls you an ass. XD

I believe she did.  Oh well, who likes Aveline any ways?

She's the only companion that is not completely insane, I kind of like that, lol.

[Steelcan]

StreetMagic wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Aveline's comment sells it. I believe she calls you an ass. XD

I believe she did.  Oh well, who likes Aveline any ways?

Uh, I do.

  Do not care for her.  So uptight and righteous

I don't think so. In D&D terms, I guess, she's kind of Lawful Good, but more Lawful Neutral. More importantly, her and Varric are the least drama prone.

true, but I just find her boring

[Steelcan]

Anders, Isabela, and Varric for me

[AresKeith]

Varric, Isabela, Bethany, and Aveline for me

Sebastian was meh

[Steelcan]

AresKeith wrote...

Varric, Isabela, Bethany, and Aveline for me

Sebastian was meh

I played a mage.... No Bethany:pinched:

[Ryzaki]

Varric, Fenris and Carver for me. *dodges tomatoes*

[AresKeith]

Steelcan wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Varric, Isabela, Bethany, and Aveline for me

Sebastian was meh

I played a mage.... No Bethany:pinched:

And you get stuck with Carver lol 

I heard there was cut content that was meant only for Mage Hawke

[Nole]

I think Carver is way more interesting than Bethany.

[Steelcan]

AresKeith wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Varric, Isabela, Bethany, and Aveline for me

Sebastian was meh

I played a mage.... No Bethany:pinched:

And you get stuck with Carver lol 

I heard there was cut content that was meant only for Mage Hawke

.  ehh, mage was pretty cool. 

[Ryzaki]

Edit: holy crap Steam went even lower on UE. It's 9 bucks now.

Carver >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bethany.

Beth's as interesting as watching paint dry. God. SO BORING.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 juillet 2013 - 01:30 .

[Anubis722]

Varric,Isabella,Merrill we were know as team ****, Aveline was meh,Fenris,Carver.and Anders(sad thing i like Anders in DA Awakening)can died,Sebastian was meh,Bethany was okay and Tallis ugh

ME1>ME2>ME3

Ashley: Okay>Disliked>Hate
Liara: Meh>Disliked>Disliked
Garrus>Meh>Liked>Liked
Tali>Love>Love>Love
Wrex>Liked>Liked>Liked
Miranda>Meh>Meh
Jacob>Boring>Boring
Jack>Liked>Okay
Mordin>Liked>Liked
Samara>Liked>Liked
Grunt>Liked>Liked
Thane>Liked>Liked
Legion>Liked>Hate
Zaeed>Liked>Liked
Kasumi>Liked>Indifferent(Hate what ME3 did to her, but thats why i have Razor's Edge)
James>Meh
EDI>Okay>Meh
Kaidan>Boring>Boring>Okay

Modifié par AnubisEgyptainLordofDeath, 17 juillet 2013 - 01:43 .

[Steelcan]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I hardly ever used either sibling, although I found them both more likable than Sebastian, Anders, or Fenris.

Fenris almost went back to Tevinter

[devSin]

Ryzaki wrote...

Varric, Fenris and Carver for me. *dodges tomatoes*

I put Aveline up there too, but these three also ended up being my favorite. Carver is the only sibling relationship I've seen portrayed in a game that really clicked for me. I hate that he's absent for most of it, but Luke still tore it up.

Isabela comes in pretty close behind. I like Merrill, but there are many times where I just can't stand her.

I wasn't a fan of how Jennifer wrote her companions. I always feel like a fly on the wall when all her character development is going on, and not as an actual participant. That leaves Anders, Bethany, and Sebastian as the weakest, though I don't actively dislike any of them (I actually like Sebastian quite a bit).

Modifié par devSin, 17 juillet 2013 - 01:38 .

[Ymladdych]

HYR 2.0 wrote...
I'm giving you a chance to prove you're right. If you can't do it, it's your problem, not mine.

Except that you can't "prove" rightness or wrongness from a speculative question regarding a fictitious work. Trading "what ifs" based on our belief systems only proves that we can rationalize how those belief systems fit into the narrative, and a "good" fit isn't necessarily the "only" fit, much less the "right" fit.

(1) "Willpower" would imply TIM is thinks he is indoctrinated or being indoctrinated and actively trying to resist it, which we can prove is not the case as he denies the Reapers are influencing him at all multiple times in ME3.

Not necessarily. We describe willful people as "persevering," "unwaivering," or "stubborn." Why? What does it mean to be "stubborn?" Would you agree that one element of a "stubborn" person is a clearly defined belief system that's resistant to persuasion and coercion? "Stubborn" people have an innate resistance to altering their mindset, even if they're not conscious of their resistance. Of course, once a "stubborn" person recognizes coercion, then yeah, they'll put up a fight.

Which means, if the Reapers are smart (and they are), they would take great care to ensure that a strong, willful personality like TIM remained oblivious to their influence for as long as possible. They would restrict their "control"
to nudges - a devil on the shoulder whispering so softly in his ear that he wouldn't differentiate the input from his own thoughts.

Also,denial is a very real thing - everyone, including "stubborn" people, lie to themselves all the time, even when they behave in ways that imply a subconscious recognition of the truth. But just like we see with Saren and TIM, when reality encroaches too much, then denial gives way to cognitive dissonance - an internal conflict that can resolve itself a number of different ways ways: rationalization (I meant to do that - it wasn't Reaper influence!); justification (I'll implant more Reaper tech because this is the only way we can win!); or belief disconfirmation (Dang, Shepard's right - I'm indoctrinated! /suicide)

(2) It didn't "almost" backfire on them, it *did* backfire (if true). If the Reapers relaxed control enough to let TIM steal Shepard's body from them, to let him help Shepard wipe out the Collectors and stop them from creating the human Reaper, that's failure of epic proportions.

Wouldn't you say it was a failure of epic proportions for them to lose control of Saren and let him /suicide? Saren's death forced Sovereign to assume direct control of the avatar, making itself vulnerable to attacks from
the fleet. (Remember, its shields only dropped when Shepard sufficiently damaged the avatar.)

As EDI says, the Reapers are not infallible, and they're not above miscalculation. (Failed Synthesis in the past; the survival of The Crucible plans; the fact that Shepard and Anderson's run to the beam succeeds; etc.)

What can Shepard say when EDI expresses concern about their plan? (paraphrasing): "It'll work because they don't think they can lose." An assertion that's supported repeatedly by various Reaper smacktalk sessions throughout the trilogy.

Well that wasn't part of your claim, initially.

And I'm pretty sure the scientists would have been restored to normal had they gotten off the derelict Reaper by that point.

No, I only my cited evidence. You misinterpreted the significance of that evidence. You also asserted that "foreign knowledge" (gained from an external source - not obtained from personal experience) was *not* an established side-effect of indoctrination - when it clearly is. Shared memories; Asari language; ancient Turian glyphs; it's all the same - information collected from indoctrination victims and accessed by anyone with a mental connection to the Reapers.

As for being "pretty sure" about the scientists being restored - I won't dispute your right to believe it, because I don't see where the Indoctrination Codex states that the effects are permanent. However, conversations with NPC's (including indoctrination victims of varying severity) indicate that the effects are in fact permanent, so while I can't dispute your belief, I see no reason to accept it as fact.

Especially when Shiala proves that victims don't have to be "totally gone" vegetables to suffer from permanent indoctrination effects. She's not a Reaper thrall, right? She's high-functioning. She doesn't express any interest in going back to the Reapers, but she flat out writes in her email, "I'm sure I'm still indoctrinated. I remember Sovereign's voice in my mind [...] But my connection the people of Zhu's Hope is stronger."

Mass Effect: Retribution also narrates from the perspective from TIM just as it does Grayson here. However, where the novel clearly depicts the details of Grayson's indoctrination, TIM's perspective bears 0 similarity. No such details of outside influence exist within TIM's POV at all in this book.

1. TIM's perspective having 0 similiarity to Grayson's doesn't mean a whole lot if TIM's connection to the Reapers was still muted/tenuous during the events of the novel. Other than whatever happened to his eyes from the artifact, TIM didn't have Reaper tech implanted yet. But poor Grayson had nanites directly tubed into his body and was repeatedly dosed on Red Sand to break his will.

2. Maybe the Reapers could've influenced TIM, but they didn't see a need to tap him yet. (A sleeper agent, as per the indoctrination Codex.)

3. The book is written in third person limited, so everything is subject to a POV's limited perspective and biases. Consequently, if the Reapers *were* whispering in TIM's ear without his knowledge, then the narrative would reflect his ignorance. In other words, the reader can only question what TIM notices himself. Grayson, on the other hand, was fully aware of the Reaper presence in his mind, and they exerted direct control of his body at times. Consequently, his narrative reflects his battle for control, and at times, it gives the Reapers' POV.

The interesting part about Grayson's POV is how he can be completely oblivious to the Reapers' manipulations even though he's fully aware of his own indoctrination. Basically, one example flows like this:

Grayson: I need to kill myself! I must do the right thing!
Reapers: Crap! He's /suiciding like Saren! Stop him!
*manipulates Grayson's limbic system*
Grayson: Wait, what am I doing? There's hope! Screw the Reapers! They won't make me take the coward's way out!
*tosses the knife aside*

I'm not convinced the eyes mean anything. Shepard has the same thing (it only shows as a renegade, however).

We haven't seen anything like the Arca Monolith device anywhere else. It is an anomaly, even among other examples of Reaper technology. In that, TIM's eyes may very well be an anamalous result of an anomalous device.

But even Shepard's renegade appearance means something. Chakwas said that it's an aggression-induced reaction to his cybernetic implants. So at the very least, you know that the artifact affected TIM's body enough to cause a reaction with his cybernetic eyes. (The comic doesn't actually say if he had cybernetic eyes to begin with, so that's an unknown.)

Again, Object Rho imbued Shepard and Kenson & Co. with the knowledge that the Reapers were arriving via Alpha Relay. Shepard was connected to the Reapers in that moment (and over the next two days). However, he does not leave The Project indoctrinated. It was a very brief period of time. Kenson et. el. stayed there, though, and
they succumbed.

1. Paragon Shepard's eyes don't permanently turn renegade red after the blast, so that right there implies a difference between Shepard's encounter with Project Rho and TIM's experience with the artifact. (TIM shows evidence of being physically affected, Shepard does not.) TIM artifact could Reaperfy - Object Rho only seemed to indoctrinate.

2. Shepard isn't TIM. Shepard's 30%-40% cyborg already, and if Reaper indoctrination affects organics but not synthetics, maybe his cybernetics imparted a resistance.

3. *cringes* For the record, I'm not an IT'er, but I have to be honest *cringes again*...we don't really know if Shepard came away from Rho completely unaffected. I'm not saying that he was indoctrinated, or that picking X ending means Y, but the Starkid's chosen form does imply that The Catalyst had access to his thoughts. (That's all I'm going to say on this. I don't want my TIM opinion to seem like a case for IT, because it's not.)

There is nothing extreme or misguided about TIM's conclusion at the end of the comic. He's simply rejecting Clark's 3rd Law in favor of studying and understanding their technology.

As I wrote before, I don't have a problem with researching Reaper tech under the right conditions. But the thing is, his opening line in that speech is, "Desolas was right" - he doesn't qualify the statement, and lo and behold, the moment he gets the opportunity, he starts building a Reaper army like Desolas. That's absolutely misguided, given his previous experience with the artifact. And yes, I think that speech shows that it was his intention from day 1.

IT levels of analysis -- not everything is foreshadowing.

It may not foreshadow indoctrination specifically, but it's absolutely meant to be a red flag about TIM's motivations and his trustworthiness. You don't need "IT levels of analysis" to see that - just a basic grasp of cinematic technique, narrative context (it occurs after he sends Shepard into a dangerous trap), and body language.

I mean, Casey Hudson flat-out states in one of the ME books (I don't remember which one - it's packed away) that they give players a lot of nonverbal information via things like physical symbolism, body language, facial expressions, etc. (I think the chapter's called, "The Eyes Have It," and funny enough, it features TIM with his cybernetic eyes.)

And if you still want to claim "IT levels of analysis", here's an interview with Derek Watts (art director). The whole thing's interesting if you like dev diaries, but if you want to cut to the chase, at 5:35 he talks about shortening Tali's hood as a visual representation of her maturity in ME3. (The rationale being that women cut their hair as they get older.) See? Symbolism.
www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/04/22/mass-effect-3-creating-garrus.aspx

Modifié par Ymladdych, 17 juillet 2013 - 02:41 .

[Ryzaki]

devSin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Varric, Fenris and Carver for me. *dodges tomatoes*

I put Aveline up there too, but these three also ended up being my favorite. Carver is the only sibling relationship I've seen portrayed in a game that really clicked for me. I hate that he's absent for most of it, but Luke still tore it up.

Isabela comes in pretty close behind. I like Merrill, but there are many times where I just can't stand her.

I wasn't a fan of how Jennifer wrote her companions. I always feel like a fly on the wall when all her character development is going on, and not as an actual participant. That leaves Anders, Bethany, and Sebastian as the weakest, though I don't actively dislike any of them (I actually like Sebastian quite a bit).

Yeah Carver reminded me of my own annoying sister.

I'm pretty iffy on Isabela mostly because that wench ditches me. And I tend to ignore her.

Yeah a fly on the wall explains it. It's pretty =/ inducing.

[KotorEffect3]

I never liked Miranda in the ME 2 days, my opinion of her would vary from mild distrust at best to scorn and resentment. I saw a ruthless ice queen that would stop and nothing to reach her goal no matter who got screwed over in the process. Unfortunately those are traits that some in the bsn actualy admire (this place makes me shake my head sometimes).

However post SM and into ME 3 my opinon of her has softened as she has opened her eyes and she saw what cerberus and TIM were really all about. And she earned big plus points with me when she finally admitted it was wrong to want to plant a control chip in Shepard's head when cerberus was rebuilding him. She finally saw how using people as tools was wrong. So I actualy kind of like her in ME 3.

[conjmk]

Well, at first I thought Jacob was annoying and boring but when... Oh, wait, I still think that.