251 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The problem is that all stories should not be restricted to people doing things out of being professional.Stories should have the ability to be far richer than that.

And they can, if you get along well through your choices more personal stuff is unlocked.  But the inverse should also hold true.

No. That's not good enough. That just means it's all restricted to optional content, and thus by necessitity somewhat irrelevent to the main plotline.

Stories should have the ability to have events and characters in the main plotline motivated by love, friendship, honor, compassion, and trust.

[DeinonSlayer]

Ryzaki wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Not good enough. Duty for the job alone is not going to be near enough to carry every plot point in every story. Characters should be able to do to things out of love, friendship, honor, compassion and trust. Your demands make that impossible. Any such situation would be derided with "My character doesn't feel love/friendship/honor/compassion/trust for so-and-so!"

LMFAO.

Oh noes. We can't have someone OPTIONALLY doing something out of love and friendship (which also benefits them).

For example the tone of the NON bugged version of Morrigan's ritual if you and her are friends/lovers vs the version if you're hostile.

No!

Or hardened Alistair marrying a warden he hates for a poltical marriage (while non hardened Alistair pretty much goes No no noooooooo).

Can't be having choices like that. NEVER. Everyone must be best friends because you NEVER help other people for your own benefit. Nope. That crap don't happen. Differences based on how characters feel about your character? Get out with that nonsense serah!

Wait, Morrigan's ritual is bugged?

My female City Elf was at Friendly status with her. Was dialogue at that status to be different somehow? Granted, I don't have a basis for comparison... only got one Warden to that point thus far...

Right. Topic.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

No. That's stupid. Being 'optional' is used as a defense to justify basically anything in a video game, and it's ridiculous.

Some content should not be optional. Some content can't be optional. Characters should be able to have motivations within the main non-optional storyline that relay on trust and compassion and friendship and love.

Despite your ridiculous strawman, nobody is claiming that people "NEVER help other people" for their own benefit. That's utterly stupid. It is, however, claiming that stories should have the option of SOMETIMES have people do things because of the qualities I listed.

No one is saying all content has to be optional, you are making that up.  We are only saying that it should be up to the players who their PC pals around with in a choice based RPG.  We have shown examples of it has been done in the past.

[DeinonSlayer]

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The problem is that all stories should not be restricted to people doing things out of being professional.Stories should have the ability to be far richer than that.

And they can, if you get along well through your choices more personal stuff is unlocked.  But the inverse should also hold true.

No. That's not good enough. That just means it's all restricted to optional content, and thus by necessitity somewhat irrelevent to the main plotline.

Stories should have the ability to have events and characters in the main plotline motivated by love, friendship, honor, compassion, and trust.

The availability of Morrigan's ritual (the 3rd ending, basically) is contingent on the question, "do you trust me?"

Depending on your actions, the answer may very well be "no."

[Ryzaki]

StreetMagic wrote...
If you haven't done it, try Loghain first. He's awesome.

I spared Loghain once. Did his dialogue didn't feel it was worth it.

He's so not worth drunk Alistair. Even on my douchecanoe male mage who's power hungry. (Who would also be better off with a nonhardened king Alistair as his puppet on the throne).

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Sounds like your city elf and my city elf ought to go out and get drinks. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

I hear Loghain is awesome, though. Gotta play a Warden with a perspective consistent with keeping him alive sometime.

yeah she's very mama bearish. Decapitation on Vaughn was my heck yeah moment.

I think if I could bother playing a dwarf or a DE I might manage it. He doesn't screw with those three origins too much other than the usual sending assassins. But I have a height complex and when I play dwarf all I can think is "WHY SO SHORT." XD

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

The problem is that all stories should not be restricted to people doing things out of being professional.Stories should have the ability to be far richer than that.

And they can, if you get along well through your choices more personal stuff is unlocked.  But the inverse should also hold true.

No. That's not good enough. That just means it's all restricted to optional content, and thus by necessitity somewhat irrelevent to the main plotline.

Stories should have the ability to have events and characters in the main plotline motivated by love, friendship, honor, compassion, and trust.

Let me spell it out plainly,

A-N-D    T-H-E    I-N-V-E-R-S-E   S-H-O-U-L-D   A-L-S-O   H-O-L-D    T-R-U-E


otherwise roleplaying is restricted severely, and in an RPG that is not good.

[AresKeith]

StreetMagic wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Mostly because the other option is Loghain.

My CE took Loghain's head off so fast. You do not sell her family and friends and expect to get away with it. Oh hell no. She spent the whole alienage plot in roaring rampage of revenge mode.

If you haven't done it, try Loghain first. He's awesome.

No *meme*

What does the "meme" part mean?

In any case, I don't care to defend him. That'd just ruin it. Just recommending it.

I was post a pic saying no but the mods might take it down 

[David7204]

You can have the option of treating whatever characters you want like crap so long as you accept the reality of those characters sticking around and contributing to the story anyway.

[David7204]

Steelcan wrote...
]Let me spell it out plainly,

A-N-D    T-H-E    I-N-V-E-R-S-E   S-H-O-U-L-D   A-L-S-O   H-O-L-D    T-R-U-E

otherwise roleplaying is restricted severely, and in an RPG that is not good.

What 'inverse' is that?

Modifié par David7204, 17 juillet 2013 - 12:07 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Steelcan wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

XD you horrible person you.

I can't do that to Alistair. Even on my characters that hate him.

Mostly because the other option is Loghain.

My CE took Loghain's head off so fast. You do not sell her family and friends and expect to get away with it. Oh hell no. She spent the whole alienage plot in roaring rampage of revenge mode.

Sounds like your city elf and my city elf ought to go out and get drinks.

I hear Loghain is awesome, though. Gotta play a Warden with a perspective consistent with keeping him alive sometime.

Wasn't that more Howe's doing?

It was - and he paid for it.

Honestly, I wanted to keep Loghain alive just for practicality's sake (how many generals does Ferelden have, anyway?), but I made the mistake of not setting up Anora and Alistair (character-consistent blind playthrough). Ruling alone, Alistair ordered him executed right after the fight.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 17 juillet 2013 - 12:09 .

[David7204]

StreetMagic wrote...
]
So your main concern is to preach morality to people? Not roleplaying? Is that why everyone makes fun of you when you talk about "heroism"? I've seen it that come up before.. I think I'm starting to understand.

My concern is defending rich storytelling from demands that it be removed or reduced on the foolish basis that people might not like a character in a story.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
]Let me spell it out plainly,

A-N-D    T-H-E    I-N-V-E-R-S-E   S-H-O-U-L-D   A-L-S-O   H-O-L-D    T-R-U-E

otherwise roleplaying is restricted severely, and in an RPG that is not good.

What 'inverse' is that?

Rivalry, competition  (something I liked about DA:2).  You do not have to be everybody's friend, nor should you be.  The PC should have some people he grates with but still must work with to get the job done.  People you do  ot like, but have to cooperate with.  Anders in DA:2 is a great example.  He is undeniably central to the plot, yet you can hate his guts and he yours.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...
]
So your main concern is to preach morality to people? Not roleplaying? Is that why everyone makes fun of you when you talk about "heroism"? I've seen it that come up before.. I think I'm starting to understand.

My concern is defending rich storytelling from demands that it be removed or reduced on the foolish basis that people might not like a character in a story.

The game is not lesser because you miss out on some content because you were a ****** to a character.  It adds to the feel of the story.   Branching narratives and all that.

[Ryzaki]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Wait, Morrigan's ritual is bugged?

My female City Elf was at Friendly status with her. Was dialogue at that status to be different somehow? Granted, I don't have a basis for comparison... only got one Warden to that point thus far...

Right. Topic.

Yeah I believe so. She gives neutral/hostile dialogue even when you're at friendly. And she's supposed to mention the romances. I kept getting the "glory" dialogue and no mention of my LI. (And no wasn't Alistair was Leliana and Zev. Still no mentions). And she had a pretty bad bug in the ritual conversation for those who romanced her but that was a flag rather than dialogue.

[David7204]

That has never been in question for a damn minute. There have always been characters that react with the player but aren't necessarily friendly. In fact, I would say most characters meet that criteria.

Modifié par David7204, 17 juillet 2013 - 12:11 .

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...
]
So your main concern is to preach morality to people? Not roleplaying? Is that why everyone makes fun of you when you talk about "heroism"? I've seen it that come up before.. I think I'm starting to understand.

My concern is defending rich storytelling from demands that it be removed or reduced on the foolish basis that people might not like a character in a story.

So you don't like penalties in games?

[Ryzaki]

David7204 wrote...

No. That's stupid. Being 'optional' is used as a defense to justify basically anything in a video game, and it's ridiculous.

Some content should not be optional. Some content can't be optional. Characters should be able to have motivations within the main non-optional storyline that relay on trust and compassion and friendship and love.

Despite your ridiculous strawman, nobody is claiming that people "NEVER help other people" for their own benefit. That's utterly stupid. It is, however, claiming that stories should have the option of SOMETIMES have people do things because of the qualities I listed.

And why on EARTH can't that be OPTIONAL? What's wrong with optional? Must you insist on everyone's PC having the same exact relationship with the NPCs?

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

You can have the option of treating whatever characters you want like crap so long as you accept the reality of those characters sticking around and contributing to the story anyway.

That is fine, now let the other character reflect that.  I was pretty assholish to Liara in ME2/3, yet she still acts like we are best friends, and it is annoying as hell.

[David7204]

I don't like stories being restricted to every character doing every non-optional action out of duty to the job and nothing else because people demand that no character do something friendly when the player doesn't like them.

[DeinonSlayer]

Ryzaki wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Wait, Morrigan's ritual is bugged?

My female City Elf was at Friendly status with her. Was dialogue at that status to be different somehow? Granted, I don't have a basis for comparison... only got one Warden to that point thus far...

Right. Topic.

Yeah I believe so. She gives neutral/hostile dialogue even when you're at friendly. And she's supposed to mention the romances. I kept getting the "glory" dialogue and no mention of my LI. (And no wasn't Alistair was Leliana and Zev. Still no mentions). And she had a pretty bad bug in the ritual conversation for those who romanced her but that was a flag rather than dialogue.

Makes sense. She seemed very cold in that sequence, compared to typical "friend" interaction with my CE.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

That has never been in question for a damn minute. There have always been characters that react with the player but aren't necessarily friendly. In fact, I would say most characters meet that criteria.

Not in ME

[MassivelyEffective0730]

AresKeith wrote...

David7204 wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

So your main concern is to preach morality to people? Not roleplaying? Is that why everyone makes fun of you when you talk about "heroism"? I've seen it that come up before.. I think I'm starting to understand.

My concern is defending rich storytelling from demands that it be removed or reduced on the foolish basis that people might not like a character in a story.

So you don't like penalties in games?

Only if they come from paragon decisions...