251 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

I don't like stories being restricted to every character doing every non-optional action out of duty to the job and nothing else because people demand that no character do something friendly when the player doesn't like them.

Again, no one is saying that.  What we are saying is that characters should react to the PC.  If they are nice they should act one way, dickish, another.  None of this forced friendship crap with Liara, Garrus, Anderson, etc...

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

I don't like stories being restricted to every character doing every non-optional action out of duty to the job and nothing else because people demand that no character do something friendly when the player doesn't like them.

So essentially you want everyones playthroughs and roleplaying experience to be the same

[Ryzaki]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
t was - and he paid for it.

Honestly, I wanted to keep Loghain alive just for practicality's sake (how many generals does Ferelden have, anyway?), but I made the mistake of not setting up Anora and Alistair (character-consistent blind playthrough). Ruling alone, Alistair ordered him executed right after the fight.

Heh my HN's justification is a smear like Howe would've never had the nerve to do what he did unless he knew he'd be backed up and wouldn't have to face justice. That backup in my HN's eyes was Loghain. Right or not. So yeah my HN kills him too. They'd kill his daughter but they're better than Howe is. (My mage and CE have no such qualms). But frankly marrying Anora to a hardened Alistair with my femPC as his mistress serves them nicely. They're free to go where they choose, they don't have to worry about the kingdom and they kick major ass

[DeinonSlayer]

AresKeith wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I don't like stories being restricted to every character doing every non-optional action out of duty to the job and nothing else because people demand that no character do something friendly when the player doesn't like them.

So essentially you want everyones playthroughs and roleplaying experience to be the same

He strenuously objected to the inclusion of the Engineer-only class interrupt in the Omega DLC.

[David7204]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You can have the option of treating whatever characters you want like crap so long as you accept the reality of those characters sticking around and contributing to the story anyway.

That is fine, now let the other character reflect that.  I was pretty assholish to Liara in ME2/3, yet she still acts like we are best friends, and it is annoying as hell.

So as I said, accepting the reality of characters sticking around and contributing to the plot anyway.

So Liara still saves Shepard's body.
She still becomes the Shadow Broker.
She's still a part of the crew in ME 3.

There would also probably be smaller things like hugging her on Illium. Ideally, that wouldn't be the case, but putting in animations for a kiss, hug, handshake, staredown, and giving-the-finger gets overwhelming very quickly and is frankly too much to expect. From any developer.

Modifié par David7204, 17 juillet 2013 - 12:17 .

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I don't like stories being restricted to every character doing every non-optional action out of duty to the job and nothing else because people demand that no character do something friendly when the player doesn't like them.

Again, no one is saying that.  What we are saying is that characters should react to the PC.  If they are nice they should act one way, dickish, another.  None of this forced friendship crap with Liara, Garrus, Anderson, etc...

This.

X, Y and Z incident would still happen. Flavor text would be different.

And maybe just maybe if the devs want maybe if the NPC is friendly X happens, if angry Y happens. Both lead to the same end eventually (Z) but there's different quests involved. Maybe if they don't trust you enough you have to et a roundabout way of getting the same information.

Everyone's story having the same exact relationships bleh.

@David: Oh please. You're telling me a hug prompt that can be ignored is "too much"? Really? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 juillet 2013 - 12:18 .

[David7204]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

He strenuously objected to the inclusion of the Engineer-only class interrupt in the Omega DLC.

That's incorrect. I don't have an issue with the interrupt, since it has no real effect on the story. I do have the issue with the BSN's shortsighted support with the feature.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

AresKeith wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I don't like stories being restricted to every character doing every non-optional action out of duty to the job and nothing else because people demand that no character do something friendly when the player doesn't like them.

So essentially you want everyones playthroughs and roleplaying experience to be the same

Yes... Swinging the stick.

[David7204]

I don't think you're going to be able to come up with an explanation of why Liara saves Shepard's body when they hate each other. Or why s/he fights alongside her and allows her to become the Shadow Broker. Or why Shepard allows her on the ship in ME 3. Or why Anderson gives Shepard the apartment. Or why Anderson speaks to Shepard warmly when he dies, because there really should not be an option to treat him like crap at that point.

Modifié par David7204, 17 juillet 2013 - 12:21 .

[DeinonSlayer]

David7204 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

He strenuously objected to the inclusion of the Engineer-only class interrupt in the Omega DLC.

That's incorrect. I don't have an issue with the interrupt, since it has no real effect on the story. I do have the issue with the BSN's shortsighted support with the feature.

Then I'm sure you'd be appalled by DA:O. Depending on which origin you choose, different people know you and react differently to you based on their involvement (or lack thereof) in the origin, ranging from friendly to hostile. Different people may or may not be alive. Certain dialogue choices are locked out if the player's Cunning, Willpower, or Dexterity isn't high enough (I think there's a Nature Resistance-dependent dialogue option, too), whether they are or are not a mage, and which skills they possess (ie: stealth, lockpicking).

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 17 juillet 2013 - 12:22 .

[Ryzaki]

StreetMagic wrote...

lol.. I'm happy enough to find other people don't like the hug on Illium. That's hilarious.

For me though, it's nothing against Liara specifically. I just think hugging is stupid.

It is.

Was especially hilarious with my mega racist renedouche who spent the whole last game being a douchebag to any alien he could see.

My first reaction was "wait what? Back the same my ass TIM."



Oi vey. Liara could save Shep's life because you remember when Shep saved her life? Yeah? The same Shep that mercy kills her indoctrinated mother?

Liara could feel she owes Shep a debt. That Shep's the best chance of stopping the horde of machines that are coming to destroy them all. She doesn't have to be his bestest buddy to save his life and hand him to Cerberus. Also her feelings could be all ONE SIDED. Having a crush on someone who treats you like crap isn't exactly awe inducing but it happens.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 juillet 2013 - 12:27 .

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You can have the option of treating whatever characters you want like crap so long as you accept the reality of those characters sticking around and contributing to the story anyway.

That is fine, now let the other character reflect that.  I was pretty assholish to Liara in ME2/3, yet she still acts like we are best friends, and it is annoying as hell.

So as I said, accepting the reality of characters sticking around and contributing to the plot anyway.

So Liara still saves Shepard's body.
She still becomes the Shadow Broker.
She's still a part of the crew in ME 3.

There would also probably be smaller things like hugging her on Illium. Ideally, that wouldn't be the case, but putting in animations for a kiss, hug, handshake, staredown, and giving-the-finger gets overwhelming very quickly and is frankly too much to expect. From any developer.

They did do that for romance imports.  They hug and and kiss when they meet on Ilium.  Unless that happened for non-romances as well.

Modifié par Steelcan, 17 juillet 2013 - 12:22 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

David7204 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

He strenuously objected to the inclusion of the Engineer-only class interrupt in the Omega DLC.

That's incorrect. I don't have an issue with the interrupt, since it has no real effect on the story. I do have the issue with the BSN's shortsighted support with the feature.

Then I'm sure you'd be appalled by DA:O. Depending on which origin you choose, different people know you and react differently to you based on their involvement (or lack thereof) in the origin, ranging from friendly to hostile. Different people may or may not be alive. Certain dialogue choices are locked out if the player's Cunning, Willpower, or Dexterity isn't high enough (I think there's a Nature Resistance-dependent dialogue option, too).

I was literally about to use this example but thought about it. You're correct though.

I love how Rogues can get completely different content from the other classes and progress the story differently just by going stealth and stealing something.

[PMC65]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I just read this whole page and I have absolutely no clue what any of this has to do with anything.

I guess David derailed another thread?

The thread was pretty much already derailed when the Miranda Ashley Liara hate started.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

PMC65 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I just read this whole page and I have absolutely no clue what any of this has to do with anything.

I guess David derailed another thread?

The thread was pretty much already derailed when the Miranda Ashley Liara hate started.

Character hate is so much fun though!

But yeah, now it's just David trying to argue that essentially everyone should have the same game as him.

Swinging his stick.

[Ryzaki]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

David7204 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

He strenuously objected to the inclusion of the Engineer-only class interrupt in the Omega DLC.

That's incorrect. I don't have an issue with the interrupt, since it has no real effect on the story. I do have the issue with the BSN's shortsighted support with the feature.

Then I'm sure you'd be appalled by DA:O. Depending on which origin you choose, different people know you and react differently to you based on their involvement (or lack thereof) in the origin, ranging from friendly to hostile. Different people may or may not be alive. Certain dialogue choices are locked out if the player's Cunning, Willpower, or Dexterity isn't high enough (I think there's a Nature Resistance-dependent dialogue option, too).

I was literally about to use this example but thought about it. You're correct though.

I love how Rogues can get completely different content from the other classes and progress the story differently just by going stealth and stealing something.

Duncan calling out your stealing fail in Ostagar is hilarious.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

I don't think you're going to be able to come up with an explanation of why Liara saves Shepard's body when they hate each other. Or why s/he fights alongside her and allows her to become the Shadow Broker. Or why Shepard allows her on the ship in ME 3. Or why Anderson gives Shepard the apartment. Or why Anderson speaks to Shepard warmly when he dies, because there really should not be an option to treat him like crap at that point.

Because the writers have made her their little pet.

And because we are forced to be buddies with Anderson

[AresKeith]

Ryzaki wrote...
Duncan calling out your stealing fail in Ostagar is hilarious.  

I miss Duncan/ Master Splinter 

[David7204]

That's two animations. The point is if you expect every interaction to be significantly different based on whether your relationship with the character is 'love,' 'close friend,' 'professional friend,' 'indifferent,' 'cold,' and 'hatred' you're going to be disappointed as hell. Which means they will inevitably be discrepencies.

Modifié par David7204, 17 juillet 2013 - 12:26 .

[David7204]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I don't think you're going to be able to come up with an explanation of why Liara saves Shepard's body when they hate each other. Or why s/he fights alongside her and allows her to become the Shadow Broker. Or why Shepard allows her on the ship in ME 3. Or why Anderson gives Shepard the apartment. Or why Anderson speaks to Shepard warmly when he dies, because there really should not be an option to treat him like crap at that point.

Because the writers have made her their little pet.

And because we are forced to be buddies with Anderson

Whatever. Is that something you can accept without whining about 'bad writing'?

[DeinonSlayer]

David7204 wrote...

That's two animations. The point is if you expect every interaction to be significantly different based on whether your relationship with the character is 'love,' 'close friend,' 'professional friend,' 'indifferent,' 'cold,' and 'hatred' you're going to be disappointed as hell. Which means they will inevitably be discrepencies.

Let me do you a favor.

Try experiencing it before declaring it impossible.

[Ryzaki]

AresKeith wrote...
I miss Duncan/ Master Splinter 

I'm meh on him. My Dalish hates the guy, my douchebag mage (that sold Jowan out) not that fond of him either, my HN is so so and my CE likes the guy (he saved her life).

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

That's two animations. The point is if you expect every interaction to be significantly different based on whether your relationship with the character is 'love,' 'close friend,' 'professional friend,' 'indifferent,' 'cold,' and 'hatred' you're going to be disappointed as hell. Which means they will inevitably be discrepencies.

Once again, DA:O.  Each companion talks differently to you based on their approval rating.  Same with Friendship/Rivalry in DA:2