1093 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's very utterly ridiculous. There are all sorts of different reasons that body may be damaged and die. And obviously, different sorts of damage would require different methods and resources to repair.

Because you can repair a brain,right?

i certianly see as within the realm of possibility 170 years from now.

So we're basing off of possibilities?  Oh, this will go no where. 

[Fixers0]

dreamgazer wrote...
... marketing stunt?

Yeah, Shepard dying and working with the badguys was a pretty big part of the marketing campaign, hence why we saw their logo pretty much everyone, despite them being some kind of shadowy, covert operation.

[Seboist]

string3r wrote...

I think you'll find that most people who hate ME3 hate ME2 as well.

Far from it. There's even people who think ME3 was just peachy except for the endings where all of a sudden "choices didn't matter" (lol).

[rohanks]

Seboist wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

It's really facisinating to see that they're are still people who actually believe that the Lazarus plotpoint is something substancially more than a incredibly poorly written, nonsencial marketing stunt and time skip.

... marketing stunt?

An example of such

and a poor one at that. Try this instead

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's very utterly ridiculous. There are all sorts of different reasons that body may be damaged and die. And obviously, different sorts of damage would require different methods and resources to repair.

Because you can repair a brain,right?

i certianly see as within the realm of possibility 170 years from now.

So it is possible to cure a bullet to the head? 

[mumba]

The mass effect trilogy is like the Beverly hills cop trilogy, first one was amazing, second one pretty damn good, third one is atrocious

[dreamgazer]

Seboist wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

It's really facisinating to see that they're are still people who actually believe that the Lazarus plotpoint is something substancially more than a incredibly poorly written, nonsencial marketing stunt and time skip.

... marketing stunt?

An example of such

Hadn't seen that teaser.  Interesting.

[mass perfection]

David7204 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's very utterly ridiculous. There are all sorts of different reasons that body may be damaged and die. And obviously, different sorts of damage would require different methods and resources to repair.

Because you can repair a brain,right?

i certianly see as within the realm of possibility 170 years from now.

Because you can restore their memory and personality 100%,too.

[The Heretic of Time]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's very utterly ridiculous. There are all sorts of different reasons that body may be damaged and die. And obviously, different sorts of damage would require different methods and resources to repair.

We already established and agreed that the act of repairing a body is nothing significant in Mass Effect (with cloning and all).

What makes Lazarus significant is the mental part of it. The fact that they managed to restore a person's personality and memories from scratch after that person being dead as dead can be. THAT is what makes Lazarus a miracle, even in the Mass Effect universe.

And that is a point that TIM does emphasize, the difficulty of nailing this aspect down.

Which is al fine and dandy, but why does the rest of the galaxy ignore the significance of succesfully pulling this off? Why is there on political uproar after the discovery that Cerberus succesfully brought a human back from the death? Why does the Council not want to bring in Shepard and Miranda for questioning about this? Why is the only future mentions of the Lazarus project stupid "I thought you were dead? - I got better" jokes?

[BaladasDemnevanni]

tonnactus wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...



Played it. And nothing came of it.

And that was different compared with Subject Zero how exactly? And what shoud have come out of it?
Squad banter was also there outside of Elevators(Ferros/Geth religion) and even some side missions.(if Shepard kills some space monkeys for one example)

Well,  you do have an entire mission devoted to Subject Zero's backstory....what kills Kaidan is that he's basically a reskin of Carth (and the same voice-actor), only without the revenge complex, making him redundant already.

Squad banter existed, it far from prevalent. Pretty far from the level of either DA:O, DA2, or ME3. It was the exception, not the rule. Characters interact constantly in the above three examples, merely by running around.

[Redbelle]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

 Seriously, I've seen people like this. People who talk absolute trash about ME3 and point out all the flaws in that game (especially the flaws in the plot and story), yet these same people are completely blind to (many) flaws of ME2.

To point out a few of ME2's major flaws story-wise:


- The Lazarus Project: 

An over-complicated and nonsensical way of separating Shepard from his crew and railroading him into working with Cerberus. This could actually have been cool if the Lazarus Project has any further ramifications on the galaxy and Shepard himself (look at Deus Ex: Human Revolution for an example of a similar project done right).


- The status-quo of the plot: 

ME2 really does nothing to further the overall plot of Mass Effect. At the end of the game we're literally no single step further into preparing foe the reapers than we were at the start of the game, especially when you blew up the Collector base. At the end of ME2 the galaxy is ever so unprepared as at the end of ME1, even less so, because:


- The Council retcon:

The Council acknowledged Sovereign to be a reaper and acknowledged that we need to prepare ourselves for the reapers. This is completely retconned in ME2. The ME2 turned the council into an even more ridiculously stupid bunch than they already were in ME1.


- Giant Baby Arnold:

Seriously, the human terminator reaper at the end of ME2 is ridiculous. It just looks silly, it makes no sense and the purpose of this giant terminator reaper is never explained in this game or the next. Seriously, what was the point of the Collectors, what was the point of starting the harvest before the reapers were even there and what was the point of Giant Baby Arnold Terminator Reaper?


These are just a few of my complaints about ME2.


So tell me people, how is it possible to hate ME3 yet love ME2 at the same time? How can you point out all the flaws in ME3 yet be absolutely blind to the flaws of ME2? I would very much like to know that.

Look. It's simple really. All these flaws you point too. Ok, they are....... niggles. Things that require a leap of faith, but ultimately when they happen they add to the story. And ultimately, they don't derail that story.

That's the difference. ME3 derailed it's ending. ME2 continued it's ending past baby Reaper. And let's not forget. The goal of destroying or neutralising the collector base was accomplished. The mission was clearly defined! It was accomplished! Mission over Shep's Team 1:0 Collectors.

Shepard's death and rebirth was a fun means of story telling that introduced the new Mass Effect by literally blowing the old Normandy to pieces in such a way that your Shepard is smack bang in the middle of it.

Best. Opening. Ever!

Lazarus? Even the game states just how impossible the task seemed, yet the dogged persistence required to bring the project to fruition went on to define who Miranda Lawson is. As such, Shepard death was made to give the squad member a chance to develop some character before we ever met her.

Collector base? I was hoping for more, really. But on the plus side at least there are no collectors in the Main Campaign. (MP mode's don't count after all).

The council? C'mon. Since when are those guy's ever on Shep's side?

And baby Reaper? At least, it gave us something different. It took what we knew of combat and tried to shake things up. That kind of push to continue giving more to the player than same old same old, is the mark of a good developer. Sometimes the changes work out and sometimes they don't. But they pushed the premise of combat. ME3's whole combat mechanic exist's around throwing more hordes at you and maybe giving you a Kai Leng fight. None of which stand out in the mind the way the baby Reaper fight does.

It wasn't until people said they wanted a boss fight that we were given clone Shep in a boss fight encounter that gave the gamer new rules on top of the standard fight mechanics.

Anyway. The Baby Reaper fight is superior to Kai Leng's fight as a boss character.

And as for the collectors making a Reaper? The Reapers were delayed in harvesting so the collectors were directed to take up the slack in the schedule. The Reapers essentially hired in help..... though by hired I mean slave labour.

Modifié par Redbelle, 13 juillet 2013 - 10:30 .

[AresKeith]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

David7204 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's very utterly ridiculous. There are all sorts of different reasons that body may be damaged and die. And obviously, different sorts of damage would require different methods and resources to repair.

Because you can repair a brain,right?

i certianly see as within the realm of possibility 170 years from now.

So it is possible to cure a bullet to the head? 

Zaeed took a bullet to the head

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Completely wrong.

First of all, Shepard is not moving at 'hypersonic speed.'

Secondly, in the hypothetical event that Shepard was moving at 'hypersonic speed,' once s/he hit atmosphere and started to heat up, s/he would be slowing down, not speeding up.

No, you are completely wrong.

At what speed is Shepard moving then hmm? You made a claim and failed to back it up. Wouldn't he be travelling at least several kilometers per second in space? Especially if he's ejected from a space ship? Planet's aren't still David. They're moving fast. Very fast. And Shepard would have to be moving very fast in the Normandy once he's ejected. He wouldn't just lose his speed randomly.

And he is slowing down. That's the atmosphere dragging at him. That's why he's burning at several thousand degree's. But he's also being pulled by gravity. That pull is going to become greater and stronger as he falls. And the resistance of the atmosphere isn't going to slow down his velocity to the point where he gently floats down and lands in a field of buttercups like you seem to think. Get real.

The planet's speed is irrelavent, because the Normandy is going to be moving relative to it. Just like sattilites. Or just like jumping up and down, frankly. You can crash into the Earth at a bajillion meters per second because the Earth is moving at a bajillion meters per second when you jump.

We don't know how fast Shepard is traveling. We don't know what the Normandy is doing. But we can reasonably assume the Normandy is moving at high speeds toward the planet, which is what matters. And since we don't know, we get to assume the best. Or perhaps have to assume, from your standpoint.

Once you're within significant atmosphere, gravity is not going to increase by that much. You're wrong. Shepard is going to be slowing down, not speeding up. Unless he's moving at a slow speed, in which case your whole argument falls apart anyway.

And you just argued to my opinion instead of against it in your first two paragraphs. There's nothing I need to say. You said it for me.

As for your third paragraph, no gravity is not going to increase by much. But its pull will be the same. Atmosphere or no, he's going to impact heavily. But the velocity isn't going to be slowed down to the levels you think it is. Shepard will be moving at a speed of several hundred to several thousand miles per hour. And that's much more than high enough of a velocity to be fatal without anything to slow him down significantly. 

Don't add factors into my argument that are irrelevant. That's misrepresenting my argument, and it doesn't help yours by saying, "if this were the case, your argument would be false." It's not the case, and not relevant.

[David7204]

The Night Mammoth wrote...
So it is possible to cure a bullet to the head?

We've 'cured' bullets to the head today.

Modifié par David7204, 13 juillet 2013 - 10:27 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That's very utterly ridiculous. There are all sorts of different reasons that body may be damaged and die. And obviously, different sorts of damage would require different methods and resources to repair.

We already established and agreed that the act of repairing a body is nothing significant in Mass Effect (with cloning and all).

What makes Lazarus significant is the mental part of it. The fact that they managed to restore a person's personality and memories from scratch after that person being dead as dead can be. THAT is what makes Lazarus a miracle, even in the Mass Effect universe.

And that is a point that TIM does emphasize, the difficulty of nailing this aspect down.

Which is al fine and dandy, but why does the rest of the galaxy ignore the significance of succesfully pulling this off? Why is there on political uproar after the discovery that Cerberus succesfully brought a human back from the death? Why does the Council not want to bring in Shepard and Miranda for questioning about this? Why is the only future mentions of the Lazarus project stupid "I thought you were dead? - I got better" jokes?

Just to be clear, I was agreeing with you.

[Ghost Lightning]

1992 and 21 years. People having opinions.

[spirosz]

dreamgazer wrote...

Seboist wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...

It's really facisinating to see that they're are still people who actually believe that the Lazarus plotpoint is something substancially more than a incredibly poorly written, nonsencial marketing stunt and time skip.

... marketing stunt?

An example of such

Hadn't seen that teaser.  Interesting.

Thats still my favourite trailer. 

[Erez Kristal]

Understanding the brain is the greatest challange we face in modern times.
The Quest for immortality will resolve around the brain. In a time of mass effect fields. faster than light speeds it is reasonable to believe that one of the world most expensive projects will be able to return brain activity to whatever remained of shepard brain.

Remember Folks this is 2185 FTL and all.

[AlanC9]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

So it is possible to cure a bullet to the head? 

How big a bullet? Typical handgun? Maybe, depending on how it hit. 40mm cannon? Probably not.

Unless we can back up the brain data and clone new bodies. In which case you can not only cure anything, you could also have mutiple instances of the same person.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 juillet 2013 - 10:29 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mumba1511 wrote...

The mass effect trilogy is like the Beverly hills cop trilogy, first one was amazing, second one pretty damn good, third one is atrocious

I consider it like the Star Wars trilogy, the original.

The first one is great, the second one is even better, and the third is just so disappointing in comparison to the other two. It's still "good" but it's not the same or up to the level of its predecessor's.

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...
So it is possible to cure a bullet to the head?

We've 'cured' bullets to the head today.

So why are you saying Lazarus Project can't cure a bullet to the head?

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...
So it is possible to cure a bullet to the head?

We've 'cured' bullets to the head today.

I think the implication was that the person died, as in died like Shepard died after hitting Alchera's surface, from the bullet. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 13 juillet 2013 - 10:31 .

[David7204]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

And you just argued to my opinion instead of against it in your first two paragraphs. There's nothing I need to say. You said it for me.

As for your third paragraph, no gravity is not going to increase by much. But its pull will be the same. Atmosphere or no, he's going to impact heavily. But the velocity isn't going to be slowed down to the levels you think it is. Shepard will be moving at a speed of several hundred to several thousand miles per hour. And that's much more than high enough of a velocity to be fatal without anything to slow him down significantly. 

Don't add factors into my argument that are irrelevant. That's misrepresenting my argument, and it doesn't help yours by saying, "if this were the case, your argument would be false." It's not the case, and not relevant.

That was a typo I fixed. It should be 'don't' instead of 'can.'

Why don't you go Google terminal velocity? I can assure you it's nothing remotely close to 'thousands of miles per hour.'

Modifié par David7204, 13 juillet 2013 - 10:30 .

[Mcfly616]

People call Synthesis: "space magic". Yet, we've seen it before. Hello, Project Lazarus.

People blame ME3 for autodialogue. Which actually made its debut in ME2.

People say your choices don't matter in ME3. Well, your choices matter in ME2 about as much as they do in 3.....if not even less.

Don't get me started on the waste of time narrative focus on the Collectors.

Shoehorned into joining Cerberus.

Taking away nearly the entire original crew (stunting character growth), and over-populating the Normandy with a bunch of comic book heroes.

People hate the Catalyst (I'll admit, I hate the fact it appears as a child. Kids are just annoying). But come on, that human Reaper fetus is just god awful. And imo, trying to come up with something different and thoughtful is better than just coming right out and saying "hey we're idiots...now abort this human Reaper fetus"



Don't get me wrong, the Suicide Mission is awesome. It just makes ME2 that much more of a drag, because I'm trying to get to the last mission. But it honestly baffles me when people trash ME3s ending, then immediately praise ME2's from a narrative standpoint. Narratively speaking, ME2's ending is the most ordinary and mediocre ending of the trilogy.

First, you kill the Reaper fetus (god, that's not a great start). Then, you get up and escape the Collector base while being chased by seeker swarms. Base explodes, we tell TIM to shove it, and then we see Reapers coming. (Okay, I'll admit that last bit gives me chills). That (for the most part) seems like the script of a Michael Bay action film. (While fun, it isn't anything to put on a pedestal)

Meanwhile, I had chills the entire time after going up the beam in ME3 (Extended Cut). We all have our preferences though.