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[mass perfection]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Was Assassin's Creed Revelations filler?

I wouldn't say so. It moves our protagonist around to where he needs to be, on a narrative level. It puts him on a clear path forward and has allowed him to overcome the Bleeding Effect.

Desmond actually has character development for a change (yes, I laughed typing that).

Whether they were good stories is another question entirely, but Brotherhood and Revelations did push the story forward.

He does?

Indeed he does. If you explore his dialogue with Lucy between AC1, 2, and the beginning of Revelations, they go into more detail about Desmond's being a reluctant hero, not ever wanting to be an assassin to begin with.

If you explore those puzzle areas, the narrative deals with Desmond confronting his past and realizing that he can't keep setting aside his role/identity.

Forgot about those.But how come in AC1,Desmond didn't know anything about Assassin's or Templars even though his father kept telling him stories about them when he was a kid.Never did he go:"My father used to tell me that as a story when I was a kid!" while he was in the Animus in AC1,2,or Brotherhood.

[The Heretic of Time]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think ME2 is being bashed (unfairly, in my opinion) because ME3 didn't come from the lead that ME2 established.

What lead did ME2 establish and how did ME3 not follow up on this?

I'm completely unware of any lead being established by ME2, other than "omg the reapers are coming", which ME3 clearly does follow up on.

Well, in scenarios where the Base survives at least (ignoring my opinion on the save import scheme), ME2 left the impression that TIM would data mine the base and get something useful from that (much like our own Thanix cannons off Sovereign).

Of course, the Collector Base didn't do anything useful, so meh.

The fact that keeping the Collector base is optional and that the vast majority of dumb-ass Paragon players would blow it up made me well-aware that the Collector base probably was not going to do a whole lot in ME3. I already said this back in the ME2 days, long before ME3 was officially announced.

I'm not proud of happy to say this, but yeah, I was right, and being right never felt so bad.

[TheProtheans]

This is some butthurt thread where there is no answer to it, it simply is.

I don't know why other people like ME2 and ME1 more than ME3 but I like them more because they don't f**k me in the butt.
ME1 is the beginning, you get to your see where you stand.
ME2 is like "this is weird, but at least is not the conclusion".
ME3 is like getting your heart crushed.

In some ways despite how moronic the OP sounds, there is reasons to hate the first two games.
I hate the first two games because they helped create a pile of crap that haunts gamers.
But that is like hating that girl that gave birth to that alien in that movie I will not check how to spell.
I'm not sure I hate her, in fact I see her in a different light.

While people can blame ME2 and ME1, the blame ultimately lies with the team at Bioware.
After ME2 a sucky badly written game was not 100% likely and neither was the chance of the that alien mouth raping those creators
Blaming the first two installments is an insult to what could have been if Bioware was more creative.

[mass perfection]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think ME2 is being bashed (unfairly, in my opinion) because ME3 didn't come from the lead that ME2 established.

What lead did ME2 establish and how did ME3 not follow up on this?

I'm completely unware of any lead being established by ME2, other than "omg the reapers are coming", which ME3 clearly does follow up on.

Well, in scenarios where the Base survives at least (ignoring my opinion on the save import scheme), ME2 left the impression that TIM would data mine the base and get something useful from that (much like our own Thanix cannons off Sovereign).

Of course, the Collector Base didn't do anything useful, so meh.

The fact that keeping the Collector base is optional and that the vast majority of dumb-ass Paragon players would blow it up made me well-aware that the Collector base probably was not going to do a whole lot in ME3. I already said this back in the ME2 days, long before ME3 was officially announced.

I'm not proud of happy to say this, but yeah, I was right, and being right never felt so bad.

Paragon's are liberals and Renegades are Republicans.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

mass perfection wrote...

Forgot about those.But how come in AC1,Desmond didn't know anything about Assassin's or Templars even though his father kept telling him stories about them when he was a kid.Never did he go:"My father used to tell me that as a story when I was a kid!" while he was in the Animus in AC1,2,or Brotherhood.

Desmond did know some stuff about the Assassins. That's one of the first things Vidic points out to him.

He calls Desmond an assassin in AC1, at which point he responds: "But I'm not an Assassin. Not anymore". I think he also mentions his dad talking about them when Lucy reveals Abstergo = Templars.

He knows about the order, even if he was reluctantly involved. What he didn't believe was his Dad's crazy stories about the Templars being their mortal enemies hunting them constantly. That (I think) is brought up a bit more in Revelations.

Because he never actually dealt with Templars, Desmond got fed up with the farm life-style and made a run for it, which is how he ends up getting kidnapped.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 14 juillet 2013 - 12:43 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think ME2 is being bashed (unfairly, in my opinion) because ME3 didn't come from the lead that ME2 established.

What lead did ME2 establish and how did ME3 not follow up on this?

I'm completely unware of any lead being established by ME2, other than "omg the reapers are coming", which ME3 clearly does follow up on.

Well, in scenarios where the Base survives at least (ignoring my opinion on the save import scheme), ME2 left the impression that TIM would data mine the base and get something useful from that (much like our own Thanix cannons off Sovereign).

Of course, the Collector Base didn't do anything useful, so meh.

The fact that keeping the Collector base is optional and that the vast majority of dumb-ass Paragon players would blow it up made me well-aware that the Collector base probably was not going to do a whole lot in ME3. I already said this back in the ME2 days, long before ME3 was officially announced.

I'm not proud of happy to say this, but yeah, I was right, and being right never felt so bad.

I had similar thoughts (at least from a practicality standpoint). Still, it's sad to see it did less than even my expectations.

[The Heretic of Time]

mass perfection wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think ME2 is being bashed (unfairly, in my opinion) because ME3 didn't come from the lead that ME2 established.

What lead did ME2 establish and how did ME3 not follow up on this?

I'm completely unware of any lead being established by ME2, other than "omg the reapers are coming", which ME3 clearly does follow up on.

Well, in scenarios where the Base survives at least (ignoring my opinion on the save import scheme), ME2 left the impression that TIM would data mine the base and get something useful from that (much like our own Thanix cannons off Sovereign).

Of course, the Collector Base didn't do anything useful, so meh.

The fact that keeping the Collector base is optional and that the vast majority of dumb-ass Paragon players would blow it up made me well-aware that the Collector base probably was not going to do a whole lot in ME3. I already said this back in the ME2 days, long before ME3 was officially announced.

I'm not proud of happy to say this, but yeah, I was right, and being right never felt so bad.

Paragon's are liberals and Renegades are Republicans.

American black-and-white politics don't concern me. Im a Liberalist and a Renegade. 

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 14 juillet 2013 - 12:44 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think ME2 is being bashed (unfairly, in my opinion) because ME3 didn't come from the lead that ME2 established.

What lead did ME2 establish and how did ME3 not follow up on this?

I'm completely unware of any lead being established by ME2, other than "omg the reapers are coming", which ME3 clearly does follow up on.

Here's how I see it. I'll try to answer your previous question.

Im fine if you disagree, but this is legit how I view the story as progressing.




What it means:

ME1 is surrounded by lines. Those lines are the different possibilities the sequel, aka Mass Effect 2, could have taken.

ME2 leads into ME3. The highlighted line represents the progression of story. While ME2 could have gone in many different directions to ME1, it went the line it did, and set up a line that ME3 was expected to make, following the established path set forward by ME2, and then from ME1, keeping in line with both.

What we got was an ME3 that was more in line with a sequel to that game, rather than it being a sequel to both ME2 AND ME1. It took a different path.

There's a reason that all the things feel out of place in ME2. Had ME3 followed the intended path, nothing would feel out of place. Instead, ME3 seems to stem from ME1, taking some elements from ME2, but not really following its progression as a story. That's what I think you're seeing.

Had BioWare actually thought out the trilogy instead of winging it, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I'm trying to make sense here. Please let me know if I'm not. I really am trying to get you to see where I'm coming from here, and I'm trying to make as much sense as possible on this.

If all else fails, lets agree to disagree.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 14 juillet 2013 - 12:50 .

[mass perfection]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Forgot about those.But how come in AC1,Desmond didn't know anything about Assassin's or Templars even though his father kept telling him stories about them when he was a kid.Never did he go:"My father used to tell me that as a story when I was a kid!" while he was in the Animus in AC1,2,or Brotherhood.

Desmond did know some stuff about the Assassins. That's one of the first things Vidic points out to him.

He calls Desmond an assassin in AC1, at which point he responds: "But I'm not an Assassin. Not anymore". I think he also mentions his dad talking about them when Lucy reveals Abstergo = Templars.

He knows about the order, even if he was reluctantly involved. What he didn't believe was his Dad's crazy stories about the Templars being their mortal enemies hunting them constantly. That (I think) is brought up a bit more in Revelations.

Because he never actually dealt with Templars, Desmond got fed up with the farm life-style and made a run for it, which is how he ends up getting kidnapped.

Oh,yeah.I still don't get how Altair became Al Mualim's best Assassin when Altair broke all three tenants in one missions and seems to have always consdiered himself above the assassin's ideology due to arrogance.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think ME2 is being bashed (unfairly, in my opinion) because ME3 didn't come from the lead that ME2 established.

What lead did ME2 establish and how did ME3 not follow up on this?

I'm completely unware of any lead being established by ME2, other than "omg the reapers are coming", which ME3 clearly does follow up on.

Well, in scenarios where the Base survives at least (ignoring my opinion on the save import scheme), ME2 left the impression that TIM would data mine the base and get something useful from that (much like our own Thanix cannons off Sovereign).

Of course, the Collector Base didn't do anything useful, so meh.

The fact that keeping the Collector base is optional and that the vast majority of dumb-ass Paragon players would blow it up made me well-aware that the Collector base probably was not going to do a whole lot in ME3. I already said this back in the ME2 days, long before ME3 was officially announced.

I'm not proud of happy to say this, but yeah, I was right, and being right never felt so bad.

Paragon's are liberals and Renegades are Republicans.

American black-and-white politics don't concern me. Im a Liberalist and a Renegade. 

Paragon and Renegade hardly fit into American politics. I'm saying that as person who has a Political Science degree and am working on my M.A. in International Relations.

[AresKeith]

mass perfection wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Forgot about those.But how come in AC1,Desmond didn't know anything about Assassin's or Templars even though his father kept telling him stories about them when he was a kid.Never did he go:"My father used to tell me that as a story when I was a kid!" while he was in the Animus in AC1,2,or Brotherhood.

Desmond did know some stuff about the Assassins. That's one of the first things Vidic points out to him.

He calls Desmond an assassin in AC1, at which point he responds: "But I'm not an Assassin. Not anymore". I think he also mentions his dad talking about them when Lucy reveals Abstergo = Templars.

He knows about the order, even if he was reluctantly involved. What he didn't believe was his Dad's crazy stories about the Templars being their mortal enemies hunting them constantly. That (I think) is brought up a bit more in Revelations.

Because he never actually dealt with Templars, Desmond got fed up with the farm life-style and made a run for it, which is how he ends up getting kidnapped.

Oh,yeah.I still don't get how Altair became Al Mualim's best Assassin when Altair broke all three tenants in one missions and seems to have always consdiered himself above the assassin's ideology due to arrogance.

Because he knew Altair would one day learn and Altair really was the best Assassin back then

[BaladasDemnevanni]

mass perfection wrote...

Oh,yeah.I still don't get how Altair became Al Mualim's best Assassin when Altair broke all three tenants in one missions and seems to have always consdiered himself above the assassin's ideology due to arrogance.

That's a bit harder. In terms of sheer ability, Altair was the best assassin, but like that first mission shows he didn't give two craps about the creed and that ultimately cost him.

Altair's development in AC1 is all about him learning what the Assassins actually stand for. He always had the ability, he was just lacking the spirituality/philosophical aspects. Al Mualim does tell him that the only reason he kept him alive was because it would be  a waste to throw away someone who is (usally) an excellent assassin.

And secretly, Al Mualim wanted him to get rid of the other Templars. Remember, Al Mualim himself doesn't care about the creed either, despite being a great teacher.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 14 juillet 2013 - 12:52 .

[mass perfection]

 

[The Heretic of Time]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think ME2 is being bashed (unfairly, in my opinion) because ME3 didn't come from the lead that ME2 established.

What lead did ME2 establish and how did ME3 not follow up on this?

I'm completely unware of any lead being established by ME2, other than "omg the reapers are coming", which ME3 clearly does follow up on.

Here's how I see it. I'll try to answer your previous question.

Im fine if you disagree, but this is legit how I view the story as progressing.

I'll leave this then, hopefully that will open up your eyes and clear things up a bit.


Just made this as a response to your drawing:

[The Heretic of Time]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Paragon and Renegade hardly fit into American politics. I'm saying that as person who has a Political Science degree and am working on my M.A. in International Relations.

As if we are not aware of that. *facepalm*

You were taking our posts about Paragon=Liberal / Renegade=Republic way too seriously.

[mass perfection]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Paragon's are liberals and Renegades are Republicans.

No. Just no.

Why not?

[The Heretic of Time]

mass perfection wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Paragon's are liberals and Renegades are Republicans.

No. Just no.

Why not?

Because Renegades are cool, Republicans are not. 

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 14 juillet 2013 - 01:05 .

[mass perfection]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Paragon's are liberals and Renegades are Republicans.

No. Just no.

Why not?

Because Renegades are cool, Republicans are not. 

Because Democrats are way cooler,right?

[dreamgazer]

mass perfection wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Paragon's are liberals and Renegades are Republicans.

No. Just no.

Why not?

Why?

[Seboist]

mass perfection wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Paragon's are liberals and Renegades are Republicans.

No. Just no.

Why not?

Because Renegades are cool, Republicans are not. 

Because Democrats are way cooler,right?

Paragon is lame, so it'd suit the Democrats just fine.

Modifié par Seboist, 14 juillet 2013 - 01:07 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think ME2 is being bashed (unfairly, in my opinion) because ME3 didn't come from the lead that ME2 established.

What lead did ME2 establish and how did ME3 not follow up on this?

I'm completely unware of any lead being established by ME2, other than "omg the reapers are coming", which ME3 clearly does follow up on.

Here's how I see it. I'll try to answer your previous question.

Im fine if you disagree, but this is legit how I view the story as progressing.

I'll leave this then, hopefully that will open up your eyes and clear things up a bit.


Just made this as a response to your drawing:

Agree to disagree then.

I don't think ME2 was redundant to ME1 or that nothing happened. I think that overall, it seems nothing happened because ME3 didn't follow the path that ME2 set.

That's where our disagreement comes from.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 14 juillet 2013 - 01:11 .

[mass perfection]

Seboist wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Paragon's are liberals and Renegades are Republicans.

No. Just no.

Why not?

Because Renegades are cool, Republicans are not. 

Because Democrats are way cooler,right?

Paragon is lame, so it'd suit the Democrats just fine.

So Renegade suits Republicans?

[The Heretic of Time]

mass perfection wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

Paragon's are liberals and Renegades are Republicans.

No. Just no.

Why not?

Because Renegades are cool, Republicans are not. 

Because Democrats are way cooler,right?

Don't know, don't care. I'm not an American. I can't even give two sh*ts about the politics of my own country, nevermind the politics of someone else's country.

[Seboist]

Other than CB and Mordin/Legion/Tali LM there's nothing of note in ME2 for 3 to follow up upon.