1093 réponses à ce sujet

[The Heretic of Time]

Maguel83 wrote...

Illusive man is the key to saving the galaxy No Cerberus=no Normandy. No Illusive man=no project Lazarus. So I would say project Lazarus was pretty damn important for the galaxy.

Yet that 'important" plot point gets completely shafted after the ME2 prologue, never to be mentioned again aside from some stupid "I thought you died? - I got better" jokes.

[Nole]

ME2 is perfect indeed.

[Secretlyapotato]

David7204 wrote...

Do they leave a 'gorey mess'? No.

Oh? Glad you agree.

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

Ridiculous. Skydivers have fallen from terminal velocity all the time. Some of them have even survived. Do they leave a 'gorey mess'? No.

So much facepalm from this post


Apparently you didn't notice that Shepard started to burn while falling to the planet

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

I see absolutely no reason at all why an organization like Cerberus wouldn't be able to restore function to Shepard's brain and body 170 years in the future.

No reason at all.

That's not the point. The point is not that they are capable of doing this, the point is that nobody in the Mass Effect universe seems to give a f*ck that Cerberus managed to bring the dead back to life. 

[David7204]

I've heard every clumsy pseudo-scientific argument there is on this subject. They all suck. They all go back to the same old nonsense.

[adayaday]

David7204 wrote...

Ridiculous. Skydivers have fallen from terminal velocity all the time. Some of them have even survived. Do they leave a 'gorey mess'? No.

I suck at physics and such, but last time i checked skydivers do not do any fancy tricks like atmospheric entry.

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

I've heard every clumsy pseudo-scientific argument there is on this subject. They all suck. They all go back to the same old nonsense.

And you don't? How about you actually address my points instead of doing what you accuse other people of doing (droning on the same nonsense over and over again like a broken record)?

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 13 juillet 2013 - 08:58 .

[Jorji Costava]

ME2 certainly isn't perfect; very far from it. The over-reliance on easy Freudian backstory, the treatment of the VS, some distinctly underwhelming villains and an overall failure to advance the supposed main plot of the series all come to mind. Still, it added a lot to the lore and setting, gave us the series' best characters (Mordin Solus is my pick for best NPC in ME, as one might gather from my profile pic) and heck, it was a lot of fun. If we want to make music comparisons, I'd say ME1 is a better overall album, but ME2 has some songs that nothing in ME1 can touch.

ME3 inherited a lot of baggage from the previous games, and a lot of plot threads for which no resolution seemed planned. Still, even allowing for all of that, it's got a lot of problems that in my opinion, render it the weakest. ME3 has the largest percentage of main plot missions that just aren't very good; the Citadel coup, Thessia, Priority Earth and Sanctuary come to mind. Even Rannoch is largely a mess in retrospect. There's also Kai Leng, copious auto-characterization, and the ending (which I won't touch here). Nothing about the previous choices dictated that these missions be as underwhelming as they were. It's still an adequate game (the multiplayer ended up being my favorite part, which I never would have expected in a million years), but it's the weakest of the trilogy IMO.

[frostajulie]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

 Seriously, I've seen people like this. People who talk absolute trash about ME3 and point out all the flaws in that game (especially the flaws in the plot and story), yet these same people are completely blind to (many) flaws of ME2.

To point out a few of ME2's major flaws story-wise:


- The Lazarus Project: 

An over-complicated and nonsensical way of separating Shepard from his crew and railroading him into working with Cerberus. This could actually have been cool if the Lazarus Project has any further ramifications on the galaxy and Shepard himself (look at Deus Ex: Human Revolution for an example of a similar project done right).


- The status-quo of the plot: 

ME2 really does nothing to further the overall plot of Mass Effect. At the end of the game we're literally no single step further into preparing foe the reapers than we were at the start of the game, especially when you blew up the Collector base. At the end of ME2 the galaxy is ever so unprepared as at the end of ME1, even less so, because:


- The Council retcon:

The Council acknowledged Sovereign to be a reaper and acknowledged that we need to prepare ourselves for the reapers. This is completely retconned in ME2. The ME2 turned the council into an even more ridiculously stupid bunch than they already were in ME1.


- Giant Baby Arnold:

Seriously, the human terminator reaper at the end of ME2 is ridiculous. It just looks silly, it makes no sense and the purpose of this giant terminator reaper is never explained in this game or the next. Seriously, what was the point of the Collectors, what was the point of starting the harvest before the reapers were even there and what was the point of Giant Baby Arnold Terminator Reaper?


These are just a few of my complaints about ME2.


So tell me people, how is it possible to hate ME3 yet love ME2 at the same time? How can you point out all the flaws in ME3 yet be absolutely blind to the flaws of ME2? I would very much like to know that.

1. Because ME2 had an extremely saisfying emotional payoff.  You leave the game happy.
2. Because based on the choices you made throughout the game your ending played out in multiple ways.  that means your choices matterred giving you a strong rush of accomplishment and satisfaction
3. Interrupts actually changed entire conversations and conversational outcomes making different playstyles more entertaining.  In ME3 several interrupts do nothing more than ding.
4. Because you actually win when you finish the game rather than choose from your favorite color of collaboration with the enemy or complete loss.
5. Because fetch quests in ME2 were subtle and didn't make you feel like a creepy socially awkward stalker.  In ME3 they were so prominently sledgehammerred into your head that it was jarring and completely killing the perception that this is a living breathing world we are playing in rather than a series of scripted game mechanics which eavesdropping fetch quests does!
6. Because the journal system in ME2 was useful

ME3 is a sad sorry excuse for a game with the exception of the Tuchanka arc, citadel DLC and combat, best forgotten, ME2 is still so much ****ing fun to play.  And as much as I personally adore the Tuchanka arc, the citadel DLC and the combat in ME3 it was not enough to make me want to replay that ****.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I acknowledge the flaws of ME2, but I never saw a narrative disconnect in the way others do. I do believe Mass Effect 2 is the best game I ever played. I'm not calling it perfect by any means though.

Does that bother you?

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:00 .

[David7204]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I see absolutely no reason at all why an organization like Cerberus wouldn't be able to restore function to Shepard's brain and body 170 years in the future.

No reason at all.

That's not the point. The point is not that they are capable of doing this, the point is that nobody in the Mass Effect universe seems to give a f*ck that Cerberus managed to bring the dead back to life. 

I'm curious. How many posts have you made whining about nobody caring about Javik being alive?

Cerberus brought back Shepard in very, very specific circumstances. Their methods are for all intents and purposes useless to anyone else. At least on a wide scale.

As for characters continually whining about the subject -  no. That's crap storytelling. Miranda tells Shepard how incredible Lazarus is. Jacob tells Shepard how incredible Lazarus is. Wilson tells Shepard how incredible Lazarus is. Contrary to what you might think, having every character whining about the same subject through the same is garbage writing, and boring.

The question is not whether the conversations happen. The question is whether such conversations are shown to the player.

Modifié par David7204, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:02 .

[Seboist]

The Collector plot was dumb as hell too. We're supposed to believe that these space bugs and their sole transport ship are going to harvest all of humanity despite the fact they run with their tails tucked in at the sight of a mere couple of AA guns and can get taken out by an unupgraded SR-2.

Then there's the related space pokemon sub-plot of collecting all these squadmates whom besides Mordin we have no reason to recruit to begin with(besides TIM saying so). They also largely all exist in their own bubbles where they don't even acknowledge each others' existence and there's no focus on getting all these differing companions to work together as a cohesive unit(It's a homeless man's Dirty Dozen).

Modifié par Seboist, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:02 .

[spirosz]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

You should probably change the title to: "People hating on ME3 yet thinking ME2 and ME1 are "perfect"."

They all have their problems, space magic, and silly plot solvers.

ME1's flaws are acceptable. I'm aware of the flaws, and ME1 is far from the best game ever. ME1's story is also far from the best story. It's rather mediocre, but fun and mostly coherent. At least ME1 doesn't have absolutely meaningless ass-pulls that get completely discarted 5 minutes later (e.g. Lazarus Project).

So are ME2's flaws.  I'm aware of the flaws in ME2.  And of course it's coherent, it's the first game, it would be pretty hard to not be consistent and follow your lore, when you're establishing it with the first game itself.  An example of an ass-pull in ME1 - Saren and that "I'll wait for the player to catch up to me till the very last moment". 

[The Heretic of Time]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I acknowledge the flaws of ME2, but I never saw a narrative disconnect in the way others do. I do believe Mass Effect 2 is the best game I ever played. I'm not calling it perfect by any means though.

Does that bother you?

Does it bother me? No.

But it does leave me scratching my head to be honest.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

It wasn't the least bit stupid at all.

Care to define how you're right?

[David7204]

adayaday wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Ridiculous. Skydivers have fallen from terminal velocity all the time. Some of them have even survived. Do they leave a 'gorey mess'? No.

I suck at physics and such, but last time i checked skydivers do not do any fancy tricks like atmospheric entry.

And how exactly do you think that makes a difference?

Modifié par David7204, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:03 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

Seboist wrote...

The Collector plot was dumb as hell too. We're supposed to believe that these space bugs and their sole transport ship are going to harvest all of humanity despite the fact they run with their tails tucked in at the sight of a mere couple of AA guns and can get taken out by an unupgraded SR-2.

Then there's the related space pokemon sub-plot of collecting all these squadmates whom besides Mordin we have no reason to recruit to begin with(besides TIM saying so). They also largely all exist in their own bubbles where they don't even acknowledge each others' existence and there's no focus on getting all these differing companions to work together as a cohesive unit(It's a homeless man's Dirty Dozen).

this

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Gosh, maybe someone should explain to me why exactly Lazarus is 'stupid' and 'meaningless' instead of droning on the same thing like a broken record?

Maybe you should explain how it isn't.

[Erez Kristal]

AresKeith wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Ridiculous. Skydivers have fallen from terminal velocity all the time. Some of them have even survived. Do they leave a 'gorey mess'? No.

So much facepalm from this post


Apparently you didn't notice that Shepard started to burn while falling to the planet

You dont know the capabilities of his suit. you dont know the densety of that planet atmosphere.
We have a lot of missing information.
Too much for people here to claim to know what shepard state of body should have been.


If anything, when we reach the normandy crashsite, we know that the planet is bellow zero tempeture. which means anything that lands will be frozen.

[David7204]

It did an outstanding job of introducing the new characters, setting and tone. Miranda and Jacob, Cerberus and EDI. The new Normandy. New crew. It was an outstanding intro. It did a great job with the relationships of the characters from the best game, with Liara in particular.

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

Jack in particular.

I agree. 

Modifié par spirosz, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:06 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I acknowledge the flaws of ME2, but I never saw a narrative disconnect in the way others do. I do believe Mass Effect 2 is the best game I ever played. I'm not calling it perfect by any means though.

Does that bother you?

Does it bother me? No.

But it does leave me scratching my head to be honest.

I got more from the story and from the game. No game is likely ever to achieve that. ME3 could've, but it failed spectacularly. 

I liked the way the story was told better than any other game. It's preference. 

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

adayaday wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Ridiculous. Skydivers have fallen from terminal velocity all the time. Some of them have even survived. Do they leave a 'gorey mess'? No.

I suck at physics and such, but last time i checked skydivers do not do any fancy tricks like atmospheric entry.

And how exactly do you think that makes a difference?

Are Skydrivers falling from Space? No