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People hating on ME3 yet thinking ME2 is "perfect"


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#501
chemiclord

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

There! You have it! There's what I was getting at! You got it!

The "line" and "direction" is the plot, the story of ME2. Everything that ME2 brings to the table is added to that line which is going in one specific direction. I honestly don't know how much more clear I can be.


Well now let me ask you... where DOES ME2's story lead?  Where does ME3 go from where ME2 left off?  The Collectors are entirely obliterated, so there's really nothing that can feature them.  It can't really focus on any of the Collector tech, because then you alienate the 60% of players who destroyed even that.  And a character-driven follow-up becomes nigh impossible when ANY of the characters could be DEAD come that third game.

The closest thread that COULD carry over was Dark Energy (which has its own problem in that it's featured in a mission that IS entirely optional)... but we kinda saw where THAT line would have been going, and it... uh... wasn't good.

As a stand-alone game, ME2 is incredible.  As the middle part of a trilogy, it is distressingly lacking.

Modifié par chemiclord, 14 juillet 2013 - 03:07 .


#502
Sumthing

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in it for the lolz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 Now it's about art huh?Here's mine

Image IPB

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB


That isn't art.

#503
in it for the lolz

in it for the lolz
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Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 Now it's about art huh?Here's mine

Image IPB

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB


That isn't art.

And why is that?

#504
AlexMBrennan

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It can't really focus on any of the Collector tech, because then you alienate the 60% of players who destroyed even that

Isn't that exactly what they did in Retribution?

#505
Sumthing

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in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 Now it's about art huh?Here's mine

Image IPB

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB


That isn't art.

And why is that?


Because it isn't aesthetically pleasing.

#506
mass perfection

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 Here's Art:Image IPB

#507
MassivelyEffective0730

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chemiclord wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

There! You have it! There's what I was getting at! You got it!

The "line" and "direction" is the plot, the story of ME2. Everything that ME2 brings to the table is added to that line which is going in one specific direction. I honestly don't know how much more clear I can be.


Well now let me ask you... where DOES ME2's story lead?  Where does ME3 go from where ME2 left off?  The Collectors are entirely obliterated, so there's really nothing that can feature them.  It can't really focus on any of the Collector tech, because then you alienate the 60% of players who destroyed even that.  And a character-driven follow-up becomes nigh impossible when ANY of the characters could be DEAD come that third game.

The closest thread that COULD carry over was Dark Energy (which has its own problem in that it's featured in a mission that IS entirely optional)... but we kinda saw where THAT line would have been going, and it... uh... wasn't good.

As a stand-alone game, ME2 is incredible.  As the middle part of a trilogy, it is distressingly lacking.


Honestly, the Dark Energy idea was one of the things I was thinking. That's really the basis of what I'm saying.

The way it would have ended up is bad yes. I think it could have been structured and executed much differently however. I think the way ME3 decided to go with it's final theme of organic vs. synthetic was what caused the house of cards to fall over entirely though. And how it failed to payoff with the elements introduced in all 3 games up to that point. That's why I say ME3 was the point where the series failed.

You can also focus more on Cerberus and where it was going with the Collector Tech. Making the transition to villain or truly ambiguous entity should have been handled better in the transition phase. I think the role Cerberus ended up with was different from the role I think they might have been orginally intended for. I can't say what that is for sure to be honest.

I will say that ME2 didn't tell the story as best it could have. I'm not going to deny that there are a lot of flaws in the writing. The "anyone can die" mechanic should have been held off until ME3. And the Suicide mission should have had more meat in regards to plot.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 14 juillet 2013 - 03:19 .


#508
in it for the lolz

in it for the lolz
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Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 Now it's about art huh?Here's mine

Image IPB

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB


That isn't art.

And why is that?


Because it isn't aesthetically pleasing.

I find it to be inspiring.

#509
Armass81

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Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

The main problems I have with Lazarus are two-fold. Probably.

1. It serves three purposes in one of the most heavy-handed, contrived manners possible: it kills the protagonist simply to enact a time-skip, forces him to work with a terrorist agency that may or may not have killed his entire squad in the past, and breaks his team apart so he can spend a great deal of time recruiting a new one. There are much better ways to accomplish those than taking such a drastic step.

2. Which brings me to my second point: it cheapens death. Here we have Shepard, killed and then revived from "meat and tubes." Oh, it certainly cost a lot of money and a good deal of time, but this is still the work of a handful of privately funded people. If they can do it, then what could the major governments do? And then, there's the philosophical cheapening of death. Shepard has been clinically dead for at least a few days, weeks, or even months, but does he ever stop to ponder the existential ramifications of that? Does anyone really comment on the fact that, for a while, the conscience of Shepard didn't even exist? No, the incredible implications of this technology is completely glazed over by a few jokes and exclamations of surprise.

They may have executed it nicely, but that only hides the underlying narrative issues with it.


Your post shows the main problems with the Lazarus project right there, Shepards death means nothing, aside from marketing gimmick,  advancing time and putting him into Cerberus. It leads to no reveal, it is not examined much by the protagonist or anyone else and worst of all the protagonist doesnt even seem to care. This was so badly botched that I really started to worry about the next game. And I was right.

So why couldnt it be a simple coma? Why did you need to kill him?

Whoever tought this was a good idea (Mac Walters?) should go back to writing school 101, asap.

Modifié par Armass81, 14 juillet 2013 - 03:24 .


#510
mass perfection

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Image IPB
Is this inspiring?

#511
The Heretic of Time

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MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

It's a conceptual problem. I really can't use an example past saying "the plot". I really can't. There's no way to simplify it further.


I'm not asking yout to simplify it, I'm asking you to answer my questions, which you fail to do.

Come on, this is not rocket science. How hard can it be to answer a bunch of simple questions?


If you don't know the answers to my questions, that's okay. You can simply admit that you have no clue what the answers to my questions are, which is fine by me. Just say so honestly if this is the case.


As for our disagreement, there really is nothing I can do to be more clear.


Again, you don't need to make things more clear. All you need to do is back-up your (as of yet) empty claims and hollow arguments.

Your arguments carry no weight because you fail to back them up with proper examples. That is the problem. It's not me misunderstanding you, it's me asking you to back up your claims and arguments, which you fail to do so.


We fundamentally don't understand each others issue. You aren't giving coherent arguments. I'm not understanding what you're looking for. I'm not saying that by any fault of yours, but I'm saying we aren't understanding each other.


Oh I understand you perfectly, but it is indeed very clear you're not understanding me. Maybe you don't WANT to understand me?

Even still, you could at least try to answer my  questions, instead of constantly ignoring them.


As for why I like ME2, I can't state any reason you would agree with. This alone comes down to preferrence.


Preferences or opinions are usually based on reasons. If you have no reason to like ME2, than why do you like it?


For example, my reason for disliking Mass Effect 2 is because of the status-quo of the plot. This I can further explain by pointing out that no significant progression is made towards solving the reaper threat within the ME2 story. The ME2 story also does not flesh-out any previously established plot-hooks, instead it introduces a whole arsenal of new plot-hooks, that either get solved and wrapped-up within the game it self (the Collectors), or they just get dropped never to be mentioned again (Lazarus). it really does make ME2 feel like a filler-arc that sidelines the previously established plots and direction from ME1.

The plot of ME1 being: "The reapers want to harvest us, but they are trapped in darkspace. Sovereign tries to open the gate to dark-space, while Shepard tries to stop him."

And the direction of ME1 being: "Shepard succesfully stopped Sovereign and the reapers are again trapped in darkspace, yet one day the reapers might return and so Shepard has to find a solution to the reaper thread and make sure we're prepared".

^
See this is how  you do it Massively. Now it's your turn to lay down the plot and direction of ME2, and then explain how you think ME3 does not follow up on this plot and direction.

#512
Sumthing

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in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 Now it's about art huh?Here's mine

Image IPB

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB


That isn't art.

And why is that?


Because it isn't aesthetically pleasing.

I find it to be inspiring.


It isn't inspiring either. What does it inspire you to do?

#513
in it for the lolz

in it for the lolz
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mass perfection wrote...

Image IPB
Is this inspiring?


No, but this is: 
 Image IPB

#514
mass perfection

mass perfection
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Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 Now it's about art huh?Here's mine

Image IPB

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB


That isn't art.

And why is that?


Because it isn't aesthetically pleasing.

I find it to be inspiring.


It isn't inspiring either. What does it inspire you to do?

To get in a mech suit and shoot some alien scum!

#515
in it for the lolz

in it for the lolz
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Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 Now it's about art huh?Here's mine

Image IPB

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB


That isn't art.

And why is that?


Because it isn't aesthetically pleasing.

I find it to be inspiring.


It isn't inspiring either. What does it inspire you to do?

To play Warhammer 40,000. What else!Image IPB

#516
mass perfection

mass perfection
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https://encrypted-tb...U_8Au5ua-nuvreg

#517
mass perfection

mass perfection
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in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 Now it's about art huh?Here's mine

Image IPB

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB


That isn't art.

And why is that?


Because it isn't aesthetically pleasing.

I find it to be inspiring.


It isn't inspiring either. What does it inspire you to do?

To play Warhammer 40,000. What else!Image IPB

You act like we just have laying around waiting for us to play it when we see an epic piece of art.

#518
The Heretic of Time

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in it for the lolz wrote...

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB



B*tch please:

Image IPB

#519
mass perfection

mass perfection
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****,please!https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTD_F_fmmfqLEzMWUvlXpcfifdq8cVwje1MkCM5An0JtzxYXEZ8

#520
in it for the lolz

in it for the lolz
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mass perfection wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 Now it's about art huh?Here's mine

Image IPB

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB


That isn't art.

And why is that?


Because it isn't aesthetically pleasing.

I find it to be inspiring.


It isn't inspiring either. What does it inspire you to do?

To play Warhammer 40,000. What else!Image IPB

You act like we just have laying around waiting for us to play it when we see an epic piece of art.

Lucky for me I have some laying around. And I don't have to play that Xenos loving game called Derp Effect.


FOR THE EMPEROR!!!

#521
mass perfection

mass perfection
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in it for the lolz wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 Now it's about art huh?Here's mine

Image IPB

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB


That isn't art.

And why is that?


Because it isn't aesthetically pleasing.

I find it to be inspiring.


It isn't inspiring either. What does it inspire you to do?

To play Warhammer 40,000. What else!Image IPB

You act like we just have laying around waiting for us to play it when we see an epic piece of art.

Lucky for me I have some laying around. And I don't have to play that Xenos loving game called Derp Effect.


FOR THE EMPEROR!!!

I kill xenos on sight!


FOR THE ILLUSIVE MAN!!!

#522
Sumthing

Sumthing
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in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 Now it's about art huh?Here's mine

Image IPB

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB


That isn't art.

And why is that?


Because it isn't aesthetically pleasing.

I find it to be inspiring.


It isn't inspiring either. What does it inspire you to do?

To play Warhammer 40,000. What else!Image IPB


I think you are a bit obsessed with Warhammer 40000.

#523
mass perfection

mass perfection
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Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

Sumthing wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 Now it's about art huh?Here's mine

Image IPB

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB


That isn't art.

And why is that?


Because it isn't aesthetically pleasing.

I find it to be inspiring.


It isn't inspiring either. What does it inspire you to do?

To play Warhammer 40,000. What else!Image IPB


I think you are a bit obsessed with Warhammer 40000.

Are obsessed?

#524
in it for the lolz

in it for the lolz
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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

in it for the lolz wrote...

You call that art?

Now this is art:
Image IPB



B*tch please:

Image IPB

Image IPB 
b*tch plz!

#525
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

Grand Admiral Cheesecake
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ME2 was fun enough for me to look past the oodles of plot stupidity.

ME3 sadly was not.