1093 réponses à ce sujet

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

By the Dark Gods snip your quotes people!

[chemiclord]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Honestly, the Dark Energy idea was one of the things I was thinking. That's really the basis of what I'm saying.

Well, as I touched on, even IF it had been reworked and cleaned up, you STILL have the problem that it's featured in a mission that IS optional to complete.  If it's going to be the lead-in to your next game, it really HAS to be mandatory for completion (though it need not be the driving element within that mandatory experience), otherwise you run the high risk of players not having any idea why THIS is suddenly important.

THAT is the problem with ME2.  It really doesn't sufficiently set up ANYTHING for the next game.

Modifié par chemiclord, 14 juillet 2013 - 03:43 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...



B*tch please:

Titan snip

How did it get behind our lines... It must of taken some kind of tactical geniu----


CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 14 juillet 2013 - 03:45 .

[RaenImrahl]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

By the Dark Gods snip your quotes people!

Quote pyramid builders have been banned.  I'll keep this thread open for now... but please stay on topic, do not post off-topic image spam, and heed the Admiral's wise words, above.

RI

[Excella Gionne]

If Shepard didn't die, I never would have met all of my 12 awesome buddies! Including in the 12 are Garrus and Tali!

[MassivelyEffective0730]

chemiclord wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Honestly, the Dark Energy idea was one of the things I was thinking. That's really the basis of what I'm saying.

Well, as I touched on, even IF it had been reworked and cleaned up, you STILL have the problem that it's featured in a mission that IS optional to complete.  If it's going to be the lead-in to your next game, it really HAS to be mandatory for completion (though it need not be the driving element within that mandatory experience), otherwise you run the high risk of players not having any idea why THIS is suddenly important.

That's where the flaw with the writing comes in for ME2. It has it's point for the next way to go, but it keeps it a bit out of the limelight. That and the Human Reaper and how humans were supposed to be special for the cycle. I think those were going to be the foundations for the ME3 that followed. And I know Drew said that plot lines were slashed and rewritten during the planning phase for the next game, but I think they were a bit more than confident that the DE plot was what they were going to end up with in the next game. They sowed the seeds and failed to harvest them, so to speak. 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Hmm I suppose I really should go into a bit more detail about all of this.

When I was playing ME2 I was having a boatload of fun, it wasn't pretentious, it didn't keep beating me over the head with the "THIS IS SUPER SAD! FEEL BAD! I'M SUPER CEREAL GUYS!" stick.

Combine that fun with the fact that it was only the midpoint in the trilogy and you have the perfect combination that makes in very easy to ignore ME2's glaring flaws.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Hmm I suppose I really should go into a bit more detail about all of this.

When I was playing ME2 I was having a boatload of fun, it wasn't pretentious, it didn't keep beating me over the head with the "THIS IS SUPER SAD! FEEL BAD! I'M SUPER CEREAL GUYS!" stick.

Combine that fun with the fact that it was only the midpoint in the trilogy and you have the perfect combination that makes in very easy to ignore ME2's glaring flaws.

Sounds about right to me.

[ShepnTali]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Hmm I suppose I really should go into a bit more detail about all of this.

When I was playing ME2 I was having a boatload of fun, it wasn't pretentious, it didn't keep beating me over the head with the "THIS IS SUPER SAD! FEEL BAD! I'M SUPER CEREAL GUYS!" stick.

Combine that fun with the fact that it was only the midpoint in the trilogy and you have the perfect combination that makes in very easy to ignore ME2's glaring flaws.

Yeah, I just finished Shadow Broker again, and the whole ME2 ride felt good again. I personally love the minisodes vibe of it all. 

[Armass81]

johnnythao89 wrote...

If Shepard didn't die, I never would have met all of my 12 awesome buddies! Including in the 12 are Garrus and Tali!

You can do that without dying, and in a game that doesnt have to be ME2, like a side game called ME: Deadly Dozen or something.

[ShepnTali]

^ I would love to have seen multiple side games with that kind of content.

[MegaSovereign]

Armass81 wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

If Shepard didn't die, I never would have met all of my 12 awesome buddies! Including in the 12 are Garrus and Tali!

You can do that without dying, and in a game that doesnt have to be ME2, like a side game called ME: Deadly Dozen or something.

The Avengers: Mass Effect edition.

Ending is Shepard and company eating shawarma.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Armass81 wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

If Shepard didn't die, I never would have met all of my 12 awesome buddies! Including in the 12 are Garrus and Tali!

You can do that without dying, and in a game that doesnt have to be ME2, like a side game called ME: Deadly Dozen or something.

Then I couldn't do this!






Or this!







My Shepard considers his death the greatest thing that's ever happened to him.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 14 juillet 2013 - 04:15 .

[Excella Gionne]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

If Shepard didn't die, I never would have met all of my 12 awesome buddies! Including in the 12 are Garrus and Tali!

You can do that without dying, and in a game that doesnt have to be ME2, like a side game called ME: Deadly Dozen or something.

The Avengers: Mass Effect edition.

Ending is Shepard and company eating shawarma.

Hahaha! Totally! And Grunt ate everything! :'( But still a better ending to Mass Effect 2 than just appearing in the Normany.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

If Shepard didn't die, I never would have met all of my 12 awesome buddies! Including in the 12 are Garrus and Tali!

You can do that without dying, and in a game that doesnt have to be ME2, like a side game called ME: Deadly Dozen or something.

The Avengers: Mass Effect edition.

Ending is Shepard and company eating shawarma.

Best. Idea. Ever.

[Excella Gionne]

Biggest flaw in the ME trilogy ---- Shepard never eats. He/She must be bones!

[Armass81]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Armass81 wrote...

johnnythao89 wrote...

If Shepard didn't die, I never would have met all of my 12 awesome buddies! Including in the 12 are Garrus and Tali!

You can do that without dying, and in a game that doesnt have to be ME2, like a side game called ME: Deadly Dozen or something.

Then I couldn't do this!






Or this!







My Shepard considers his death the greatest thing that's ever happened to him.

Yes you could. Meeting those characters didnt require you dying, there are other, better ways it could have been handled. Without death.

Modifié par Armass81, 14 juillet 2013 - 04:25 .

[AlexMBrennan]

The plot would have been exactly the same if Shepard had just been in a coma for a long time, except for the "I thought you died" jokes.

[spirosz]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

*snip*
My Shepard considers his death the greatest thing that's ever happened to him.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

spirosz wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

*snip*
My Shepard considers his death the greatest thing that's ever happened to him.

Well, his death gave him reason to live. His death gave him reason to love and care. His death gave him something to believe in.

And he'd die for her again.

But he doesn't have too.

[spirosz]

Technically, those can all still happen without the death

[MassivelyEffective0730]

spirosz wrote...

Technically, those can all still happen without the death

Yeah. But I think it adds a nice poignancy to the words, and to their relationship.

[Armass81]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Technically, those can all still happen without the death

Yeah. But I think it adds a nice poignancy to the words, and to their relationship.

Couple of words vs a decently and correctly written plot transition that makes sense...hmmm thats a toughie...

I think id go with the plot.

Modifié par Armass81, 14 juillet 2013 - 05:03 .

[chemiclord]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Hmm I suppose I really should go into a bit more detail about all of this.

When I was playing ME2 I was having a boatload of fun, it wasn't pretentious, it didn't keep beating me over the head with the "THIS IS SUPER SAD! FEEL BAD! I'M SUPER CEREAL GUYS!" stick.

Combine that fun with the fact that it was only the midpoint in the trilogy and you have the perfect combination that makes in very easy to ignore ME2's glaring flaws.

Well, that ties into a point I made way back in the beginning.  People who are emotionally satisfied are willing to overlook flaws... which is in this case a rather bit of a problem, considering many of those flaws that are overlooked contribute fairly heavily to the dissatisfaction of ME3.

[Interloper]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

 

To point out a few of ME2's major flaws story-wise:

So tell me people, how is it possible to hate ME3 yet love ME2 at the same time? How can you point out all the flaws in ME3 yet be absolutely blind to the flaws of ME2? I would very much like to know that.

 There is a brief but potent answer to this, ME2 fleshed out a whole array of much better side missions and side stories which were brilliant and engaging. For every flaw in the main plot, there was another squad members loyalty mission ready in the wings to efface it. If you didn't like Thane's mission, you could do Samara's, if you didn't like Samara's, you could do Jack's. Moreover, each mission was so well done, Grunt's mission is an outright gladiatorial combat, Samara's is an intriguing detective investigation, Mordin's is an exploration of the genophage and a tragedy, and Jacob's is a classic dilemma about morality and isolation. Everyone knows the main plot in ME2 blows, but the characters are so well realised no one really cares. In ME3, that same level of detail was never found in any squad member, or any personality really. Even old characters were waiting in the backwings to let the ridiculous mainplot prance about on the main stage, all filled with mundane missions and terrible auto-dialogue. 

 If you really want to see the difference, play Samara's mission and tell me how many choices you get in how to approach Morinth and use the paragon/renegade option. Now go play the Mars mission and the Thesia mission in ME3 and see how constricted and linear that is and how the ending is constantly the same. 

 If that's not evidence enough, then how about this final point, in ME3, the Spacechild forces you to die for no real reason whatsever(well done Shepard, walking straight into that inferno seems like a great idea!) In ME2 however, you might either die because you ignored your squadmates, OR after the game has been finished, you can die by attempting to have sex with Morinth. That in itself is why ME2 prevails.

Modifié par Interloper, 14 juillet 2013 - 05:16 .