1093 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Mammoth]

It might have been easier to give justifications for so many characters if the Shadow Broker was made to be more important. Some, like Samara and Thane, would be more difficult to tie to the Collectors.

[David7204]

No. The quality of a character is not measured by their involvement in the plot. Nearly all friendly side characters in all stories in existence could be removed or integrated into the protagonist and the story would still function.

In addition, the more involvement a character has in a story, the less freedom the player has to treat them as they choose. So you have to choose what you support. Either characters with heavy involvement in the plot (although they might not be able to react 'realistically' to the players choices and dialogue,) or characters that they player can kill or dismiss or ****** off and have them leave (although they likely won't react very well to the events of the story or to each other.)

Modifié par David7204, 15 juillet 2013 - 12:27 .

[voteDC]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...


To be honest, the ME2 ending (without having played Arrival) did leave me with the impression that the reapers were slowly but surely approaching the galaxy by manual FTL flight. So you can't completely blame Arrival, ME2 itself was already guilty of f*cking up the plot.

This is something that puzzles me.

We know that you can't fly for extended periods in FTL because you will need to stop and discharge your drive-core.

Given that there are no planets in dark space, how were the Reapers managing to fly at FTL for so long?

[David7204]

No, we know that ships of the various races need to discharge regularly. That does not cover Reapers.

Modifié par David7204, 15 juillet 2013 - 12:26 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

David7204 wrote...

No. The quality of a character is not measured by their involvement in the plot. Nearly all friendly side characters in all stories in existence could be removed or integrated into the protagonist and the story would still function.

In addition, the more involvement a character has in a story, the less freedom the player has to treat them as they choose. So you have to choose what you support. Either characters with heavy involvement in the plot (although they might not be able to react 'realistically' to the players choices and dialogue, or characters that they player can kill or dismiss or ****** off and have them leave.

the problem with ME2 is that characters ARE the plot.Pretty much every mission in the game is related to a character,not the Collectors.There's no main plot in ME2

[Seboist]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

David7204 wrote...

No. The quality of a character is not measured by their involvement in the plot. Nearly all friendly side characters in all stories in existence could be removed or integrated into the protagonist and the story would still function.

In addition, the more involvement a character has in a story, the less freedom the player has to treat them as they choose. So you have to choose what you support. Either characters with heavy involvement in the plot (although they might not be able to react 'realistically' to the players choices and dialogue, or characters that they player can kill or dismiss or ****** off and have them leave.

the problem with ME2 is that characters ARE the plot.Pretty much every mission in the game is related to a character,not the Collectors.There's no main plot in ME2

Speaks volumes about how bad ME2's plot is that it's not only pointless to the overarching story but pointless in the context of itself as well.

[Mr.House]

The whole "ME2 is about the characters" is a crappy argument for it's crappy main story, more so when majority of the characters where either poorly written, horrible or half assed while also just feeling like a cutout.

[David7204]

I distinctly remember you whining once about Thane dying regardless of the player's choices. Do these characters suddenly become worthwhile whenever it's convenient for you?

Modifié par David7204, 15 juillet 2013 - 12:49 .

[Mr.House]

David7204 wrote...

I distinctly remember you whining once about Thane dying regardless of the player's choices. Do these characters suddenly become worthwhile whenever it's convenient for you?

How dare I whine when I see C&C being crapped on.

[spirosz]

spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

And now we've uncovered one of the weaknesses of video games as a storytelling medium.

You need mooks to shoot. And you need lots and lots of them. You need them early and often.

I didn't shoot any mooks in Journey, Flower, Last of Us (trololol), Shadow of the Colosuss. 

David

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Mr.House wrote...

The whole "ME2 is about the characters" is a crappy argument for it's crappy main story, more so when majority of the characters where either poorly written, horrible or half assed while also just feeling like a cutout.

I'd even say ME2 is the least of the three in the realm of characters. It relies on quantity over quality.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Mr.House wrote...

The whole "ME2 is about the characters" is a crappy argument for it's crappy main story, more so when majority of the characters where either poorly written, horrible or half assed while also just feeling like a cutout.

Well, there lies the problem: people have a tendency to disagree on the definition of crappy characters.

For those who love the ME2 cast (like myself), it's the game's saving grace, elevating it to one of my favorite games of all time.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 15 juillet 2013 - 01:16 .

[Seboist]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

The whole "ME2 is about the characters" is a crappy argument for it's crappy main story, more so when majority of the characters where either poorly written, horrible or half assed while also just feeling like a cutout.

I'd even say ME2 is the least of the three in the realm of characters. It relies on quantity over quality.

I "like" how most of the characters don't even acknowledge each others' existence ala Final Fantasy 12.

"All about the characters" indeed.

[David7204]

spirosz wrote...

spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

And now we've uncovered one of the weaknesses of video games as a storytelling medium.

You need mooks to shoot. And you need lots and lots of them. You need them early and often.

I didn't shoot any mooks in Journey, Flower, Last of Us (trololol), Shadow of the Colosuss. 

David

Journey and Flower are puzzle games, I'm guessing? I'm guessing the Last of Us gives you a choice between combat and stealth. Shadow of the Colosuss has you killing the Colossi.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

David7204 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

And now we've uncovered one of the weaknesses of video games as a storytelling medium.

You need mooks to shoot. And you need lots and lots of them. You need them early and often.

I didn't shoot any mooks in Journey, Flower, Last of Us (trololol), Shadow of the Colosuss. 

David

Journey and Flower are puzzle games, I'm guessing? I'm guessing the Last of Us gives you a choice between combat and stealth. Shadow of the Colosuss has you killing the Colossi.

Still, I wouldn't exactly call the Colossi mooks. "Lots and lots of them" certainly doesn't apply. I wouldn't compare the slow and steady pace of Shadows of the Colossus to a typical action game where in an intro level alone you take out 50+ enemies.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 15 juillet 2013 - 01:29 .

[Mr.House]

David7204 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

And now we've uncovered one of the weaknesses of video games as a storytelling medium.

You need mooks to shoot. And you need lots and lots of them. You need them early and often.

I didn't shoot any mooks in Journey, Flower, Last of Us (trololol), Shadow of the Colosuss. 

David

Journey and Flower are puzzle games, I'm guessing? I'm guessing the Last of Us gives you a choice between combat and stealth. Shadow of the Colosuss has you killing the Colossi.

Colossi are not mooks.

[David7204]

The point is that the game relies on combat to function. People criticize video games as immature for doing so, but they fail to grasp the limitations of the medium. And perhaps the advantages, as well.

How many countless posts have there been attacking any kind of focus on combat as 'pew-pew corrider shooting'? Far too many. Very foolish.

Modifié par David7204, 15 juillet 2013 - 01:35 .

[Mr.House]

David7204 wrote...

The point is that the game relies on combat to function.

That's not the same as mooks.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

David7204 wrote...

The point is that the game relies on combat to function.

What about when it doesn't? Stuff like Amnesia: The Dark Descent or Portal come to mind.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Video games are limited as a story telling medium. The writer is going to have plot critical characters. You may not like the plot critical characters, and that's just going to be tough s***. You're going to be forced to interact with them at certain points. Actually if the player character is going to be an ass to them, the player character should expect them to be short to downright nasty in their dealings with the player character depending on how nasty the player character has treated them.

Okay so some of you might want to do this with say, Liara. Liara is plot critical. Actually they even made her survival critical for the refuse ending -- she shouldn't say "the crucible didn't work" if she died. You treat her nasty. She is short with you in return, so you get the choice to order her off your ship. Will you take it? Some of you will. A plot critical character still can't leave. Maybe the writer would have her respond to you: "You'll have to discuss that with Admiral Hackett. Just stay away from me unless it is mission critical, and I will forward mission critical information to your private terminal." Hackett will refuse your request. So if you want to be able to get pissy with a plot critical character, that's how a writer can get around it. But how much dialogue did you just add? Quite a bit, and you used more resources on the disk.

The big upset is: Why wasn't the plot critical character <insert name of favorite character>?

They're going to go over to Blu-ray, but the next gen is going to be showing off fancy graphics not more content You know it and I know it.

I miss the old days. Want to read a good story? Go browse through a bookstore and find a book. Well, they're all gone now. You can't go browse. You kind of have to know what you're looking for when you go online otherwise you can't find it. I miss the analog world. I'd go into a bookstore once a month and walk out with about 10 books and that would get me through a month. That doesn't happen anymore. Bookstores had a nice smell about them, too.

[KaiserShep]

Seboist wrote...

I found it odd that there's no Praetorians in the Collector base.

I was fully expecting to run into at least a couple of them. I was disappointed that there were none at all.