Now can we all get back on-topic again? If not, than I suppose this thread should either die a slow death or get locked by one of the mods.
Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 15 juillet 2013 - 07:10 .
People hating on ME3 yet thinking ME2 is "perfect"
Débuté par
The Heretic of Time
, juil. 13 2013 08:29
#926
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 07:10
The Heretic of Time
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Thank you HellbirdIV.
Now can we all get back on-topic again? If not, than I suppose this thread should either die a slow death or get locked by one of the mods.
Now can we all get back on-topic again? If not, than I suppose this thread should either die a slow death or get locked by one of the mods.
Retour en haut
#927
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 07:15
sH0tgUn jUliA
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see your PM. Spoilers.Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...
sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
If you like squad banter you'll miss it in TW2, because you're out by yourself. However, the politics are done a hell of a lot better. You have to think. This is a real problem when playing the game and it can get frustrating for people who are not used to thinking when playing a game. There were a number of times I got lost in the mines. The game started out really slow in Flotsam and I lost interest for a while, but once I pushed past that, I made a choice of an allegiance that I didn't think I was going to make, and I was glad I did it. Great story from that point on.
Roche or Iorveth?
#928
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 07:20
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HellbirdIV wrote...
Yeah there is. Just because you don't agree that it's a good thing doesn't mean the people perpetrating the acts don't believe they are for a greater good.
The insidious thing about early 20th century racism was the notion of the White Man's Burden, that all of humanity relied on whites to progress. White men made myths about Great Zimbabwe's ruins, because they couldn't fathom that black people had built castles once upon a time. They made "scientific" studies that "proved" an inherent weakness in anyone who was not of the proper white european breed.
The idea of racial purity is that it betters society by removing deficients, making people overall smarter and stronger. See, that's kind of the thing with fascism... It works just fine. From a purely logical, statistical standpoint, fascism works great... except, we have this thing called empathy, compassion and decency. And fascism is truly incompatible with basic humanity.
Your arguments indicate you don't have much understanding of human psychology nor 20th century politics. No-one - not even Hitler - was going to arrange some 8 million murders just because he thinks Jews are icky.
"Relying on whites to progress" and slaughtering the people you're supposedly responsible for are incompatable concepts. The people who think we're responsible for this planet are not the people strip-mining and clearcutting. That's what you're suggesting.
#929
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 07:22
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And the topic has run its course, really. It was acknowledged pages ago that this happens. /topic.
Though I do find it interesting how people who make threads always want them closed by mods or to "die" when they divert from the OP's wants. Let it run its course.
Though I do find it interesting how people who make threads always want them closed by mods or to "die" when they divert from the OP's wants. Let it run its course.
Modifié par EntropicAngel, 15 juillet 2013 - 07:22 .
#930
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 07:23
Dextro Milk
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I don't dislike Mass Effect 3, 2, or 1. Well, the level designs in ME1 were terribad, but nostalgia wins me over. :3
#931
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 07:42
Argentoid
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#932
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 07:43
HellbirdIV
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EntropicAngel wrote...
"Relying on whites to progress" and slaughtering the people you're supposedly responsible for are incompatable concepts.
White supremacy is based on the notion that whites are the best people, ergo if we remove all the not-white people, only the best people remain, and that constitutes a net gain for humanity.
It's not any more idiotic than the Reaper's logic that they preserve organic life by wiping out other large chunks of organic life. In fact, what the Reapers are doing is very strictly similar to the practice of Nazzy Eugenics, removing "problem individuals" (Intelligent organics in the Reaper's case, mental deficients/'lesser' races in the Nazzy's case) in order to ensure stability and a continued existence that appeals to their sensibilities.
Going back a bit;
EntropicAngel wrote...
The point of my argument is that there IS no validity for Hitler's
actions. He wasn't slaughtering people because that would save them. The
Reapers are, or think they are.
The Reapers aren't trying to save the people they shoot with their giant laser beams. The Starbrat tries to justify the genocide by saying that they preserve the essence of species in the form of Reaper bodies, but to that I say, what about the Protheans? It's made pretty clear they didn't stick around except as specialized Husks used for slave labour.
If you do consider "preserving the species as a whole" to be a valid argument, then the same should logically apply to Hitler and any number of other, even more horrible dictators like Mao Zedong and Big Joe Stalin, who all absolutely had lofty ideas about creating something from all the devastation they wrought.
Modifié par HellbirdIV, 15 juillet 2013 - 07:50 .
#933
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 07:48
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The Reapers aren't removing them. They're retaining them in Reaper form. That's their logic, anyway.
#934
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 07:51
HellbirdIV
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EntropicAngel wrote...
The Reapers aren't removing them. They're retaining them in Reaper form.
And the Protheans?
#935
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 07:58
Argentoid
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HellbirdIV wrote...
EntropicAngel wrote...
The Reapers aren't removing them. They're retaining them in Reaper form.
And the Protheans?
They failed to make a Prothean - Reaper. Probably because of their unique "quad-strand" DNA structure.
Thus, they used them as puppets, or manual labor, or... whatever.
Modifié par Argentoid, 15 juillet 2013 - 07:59 .
#936
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:00
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They repurposed them, didn't they? If everything had gone as planned the Protheans would have remained alive as Collectors.
#937
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:01
HellbirdIV
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EntropicAngel wrote...
They repurposed them, didn't they? If everything had gone as planned the Protheans would have remained alive as Collectors.
Collectors are Prothean Husks. Nothing more. (Evidenced by Javik's flashbacks on Eden Prime).
#938
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:05
KaiserShep
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Quite a lot is removed from the Protheans' physiology to make the Collectors. Just about everything meaningful is replaced by reaper technology. They are essentially husks with the capacity to organize.
#939
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:06
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HellbirdIV wrote...
Collectors are Prothean Husks. Nothing more. (Evidenced by Javik's flashbacks on Eden Prime).
I disagreee to an extent--interestingly, ME2 is my proof. How many husks could fly space ships, could actually trade with the rest of the galaxy like the intro on Freedom's Progress tells us, were capable of some measure of intelligent thought? The husks are just screaming zombies that run at you.
#940
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:08
Mcfly616
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The Collectors we encounter in ME2 are actually more like the Keepers than actual husks. They have been genetically altered to perform certain tasks.
#941
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:09
The Night Mammoth
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I don't see why a regular human husk couldn't do all that if the Reapers wanted them to. They're capable of running massive prison camps, after all.EntropicAngel wrote...
HellbirdIV wrote...
Collectors are Prothean Husks. Nothing more. (Evidenced by Javik's flashbacks on Eden Prime).
I disagreee to an extent--interestingly, ME2 is my proof. How many husks could fly space ships, could actually trade with the rest of the galaxy like the intro on Freedom's Progress tells us, were capable of some measure of intelligent thought? The husks are just screaming zombies that run at you.
Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 15 juillet 2013 - 08:10 .
#942
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:11
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The Night Mammoth wrote...
I don't see why a regular human husk couldn't do all that if the Reapers wanted them to. They're capable of running massive prison camps, after all.
They are? I don't recall what you're talking about.
#943
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:12
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Like Mordin says, the husks and Collectors organs are replaced by tech. That doesn't stop them from carrying out instructions. It's just that those instructions are limited to what the Reapers want. The Reapers go out of their way to strip down any organ or function not suitable for their purposes. Sometimes even sloppily.. Look at Cannibals -- it's a mutated batarian with a human for an ARM. The human is stripped down to be nothing but a weapon apparatus. Any other DNA not suitable for that purpose is thrown away.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 15 juillet 2013 - 08:14 .
#944
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:14
The Night Mammoth
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The Reapers set up prison camps on Earth. EDI talks about this in one of her post-mission conversations. What do you think were operating the camps?EntropicAngel wrote...
The Night Mammoth wrote...
I don't see why a regular human husk couldn't do all that if the Reapers wanted them to. They're capable of running massive prison camps, after all.
They are? I don't recall what you're talking about.
#945
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:16
KaiserShep
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All of the reaper monsters are semisynthetic quasi-zombies. The tech used to animate what are essentially corpses can account for their ability to do anything other than killing people.
#946
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:20
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The Night Mammoth wrote...
The Reapers set up prison camps on Earth. EDI talks about this in one of her post-mission conversations. What do you think were operating the camps?
Ah, I don't recall that. But seeing as how the Reapers are in orbit over Earth (and ON it, with the destroyers) they certainly could have been in charge of it. Though I could see a Marauder perhaps operating it.
#947
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:28
The Night Mammoth
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In charge yes, but commanding and operating are different things. They command their husks to do things. I don't see why, if needed, they couldn't get a human husk to perform complex tasks.
#948
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 08:37
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Still seems iffy to me, but we don't know one way or the other.
#949
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 09:30
Guy On The Moon
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I've said this over and over again but thank you OP for bringing this on a popular scale
Mass Effect 2 by itself is an amazing game, one of my favorites.But since Mass Effect is suppose to be a trilogy, Mass Effect 2 doesn't add anything new to advancing the main storyline.
HOWEVER
After my recent playthrough of it I have seen what ME2 is good for:
History of the Different Species
The Genophage:
Talking to Mordin, doing his loyalty mission, and reading the Codex allows you to learn a TON about the Genophage, Krogan, and brings it down to a more personal level (whether you agree with the use of it or not). You learn the history behind it from the man who helped recreate it and you deal with his delimna of using it. You get to see Tuchanka and the state of the Krogan people. These things bring it down on a personal level to you as a player
The Geth & The Quarians:
First & foremost you learn that all Geth aren't even horrible; in fact it's a very, very small minority that are. Through talking with Tali, doing her loyalty mission and talking with Legion and doing his loyalty mission you learn a lot about the Quarian, their creation of the Geth, the Geth's rebellion, and why (some of them) aligned with the Reapers and hunt organics.
In this sequence it also introduces the dark energy theory, which I believe was suppose to have something to do with the ultimate ending of the trilogy
Cerberus:
They could've been irrelevant but they were already strongly introduced in the first game as more than just some side missions. They were going to be in the 2nd game either way, I guess Bioware choice to focus on them a lot more than I thought.
Protheans:
Not all of the Protheans were killed as some were repurposed to be Collectors. You also get to see what the Protheans looked like (even though they didn't even match the structures seen on Illos in the 1st game...w/e).
The Arrival DLC:
While not perfectly done, it's pretty essential to bridge the gap going into ME3. Honestly you could just play ME1, Arrival, then ME3 and you'd be perfectly fine plotwise. It answers questions why the galaxy was so unprepared and why it took so long for the Reapers to attack
HOWEVER
All of this could have been done and explained in a game with a better main plot. In all honestly, the humanoid Reaper was a joke and the theory that they harvest species to create Reapers that take the form of them is bull. The theory that Reapers might be trying to replicate reproduction was interesting but never expanded upon. All of the Reapers resemble the Leviathans
What Mass Effect 2 succeeds in doing is expanding the Mass Effect galaxy for future Mass Effect games and bringing social issues of other species on a personal level for Shepard.
A lot of things were very irrelevant, like the invention of all the dumb Merc groups, Jacob's side mission (His mission added literally nothing to Mass Effect whatsoever), and a bunch of other things I can't think of. But again, this could all be a credit to expanding the Mass Effect universe.
Mass Effect 2 by itself is an amazing game, one of my favorites.But since Mass Effect is suppose to be a trilogy, Mass Effect 2 doesn't add anything new to advancing the main storyline.
HOWEVER
After my recent playthrough of it I have seen what ME2 is good for:
History of the Different Species
The Genophage:
Talking to Mordin, doing his loyalty mission, and reading the Codex allows you to learn a TON about the Genophage, Krogan, and brings it down to a more personal level (whether you agree with the use of it or not). You learn the history behind it from the man who helped recreate it and you deal with his delimna of using it. You get to see Tuchanka and the state of the Krogan people. These things bring it down on a personal level to you as a player
The Geth & The Quarians:
First & foremost you learn that all Geth aren't even horrible; in fact it's a very, very small minority that are. Through talking with Tali, doing her loyalty mission and talking with Legion and doing his loyalty mission you learn a lot about the Quarian, their creation of the Geth, the Geth's rebellion, and why (some of them) aligned with the Reapers and hunt organics.
In this sequence it also introduces the dark energy theory, which I believe was suppose to have something to do with the ultimate ending of the trilogy
Cerberus:
They could've been irrelevant but they were already strongly introduced in the first game as more than just some side missions. They were going to be in the 2nd game either way, I guess Bioware choice to focus on them a lot more than I thought.
Protheans:
Not all of the Protheans were killed as some were repurposed to be Collectors. You also get to see what the Protheans looked like (even though they didn't even match the structures seen on Illos in the 1st game...w/e).
The Arrival DLC:
While not perfectly done, it's pretty essential to bridge the gap going into ME3. Honestly you could just play ME1, Arrival, then ME3 and you'd be perfectly fine plotwise. It answers questions why the galaxy was so unprepared and why it took so long for the Reapers to attack
HOWEVER
All of this could have been done and explained in a game with a better main plot. In all honestly, the humanoid Reaper was a joke and the theory that they harvest species to create Reapers that take the form of them is bull. The theory that Reapers might be trying to replicate reproduction was interesting but never expanded upon. All of the Reapers resemble the Leviathans
What Mass Effect 2 succeeds in doing is expanding the Mass Effect galaxy for future Mass Effect games and bringing social issues of other species on a personal level for Shepard.
A lot of things were very irrelevant, like the invention of all the dumb Merc groups, Jacob's side mission (His mission added literally nothing to Mass Effect whatsoever), and a bunch of other things I can't think of. But again, this could all be a credit to expanding the Mass Effect universe.
#950
Posté 15 juillet 2013 - 09:51
sH0tgUn jUliA
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How anyone can find anything remotely redeeming about the reapers makes my head hurt.
IMO Arrival ruined Mass Effect. It nullified the advantage that the Protheans gave us: time. The reapers would have taken another 20 years to arrive, not 6 months. But then all of a sudden they were already in the galaxy before you finished the suicide mission, or could have been. Preparation or invention of new tech could have helped.
IMO Arrival ruined Mass Effect. It nullified the advantage that the Protheans gave us: time. The reapers would have taken another 20 years to arrive, not 6 months. But then all of a sudden they were already in the galaxy before you finished the suicide mission, or could have been. Preparation or invention of new tech could have helped.
Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 15 juillet 2013 - 09:54 .
