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People hating on ME3 yet thinking ME2 is "perfect"


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#1026
Bleachrude

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BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

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There's a good amount of truth to this, but I think the final answer is a touch more complicated.

What ME2 failed to do was be significant in its own right. And by that I mean, when you finish ME2 it's difficult to say what, if anything, we managed to achieve.

However, it's always possible to give a game retroactive plot importance. This can be done by giving the player information which they were not previously aware of, to make seemingly trivial information very important.

Basically, ME2 could have done more to stand on its own, especially if so much content wasn't optional. But there was nothing stopping ME3 from finding some plot threads to latch onto.

While I harp on ME2's uselessness to the main storyline (I'm looking at you Thane), when it did give continuation of plotlines from ME1, ME3 did a more than serviceable job with it.

See both Rannoch arc (not just the big issues such as whether Tali or Legion are alive but where Daro'Xen's whole plan actually gets hinted at you from an email in ME2 AND the fact that Legion himself if you brought him along to Tali's trial mentions that the creators have always attacked if they thought they had the advantage) and the genophage arc.

I don't thinkthe collectors gave ME3 anything to work with especially once you try and figure out how such a small ship would actually be able to harvest earth....sure, it blew up the Normandy, but the Normandy is a frigate and the game itself tells you that even planetary defence towers/turrets are enough to drive them off


There's also the fact that Me2 IMO did the best job in fleshing out the ME universe than ME1. I ALSO disagree with the idea that you could get rid of Samara or Grunt or Jack et al. Removing them and making the ME1 crew do double duty simply piles on too much for the characters...

I LIKE the fact that even though Liara has the backstory about her experience being a pureblood, she is NOT ALSO the front-alien for the ardat-yashi storyline. Same thing with Grunt...even though he's a krogan and his origin is tied somewhat to the genophage, the genophage arc was never a main part of his character arc.

It makes the galaxy of ME seem more *real*/*expansive* since you actually find characters that are NOT the go-to person for every single issue relating to their race...

Modifié par Bleachrude, 15 juillet 2013 - 08:33 .


#1027
The Heretic of Time

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Guy On The Moon wrote...

I think you guys maybe confused on the dialogue circle for the entire Mass Effect series

The only thing ME3 lacked was a "middle option" and it forced you to choose renegade or paragon. This is because the middle option is actually the "Default" Shepard response. It's just a coincidence that they happen to be neutral most of the time. This was mentioned in the first game's directions. There is no middle option in ME3 because it's the end of Shepard's story, you just have to choose in this game...either or.


This is absolute nonsense. In ME1, you actually DID have a neutral response, that most of the time didn't give you any paragon or renegade points.

You could easily play a neutral Shepard in ME1 and gather very little paragon and renegade points by playing that way. In a straight-forward Paragon or Renegade playthrough, you could easily get one of the two meters maxed out by the end of the game (without using cheats of glitches). By playing neutral in ME1 both meters will never reach higher than roughly 10 or 20%.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 15 juillet 2013 - 09:08 .


#1028
Nightwriter

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LiarasShield wrote...

Maybe the reason why some of us may think me2 was perfect because it was a heroic ending where shepard conquered all odds against him or herself and actually felt like a triumph ending the thing that me3 did not give me lol.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it triumphant. The Collectors were a very weak enemy, it was difficult for me to feel much triumph in defeating them. A foe needs to create a sense of threat first.

ME2's triumph was (for me) derived from making sure all the squadmates made it through BioWare's gauntlet alive.

#1029
Mcfly616

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To say that something was "perfect" based on a "triumphant" ending....well, that's just ridiculous lol


Besides: Saving the Galaxy > Blowing up a base

#1030
ShepnTali

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I think,the illusion of being triumphant in 2 works better. I had instant satisfaction, where in 3 I had to give it a lot of time to just accept it.

#1031
Mcfly616

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Saying goodbye to people/character's we have come to care about, is a hard thing to accept.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 15 juillet 2013 - 11:23 .


#1032
ShepnTali

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Mcfly616 wrote...

Saying goodbye to people/character's we have come to care about, is a hard thing to accept.


I know :crying:

I need to get Citadel dlc, pronto.

#1033
The Heretic of Time

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Mcfly616 wrote...

To say that something was "perfect" based on a "triumphant" ending....well, that's just ridiculous lol


Besides: Saving the Galaxy > Blowing up a base


Keeping the base + ruling over the galaxy > blowing up the base + saving the galaxy. B)

#1034
Steelcan

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

To say that something was "perfect" based on a "triumphant" ending....well, that's just ridiculous lol


Besides: Saving the Galaxy > Blowing up a base


Keeping the base + ruling over the galaxy > blowing up the base + saving the galaxy. B)

Keeping the base + Destroying the Reapers = Best

#1035
The Heretic of Time

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Steelcan wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

To say that something was "perfect" based on a "triumphant" ending....well, that's just ridiculous lol


Besides: Saving the Galaxy > Blowing up a base


Keeping the base + ruling over the galaxy > blowing up the base + saving the galaxy. B)

Keeping the base + Destroying the Reapers = Best


Nah using the reapers to rule over the galaxy with an iron fist is much cooler. After all the sh*t Shepard has been through to save this dumb-ass galaxy, he deserves to rule it. Control = giving Shepard what he deserves.

But destroying the reapers is obviously the most practical and straight to the point solution, that much is true. Which is why I like Destroy too, almost equally as much as I like Renegade Control.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 16 juillet 2013 - 12:11 .


#1036
Nole

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Renegade Control > all.

#1037
The Heretic of Time

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WittingEight65 wrote...

Renegade Control > all.


After all the Shepard has been through to save this  galaxy, he deserves to rule it.

Choosing Renegade Control = giving Shepard what he deserves.

Modifié par BioWareMod01, 16 juillet 2013 - 12:43 .


#1038
Nole

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

Renegade Control > all.


After all the Shepard has been through to save this  galaxy, he deserves to rule it.

Choosing Renegade Control = giving Shepard what he deserves.


Exactly.

Modifié par BioWareMod01, 16 juillet 2013 - 12:50 .


#1039
ShepnTali

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WittingEight65 wrote...

Renegade Control > all.


My Allers mackin', renegade Goober Shepard agrees.

#1040
Mcfly616

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Low-Mid EMS Destroy: most appropriate ending to the trilogy

#1041
The Heretic of Time

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Mcfly616 wrote...

Low-Mid EMS Destroy: most appropriate ending to the trilogy


true. I actually genuinely like low-EMS Destroy. It's the only ending in the trilogy that actually deserves to be labeled "bittersweet".

#1042
wolfhowwl

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Low-Mid EMS Destroy: most appropriate ending to the trilogy


true. I actually genuinely like low-EMS Destroy. It's the only ending in the trilogy that actually deserves to be labeled "bittersweet".


Indeed.

Everyone will die but they will die knowing they did everything they could to stop the reapers. And they'll die free.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 16 juillet 2013 - 12:36 .


#1043
Mcfly616

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wolfhowwl wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Low-Mid EMS Destroy: most appropriate ending to the trilogy


true. I actually genuinely like low-EMS Destroy. It's the only ending in the trilogy that actually deserves to be labeled "bittersweet".


Indeed.

Everyone will die but they will die knowing they did everything they could to stop the reapers. And they'll die free.

wolfhowwl, that's Refuse you're quoting bud.

#1044
wolfhowwl

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Mcfly616 wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Low-Mid EMS Destroy: most appropriate ending to the trilogy


true. I actually genuinely like low-EMS Destroy. It's the only ending in the trilogy that actually deserves to be labeled "bittersweet".


Indeed.

Everyone will die but they will die knowing they did everything they could to stop the reapers. And they'll die free.

wolfhowwl, that's Refuse you're quoting bud.


I know. I just feel the line is better suited for low EMS destroy. That's all.

#1045
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

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Morocco Mole wrote...

Funny thing about Arrival is that it was the ending controversies to a more minor level. People just could not handle there not being a paragon choice that saved the batarians.


People want to save batarians...?

I...what? That doesn't make any sense....

#1046
Mcfly616

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wolfhowwl wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Low-Mid EMS Destroy: most appropriate ending to the trilogy


true. I actually genuinely like low-EMS Destroy. It's the only ending in the trilogy that actually deserves to be labeled "bittersweet".


Indeed.

Everyone will die but they will die knowing they did everything they could to stop the reapers. And they'll die free.

wolfhowwl, that's Refuse you're quoting bud.


I know. I just feel the line is better suited for low EMS destroy. That's all.

hmm maybe. But in Refuse everybody does die. In Low EMS Destroy, there's positively a high death count (some species undoubtedly will become extinct). But there's still survivors. Low EMS Destroy just puts everybody back into a galactic dark age. It hits the reset button.

#1047
wolfhowwl

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Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Funny thing about Arrival is that it was the ending controversies to a more minor level. People just could not handle there not being a paragon choice that saved the batarians.


People want to save batarians...?

I...what? That doesn't make any sense....


Why not?

People want to save Krogans too. Their history is easily just as bloody as the Batarians and it seems to be part of their very nature. Even under the "good" krogan leader Wrex we still see Urdnot thugs doing stuff like testing weapons on prisoners.

At least the average Batarian citizen has the excuse of living in a dictatorship and having no say in their government's actions.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 16 juillet 2013 - 01:21 .


#1048
Guest_Finn the Jakey_*

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wolfhowwl wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Low-Mid EMS Destroy: most appropriate ending to the trilogy


true. I actually genuinely like low-EMS Destroy. It's the only ending in the trilogy that actually deserves to be labeled "bittersweet".


Indeed.

Everyone will die but they will die knowing they did everything they could to stop the reapers. And they'll die free.

Or they'll die in pain and confusion as they're suddenly vaporised.

#1049
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

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wolfhowwl wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Funny thing about Arrival is that it was the ending controversies to a more minor level. People just could not handle there not being a paragon choice that saved the batarians.


People want to save batarians...?

I...what? That doesn't make any sense....




People want to save Krogans too. Their history is easily just as bloody as the Batarians and it seems to be part of their very nature. Even under the "good" krogan leader Wrex we still see Urdnot thugs doing stuff like testing weapons on prisoners.




That's because unlike the Batarians the Krogan have met the required amount of awesome to be worth saving. just like the Turians.

Hell in the Empire the Turians and Krogan are lucky enough to be 2nd and 3rd respectively after Hoomanity.

All the others get to share the bottom.

*Because why not?*

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 16 juillet 2013 - 02:57 .


#1050
MassivelyEffective0730

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

To say that something was "perfect" based on a "triumphant" ending....well, that's just ridiculous lol


Besides: Saving the Galaxy > Blowing up a base


Keeping the base + ruling over the galaxy > blowing up the base + saving the galaxy. B)


I disagree. That's probably my neoliberalist constructivist altruism coming out.