1093 réponses à ce sujet

[The Heretic of Time]

osbornep wrote...

Speaking as a fan of ME1, I have to admit that it's not the most smoothly plotted game. It could have been retitled "Mass Effect: A Series of MacGuffins." First you need to find the Beacon, then you need the Quarian who has the Evidence, then you need to find the Conduit, but in order to do that you need the Cypher and the Other Beacon, etc.

True. I never looked at ME1 that way, but now you mention it I can't help but agree with this.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Have you ever seen what happens when someone's parachute doesn't open? Have you ever seen what happens when someone falls from a high distance? Are you even defining gorey mess the same way as other people? 

Maybe you should Google instances of skydivers surviving impacts? Clearly, there's nothing even remotely close to a certainty of being turned into soup.

Maybe you shouldn't use the exception-to-the-rule fallacy (or make another argument towards which there is none from my end.)

"People have survived skydiving impacts. Therefore, skydiving impacts must not leave gory messes."

A google search confirms that most people in high impacts from altitude are killed. I can't say whether they're all turned into soup, but I'm sure it's not a pretty site.

Please consider that shepard fell from a height greater than any skydiver or building jumper has ever fallen from. Also consider the amount of damage the body would sustain from atmospheric reentry and the amount of thermo energy friction would generate, along with the added inertia and kinetic force of the impact.

Also consider the enviromental damage of being exposed to high levels of heat followed by rapid levels of cold from the icy planet, the ice's chemical composition, and the amount of time shepards body would have been exposed to the elements before being discovered.

But it's okay, shepard was wearing a helmet, so all that is null and void in game right?

I'm not arguing with you. In fact, I agree with you. I'm not certain what you're trying to point out to me.

[David7204]

You've deluded yourself into believing a dead person being brought back in 2013 and a dead person in an incredibly specific circumstance in 2183 should have the same ramifications. That is black and white thinking. This is already a universe where people have been 'brought back' by having computers installed in their brains. Given the above mentioned specific circumstances you continually completely ignore, Lazarus is not leaps and bounds above restarting someone's heart after an accident.

Modifié par David7204, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:33 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

You're absolutely right, Hanar. It's the BSN process. When a new game comes out, the old one suddenly becomes gold. When ME2 came out, ME1 went from a crappy shooter with a remarkably traditional Bioware story and a "cheap" squadmate choice and a difficult (to say the least) inventory and an incredibly stupid boss fight to a TRU ARR PEE GEE with wonderful characters and a "good" story. Same thing happened to ME2. It will happen to ME3 in a couple years.

The cycle cannot be broken.

Except ME1 actually did have a decent plot and is more of an RPG than the sequels.

Perhaps, but that doesn't make it better. I think the characters and the more personal tone of ME2 was superior to that of ME1. I liked how the story was told much better than ME1's, even if the story itself was incredibly weak.

That's largely what it was for me as well. ME2 was far from the most tightly told story, but the presentation, characters, and the balance between cinematics and player interaction are what made me enjoy it so much.

[tonnactus]

Mass Effect 3 is far better then 2. More customization, more and better powers,far better combat and has a story,even if a week one.
Mass Effect 2 pure crap. Pokmon in Space with no purpose. Doctor Shepard solving Daddy issues of whiny teammates.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

osbornep wrote...

Speaking as a fan of ME1, I have to admit that it's not the most smoothly plotted game. It could have been retitled "Mass Effect: A Series of MacGuffins." First you need to find the Beacon, then you need the Quarian who has the Evidence, then you need to find the Conduit, but in order to do that you need the Cypher and the Other Beacon, etc.

To be fair, this is a pretty typical Bioware convention by this point.

Call to adventure-->Insert X number of missions whose order you can choose-->end game.

DA:O and KotOR are actually the best examples of this.

In each case, the game provides you a call to arms, after which you spend the rest of the game engaging in sub-plots which have little relevance to the overarching narrative. KotOR requires that you get four star maps, which easily could have been two or three or ten, without changing the story. The developers inserted some arbitrary number to fill out how much game time they wanted the player to have. DA:O required that you obtain four armies, which easily could have been one or six, without changing the story.

Most Bioware games aren't about pushing the main plot forward at a fast pace.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:37 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

EntropicAngel wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

It's untrue for me at least.

I loved ME1 despite it's flaws when it came out, I loved ME2 despite its flaws, I loved DAO.

I still hate DA2. That's not going to change.

I still think ME3 is by far the most disappointing game I've ever played. That's not going to change.

Well, you don't seem like a sheep to me.

Why thank you! 

<3

[David7204]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Please consider that shepard fell from a height greater than any skydiver or building jumper has ever fallen from.

And? The person who falls from the highest height ever is always just that - the person who falls from the highest height ever.

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Also consider the amount of damage the body would sustain from atmospheric reentry and the amount of thermo energy friction would generate, along with the added inertia and kinetic force of the impact.

Atmosphere is not a brick wall. It's very gradual. So I imagine any 'kinetic force' would be minimal with armor. As for the heat, it would probably be substantial, but there's no reason to believe fatal. Shepard would not have attained that much speed.

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Also consider the enviromental damage of being exposed to high levels of heat followed by rapid levels of cold from the icy planet, the ice's chemical composition, and the amount of time shepards body would have been exposed to the elements before being discovered.

Miranda did say there was extensive damage. But even a dead body is a very good insulator, and even more so with armor.

Modifié par David7204, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:40 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Have you ever seen what happens when someone's parachute doesn't open? Have you ever seen what happens when someone falls from a high distance? Are you even defining gorey mess the same way as other people? 

Maybe you should Google instances of skydivers surviving impacts? Clearly, there's nothing even remotely close to a certainty of being turned into soup.

Maybe you shouldn't use the exception-to-the-rule fallacy (or make another argument towards which there is none from my end.)

"People have survived skydiving impacts. Therefore, skydiving impacts must not leave gory messes."

A google search confirms that most people in high impacts from altitude are killed. I can't say whether they're all turned into soup, but I'm sure it's not a pretty site.

Please consider that shepard fell from a height greater than any skydiver or building jumper has ever fallen from. Also consider the amount of damage the body would sustain from atmospheric reentry and the amount of thermo energy friction would generate, along with the added inertia and kinetic force of the impact.

Also consider the enviromental damage of being exposed to high levels of heat followed by rapid levels of cold from the icy planet, the ice's chemical composition, and the amount of time shepards body would have been exposed to the elements before being discovered.

But it's okay, shepard was wearing a helmet, so all that is null and void in game right?

I'm not arguing with you. In fact, I agree with you. I'm not certain what you're trying to point out to me.

Pointing it out to david, and expanding on your point to hep my own. Sorry I didn't clarify that.

[dreamgazer]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

osbornep wrote...

Speaking as a fan of ME1, I have to admit that it's not the most smoothly plotted game. It could have been retitled "Mass Effect: A Series of MacGuffins." First you need to find the Beacon, then you need the Quarian who has the Evidence, then you need to find the Conduit, but in order to do that you need the Cypher and the Other Beacon, etc.

True. I never looked at ME1 that way, but now you mention it I can't help but agree with this.

Yep, though those aren't really "MacGuffins". Plenty of easy contrivances, though, and I always get a kick out of how frequently the cipher gets a pass.

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

You've deluded yourself into believing a dead person being brought back in 2013 and a dead person in an incredibly specific circumstance in 2183 should have the same ramifications.

Why would it NOT have the same ramifications? In both universes (ours and Mass Effect's) the act of resurrecting the death has NEVER been done before. What makes Mass Effect's universe so different from ours aside from the fact that they have more advanced tech, and YET even THEY didn't manage to resurrect the dead up until this point. And for some reason, they never even try again after Shepard's resurrection. You'd think that after Cerberus bringing Shepard back, it would at the very least spark the curiosity of a lot of people (such as corporate CEO's, investers and politicians).

Lazarus is not leaps and bounds above restarting someone's heart after an accident.

YES IT IS leaps and bounds above restarting someone heart!  How can you even compare bringing back someone from nothing more than meat and tubes to simply reanimating someone's heart?

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:40 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

dreamgazer wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

osbornep wrote...

Speaking as a fan of ME1, I have to admit that it's not the most smoothly plotted game. It could have been retitled "Mass Effect: A Series of MacGuffins." First you need to find the Beacon, then you need the Quarian who has the Evidence, then you need to find the Conduit, but in order to do that you need the Cypher and the Other Beacon, etc.

True. I never looked at ME1 that way, but now you mention it I can't help but agree with this.

Yep, though those aren't really "MacGuffins". Plenty of easy contrivances, though, and I always get a kick out of how frequently the cipher gets a pass.

It's been a while since I hit up ME1. Mind reminding me the issue of the Cipher?

[rohanks]

tonnactus wrote...

Mass Effect 3 is far better then 2. More customization, more and better powers,far better combat and has a story,even if a week one.
Mass Effect 2 pure crap. Pokmon in Space with no purpose. Doctor Shepard solving Daddy issues of whiny teammates.

week is spelled w-e-a-k.

And while you're learning to spell, how about putting together a coherent argument?

Modifié par rohanks, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:41 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

David7204 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Please consider that shepard fell from a height greater than any skydiver or building jumper has ever fallen from.

And? The person who falls from the highest height ever is always just that - the person who falls from the highest height ever.

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Also consider the amount of damage the body would sustain from atmospheric reentry and the amount of thermo energy friction would generate, along with the added inertia and kinetic force of the impact.

Atmosphere is not a brick wall. It's very gradual. So I imagine any 'kinetic force' would be minimal with armor. As for the heat, it would probably be substantial, but there's no reason to believe fatal. Shepard would not have attained that much speed.

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Also consider the enviromental damage of being exposed to high levels of heat followed by rapid levels of cold from the icy planet, the ice's chemical composition, and the amount of time shepards body would have been exposed to the elements before being discovered.

Miranda did say there was extensive damage. But even a dead body is a very good insulator, and even more so with armor.

So we're just going to discount the amount of force impacting the ground from space would cause to the suit than? or the damage ice causes to the liquid inside a persons body? You know, frostbite from being in - 22 degree celsius weather, not to mention the air being composed of methane and ammonia, not good things you want seeping into your body and forming ice crystals.

[David7204]

They can grow entire limbs from scratch. They can clone organs. They can integrate significant computers into the human brain, and do. Cloning is fairly commonplace, given how casually Shepard asks Jacob about it in the intro of ME 1. And yet again, you've completely failed to distinguish Lazarus from a generalized case of 'bringing back the dead.' It's not a magic wand to heal grandma. It's a very specific circumstance, much like, say, restarting the heart of a skier in very cold temperatures.

[tonnactus]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...
it introduces characters that shouldn't be introduced

Exactly. Boring over the top superheroes alike(that suck in the game) with daddy issues. And then,the player not even knows the purpose of any character until the end. And Thane had actually no purpose at all in the suicide mission or before.

Modifié par tonnactus, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:48 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

EntropicAngel wrote...

On the topic of the different games, though...I enjoyed them all. I loved ME3, one of the few. I loved the raw emotion they put into the game--partly because I was never able to role-play in the series thus didn't lament any lack of "RPG mechanics."

I think I'd put ME2 as my favorite, though, because it feels a lot...closer to home. It isn't this gigantic plot like ME1 and 3.

If I were to chalk it up to a single issue with each game:

ME1 had the most coherent storyline (though it still had issues).
ME2 had the most enjoyable/memorable cast.
And ME3 had the most emotional/affecting moments in the series, ignoring the ending.

That's how I look at it at least.

[tonnactus]

rohanks wrote...

And while you're learning to spell, how about putting together a coherent argument?

Maybe its to much for your little brain, but english is a foreign language for some people.  And it was just a mistype anyway.

Modifié par tonnactus, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:46 .

[Erez Kristal]

Shepard suit is better than the ironman suit, we have no idea of what the suit capabilities are.
there is too much guessing here and not enough facts.
The fact is enough of shepard survived for him to be revived. the hard part was keeping his brain functioning and memories intact. the rest of the body has no importance.

You can compare an armorless man passing through the athmosphere to a man equiped with one of the galaxy best suits of armor.

[David7204]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So we're just going to discount the amount of force impacting the ground from space would cause to the suit than? or the damage ice causes to the liquid inside a persons body? You know, frostbite from being in - 22 degree celsius weather, not to mention the air being composed of methane and ammonia, not good things you want seeping into your body and forming ice crystals.

See, you say 'from space' as if that makes a difference. At Shepard's speed, terminal velocity is terminal velocity. It really does not matter how far you've fallen from. Yes, there no doubt be significant damage. (And indeed there was.) But nothing that I see as beyond repair in 2183 by Cerberus.

[rohanks]

[quote]tonnactus wrote...

[quote]IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...
 [/quote]it introduces characters that shouldn't be introduced
[/quote]

Exactly. Boring over the top superheroes alike(that suck in the game) with daddy issues. And then,the player not even knows the purpose of any character until the end. And Thane had actually no purpose at all in the suicide mission or before.

[/quote]

No, not his pointless assertion. A coherent argument.

Modifié par rohanks, 13 juillet 2013 - 09:47 .