33 réponses à ce sujet

[NRieh]

First, I should say that I really-really enjoyed the 'Asunder' novel.  I honestly loved it.
I'm saying it just to be clear - I'm not nitpicking, I'm curious.
What bothers me, is that I'm confused about how long did it take. 

They were apparantely leaving the White Spire in the  (early-middle?) autumn, a lot of things hint at that - an ice crust on the bowl of water in Evangeline's room,  talks about possible early snows,  bad weather.

Then they spent some undefined time in badlands and Adamant.

And on their return we see them having a rest 'inside an old hay barn, half falling apart with the field
overgrown with lavender'. Scene itself  was beautiful and very vivid. I just loved the way it was written. The problem here, is that from what I know lavender usually blooms in June-July, while the very ending talks about 'winter storms' again. 

My first impresion was that they did leave the tower early autumn, and Andoral's Reach gathering happend in winter (which is something like 3-4 month total). But...blooming lavender fields do not make sense this way.  
So, it's either the journey really took longer, than I thought, or we simply need to overlook a minor botanical issue with Everblooming Orlesian Lavender. 

Thoughts?

  

[Azaron Nightblade]

Nrieh wrote...
Everblooming Orlesian Lavender. 

Thoughts?

  

Tranquil grow it with their mojo.
Bet it's Orlais' number one export product, along with wine. :happy:

[BioFan (Official)]

They happen to travel a distance in the book as well, it could be possible that they change altitude and that weather patterns may differ in the regions within Orlais.

It is also entirely possible that Orleasian lavender is a late fall/winder blooming plant. At the same time, the weather in Orlais probably differes from other regions, so we don't know what each season is like.

For example, I live in Texas, it's 80-110 for 75% of the year. We pretty much just have summer, and our winter is more like most climate's fall. Whereas the weather is entirely different in many other regions of the US.

[Azaron Nightblade]

Filament wrote...
Umm... I'm not sure you meant that the way I took it...

It works either way.
Tranquil mojo is a powerful thing. 

Modifié par Azaron Nightblade, 15 juillet 2013 - 09:56 .

[NRieh]

It is also entirely possible that Orleasian lavender is a late fall/winder blooming plant. At the same time, the weather in Orlais probably differes from other regions, so we don't know what each season is like.

Since Orlais is somewhat 'french', I think it's safe to assume that it does not belong to tropical region.

[Airdeen]

Nrieh wrote...

It is also entirely possible that Orleasian lavender is a late fall/winder blooming plant. At the same time, the weather in Orlais probably differes from other regions, so we don't know what each season is like.

Since Orlais is somewhat 'french', I think it's safe to assume that it does not belong to tropical region.

Assuming they took inspiration from France's climate as well as the other things, even through France isn't tropical it's also not particularly cold either, at least not in the south. So it's plausible that the lavender season could collide with cold weather coming in earlier than normal. Weather is a strange beast, it doesn't always follow the normal pattern.

[Ieldra]

The most plausible explanation is that the story takes place between mid autumn and winter and that the appearance of the blooming lavender is a mistake. There are some rather beautiful fall-blooming plants that could be substituted...

.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 juillet 2013 - 12:02 .

[BioFan (Official)]

Liskat wrote...

Nrieh wrote...

It is also entirely possible that Orleasian lavender is a late fall/winder blooming plant. At the same time, the weather in Orlais probably differes from other regions, so we don't know what each season is like.

Since Orlais is somewhat 'french', I think it's safe to assume that it does not belong to tropical region.

Assuming they took inspiration from France's climate as well as the other things, even through France isn't tropical it's also not particularly cold either, at least not in the south. So it's plausible that the lavender season could collide with cold weather coming in earlier than normal. Weather is a strange beast, it doesn't always follow the normal pattern.

There are 8760 hours in a year, making roughly 4380 during daytime

[Airdeen]

Ericander77 wrote...

Liskat wrote...

Nrieh wrote...

It is also entirely possible that Orleasian lavender is a late fall/winder blooming plant. At the same time, the weather in Orlais probably differes from other regions, so we don't know what each season is like.

Since Orlais is somewhat 'french', I think it's safe to assume that it does not belong to tropical region.

Assuming they took inspiration from France's climate as well as the other things, even through France isn't tropical it's also not particularly cold either, at least not in the south. So it's plausible that the lavender season could collide with cold weather coming in earlier than normal. Weather is a strange beast, it doesn't always follow the normal pattern.

There are 8760 hours in a year, making roughly 4380 during daytime

Where did you come across that map? Would be interesting to see one for my country.

[berelinde]

That doesn't say that the field was blooming. Lavender is a lot like rosemary. A hard freeze will kill it, but in a protected area like a valley, it could winter over without the leaves dying.

[NRieh]

That doesn't say that the field was blooming.

David Gaider wrote:

Now they were camping inside an old hay barn, half falling apart with the field overgrown with lavender. There was purple everywhere he looked, flowers gently swaying in the evening’s breeze along with a scent that was both pleasant and somehow too sweet.

Now, that IS a blooming field, isn't it?

And here's a small description from the beginning: 

It rained the first night, a bitterly cold downpour that kept the group
huddling in their tents. The next morning there was a thin layer of ice covering
everything, though it didn’t last long into the day. Regardless, a chill
permeated the air, and, combined with a sky of hazy grey clouds, told them the
weather would be decidedly foul. By the time they returned from the Western
Approach, there could very well be snow on the ground.

Modifié par Nrieh, 15 juillet 2013 - 03:33 .

[berelinde]

Nrieh wrote...

That doesn't say that the field was blooming.

David Gaider wrote:

Now they were camping inside an old hay barn, half falling apart with the field overgrown with lavender. There was purple everywhere he looked, flowers gently swaying in the evening’s breeze along with a scent that was both pleasant and somehow too sweet.

Now, that IS a blooming field, isn't it?

And here's a small description from the beginning: 

It rained the first night, a bitterly cold downpour that kept the group
huddling in their tents. The next morning there was a thin layer of ice covering
everything, though it didn’t last long into the day. Regardless, a chill
permeated the air, and, combined with a sky of hazy grey clouds, told them the
weather would be decidedly foul. By the time they returned from the Western
Approach, there could very well be snow on the ground.

Ah, the initial quote didn't include the part about the purple flowers, and I don't have a copy of Asunder at work to look it up.

It's probably best to chalk it up as an "oops" moment and move on. I know that some people are really focused and detail oriented, and things like typos or other small errors stand out like a 1000-watt strobe light, but it's possible that DG was going for tone rather than 100% horticultural accuracy. It does sound very picturesque.

True story: I have a friend who served as a juror where the murder suspect's key defense witness was discredited because the witness reported that the defendant loved gardening and was always outside tending the tomato plants. The prosecution pointed out that the defendant moved into the apartment in October and moved out in April, so those must have been some very hardy tomatoes.

[Tootles FTW]

Mind you, I haven't read the book in awhile but from what I gather:

I would think the beginning of the novel takes place in the early part of the year (aka our January-February) when it is still cold. Their journey takes a couple months and they travel back nearer to Spring (March-April) for the lavendar scene. Stuff goes down at the Spire throughout Summer, the revolution begins, and Winter is approaching near the end.

[Magdalena11]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The most plausible explanation is that the story takes place between mid autumn and winter and that the appearance of the blooming lavender is a mistake. There are some rather beautiful fall-blooming plants that could be substituted...

.

What kind of plant is this?  The flowers look a bit like irises but the leaves are wrong.

Regarding the late-blooming lavender, while the plant may winter over with leaves, the flowers won't be there.  It's possible that since Orlais is only loosely French it doesn't necessarily have to have the same climate pattern at all.  It is also possible that the plant they know as lavender isn't the same one as ours.  It's also possible that David Gaider isn't a gardener.  I'm willing to suspend my disbelief for the sake of enjoyment of the story.

[R2s Muse]

Tootles FTW wrote...

Mind you, I haven't read the book in awhile but from what I gather:

I would think the beginning of the novel takes place in the early part of the year (aka our January-February) when it is still cold. Their journey takes a couple months and they travel back nearer to Spring (March-April) for the lavendar scene. Stuff goes down at the Spire throughout Summer, the revolution begins, and Winter is approaching near the end.

One small problem with this, though, is that it makes a point of saying first snow fall happens on the day Pharamond is going to be made tranquil again. So, events at the Spire sounds like they're in winter, just like the scenes at Andoral's Reach, where they're having light snow.  Unless their travel to the keep took all summer and fall. But, IIRC, they specifically call it autumn at the beginning of the book (actually "late autumn chill", p. 101).

I might have to go with berelinde on an 'oops' explanation. Esp since several of the timing cues in the book have inconsistencies, like all the 'one year ago' references to Anders & Kirkwall when World of Thedas puts (at least most of) the events of the book in 9:40. WoT lists the unrest with the Duke beginning in 9:38, but discovery of tranquility cure in 9:40. Who knows, maybe the book begins in autumn 9:38 (i.e. a year after Act 3), and they don't get out of Adamant Fortress until 9:40.

Modifié par R2s Muse, 15 juillet 2013 - 05:42 .

[NRieh]

I might have to go with berelinde on an 'oops' explanation.

As I said - I'm fine with 'ooops' explaination, I'm not nitpicking, because I loved the novel, as well as this very scene.

There still was a chance that I misunderstood something, though. Like travelling to Adamant and back again took from late autumn to late spring\\early summer, while Andoral's Reach summit happened next winter.

[nightscrawl]

Just as a reminder for the discussion: Thedas is in the southern hemisphere, so the temperature ranges would be the opposite of real-world France, with it getting warmer in the north and colder in the south.




- EDIT -

OK, so I had originally posted these and will post again. The Abyssal Reach is southwest of Orlais, and is also on the same latitude as Ferelden, which we know has a cold climate.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 15 juillet 2013 - 06:32 .

[berelinde]

That whole Thedosian geography thing confuses me. I'm perfectly OK with the idea that it gets colder as you go south, but if that were the case, I would expect the seasons to be reversed, with autumn happening in April. But Thedas doesn't use English month names, so trying to line them up like "Satinalia = December solstice" is pure silliness on my part. My mind boggles with disappointing ease.

[R2s Muse]

berelinde wrote...

That whole Thedosian geography thing confuses me. I'm perfectly OK with the idea that it gets colder as you go south, but if that were the case, I would expect the seasons to be reversed, with autumn happening in April. But Thedas doesn't use English month names, so trying to line them up like "Satinalia = December solstice" is pure silliness on my part. My mind boggles with disappointing ease.

But in some sense it doesn't matter what the month names are, though, right? Since all it mentions are seasons, and presumably their march is in the same order (i.e. winter to spring to summer to autum to winter).

That being said, the geography still doesn't really help because Adamant Fortress and the rift are south of Val Royeaux (they're  just off the bottom of nightscrawl's map).

[Renwillow]

While I haven't read Asunder and am unclear of the timeline, I would have to concur that the lavender blooming was probably just a mistake. 

I live in Washington state (which is one of the best places in the US for growing lavender because of the mild weather), and I actually grow the plant, so I can speak with some experience.  Lavender can survive mild winters and and ice storm or two, but it won't bloom in the cold.  You might see lavender flowers as early as May (June is more likely, though), and they regularly bloom through September (you might get lucky and have a few stragglers go all the way into October).  

So, unless that scene in Asunder happened sometime between mid or late May through early October, think of it as artistic license.

[berelinde]

R2s Muse wrote...
But in some sense it doesn't matter what the month names are, though, right? Since all it mentions are seasons, and presumably their march is in the same order (i.e. winter to spring to summer to autum to winter).

Yup. That's exactly what I meant when I said that my brain has trouble processing this kind of thing. It's my fault, not the writers'.

That being said, the geography still doesn't really help because Adamant Fortress and the rift are south of Val Royeaux (they're  just off the bottom of nightscrawl's map).

Meaning that lavender should die off even earlier? Yeah, that's the impression I got. The Adamant Fortress sounded semi-arctic, between the blighted landscape and the biting winds.

[nightscrawl]

berelinde wrote...

That whole Thedosian geography thing confuses me. I'm perfectly OK with the idea that it gets colder as you go south, but if that were the case, I would expect the seasons to be reversed, with autumn happening in April. But Thedas doesn't use English month names, so trying to line them up like "Satinalia = December solstice" is pure silliness on my part. My mind boggles with disappointing ease.

The five holidays, or annums, take place at the beginning of the month within which they fall.

1st month: Verimensis / Wintermarch (Annum: First Day)
2nd month: Pluitanis / Guardian (Annum: Wintersend)
3rd month: Nubulis / Drakonis
4th month: Eluviesta / Cloudreach
5th month: Molioris / Bloomingtide (Annum: Summerday)
6th month: Ferventis / Justinian
7th month: Solis / Solace
8th month: Matrinalis / August (Annum: All Soul's Day)
9th month: Parvulis / Kingsway
10th month: Frumentum / Harvestmere
11th month: Umbralis / Firstfall (Annum: Satinalia)
12th month: Cassus / Haring

You are looking at it by comparing to the real world, which you should not be. To us, of course it seems like their year should be starting in the 6th month because the seasons are reversed, but they didn't don't think of it that way. Winter is winter, and while Wintersend may, for us, correspond to the middle of the year for say, Australians, it IS the start of the year in Thedas.

Now, if the world grows beyond Thedas, they may have cause for thinking of it differently, but that is not the case currently.