217 réponses à ce sujet

[Display Name Owner]

Well I can't say I much cared about Earth either tbh. And I live there.

Oddly it was the Turians I felt the most for. Maybe it's because they were the ones doing the most fighting for their homeworld throughout the whole Reaper War. Earth fell in an instant, and then all through the game people are pledging support for it, so there was no underdog feeling there. Thessia had a good while before being overrun. Tuchanka got light treatment, because it was already a cesspit, and Sur'Kesh miraculously got left alone. The others were, sadly, background noise. Gah, I was so eager to see Dekuuna.

[Han Shot First]

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I think one of the lessons BioWare can take from the BSN is that much of their player base is comprised of morally stunted narcissists. Seriously, welcoming billions of civilian casualties because their leaders didn't conform to the player character's will? That's monstrous.

This.

[Steelcan]

Han Shot First wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I think one of the lessons BioWare can take from the BSN is that much of their player base is comprised of morally stunted narcissists. Seriously, welcoming billions of civilian casualties because their leaders didn't conform to the player character's will? That's monstrous.

This.

.  I find it hard to sympathize with them losing their world because their leaders were too pig-headed to help.

[DuskWanderer]

David7204 wrote...

First of all, that's just nonsense hindsight bias. The asari did not 'doom trillions' any more than everyone who ever passed a young Hitler in the street 'doomed millions' by not beating him to death on sight.

Secondly, the Illusive Man telling Leng to head to Thessia after the Coup does nothing to prove or even indicate he didn't know about the beacon until then.

Oh yes, they did. Tevos knew about the Crucible when Liara gave them the data on it. It was known to be Prothean, and incredibly complex. The fact that the asari did not, at the very least, mention the beacon (as well as turn over Prothean scientists who could help complete it) did doom the war to last longer and cause trillions of people to lose their lives. There is no "hindsight bias" here. The fact that asari didn't even lift their fingers until the coup speaks volumes, and they still withheld that. 

As for TIM, I'd like you to provide some evidence that says he did know. Clearly, he found it important enough to send one of his enforcers, and, just like Shepard, he didn't send one until the planet was about to fall? Why? Why would he put off something that important? What was Kai Leng doing while Shepard was on Tuchanka? Putzing around? If TIM knew about it, he'd have secured, especially since he got his information directly from the source. 

[Tyzx]

isnudo wrote...

Well I can't say I much cared about Earth either tbh. And I live there.

Oddly it was the Turians I felt the most for. Maybe it's because they were the ones doing the most fighting for their homeworld throughout the whole Reaper War. Earth fell in an instant, and then all through the game people are pledging support for it, so there was no underdog feeling there. Thessia had a good while before being overrun. Tuchanka got light treatment, because it was already a cesspit, and Sur'Kesh miraculously got left alone. The others were, sadly, background noise. Gah, I was so eager to see Dekuuna.

Yes I wanted to see the non-council worlds. I wanted to see Kahje for a matter of fact. I actually felt a lot for Earth, they put up a short but desperate attempt to hold the Reapers at bay, but failed miserably. And I for one want to know how the Salarians managed to put of the invasion of Sur'Kesh since Cerberus easily stepped foot on Sur'Kesh and on a secret STG facility 

[DuskWanderer]

Han Shot First wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I think one of the lessons BioWare can take from the BSN is that much of their player base is comprised of morally stunted narcissists. Seriously, welcoming billions of civilian casualties because their leaders didn't conform to the player character's will? That's monstrous.

This.

Their leaders condemned their own people by sitting on something they knew would help and doing nothing about it. Player character's will nothing, they did nothing for their own people but let them die to protect their race's secret.

[Neria Rose]

I couldn't have cared less. But then, I never viewed the Asari as a realistic species. I can't suspend my disbelief enough for it. So I never mourned the loss of the homeworld of a bunch of lesbian blue space babes.

I did care about all of the other homeworlds, though.

[AresKeith]

If Thessia had side-missions similar to Tuchanka and Rannoch, and the main mission was long then sure I would probably feel something for Thessia

[Dextro Milk]

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I think one of the lessons BioWare can take from the BSN is that much of their player base is comprised of morally stunted narcissists. Seriously, welcoming billions of civilian casualties because their leaders didn't conform to the player character's will? That's monstrous.

This.

.  I find it hard to sympathize with them losing their world because their leaders were too pig-headed to help.

Then you need to blame the leaders, not the people. Same thing goes with every nation in real life. You don't blame all Americans because our president made a stupid decision, but I'm not going to get into politics here.

[Steelcan]

Dextro Milk wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I think one of the lessons BioWare can take from the BSN is that much of their player base is comprised of morally stunted narcissists. Seriously, welcoming billions of civilian casualties because their leaders didn't conform to the player character's will? That's monstrous.

This.

.  I find it hard to sympathize with them losing their world because their leaders were too pig-headed to help.

Then you need to blame the leaders, not the people. Same thing goes with every nation in real life. You don't blame all Americans because our president made a stupid decision, but I'm not going to get into politics here.

The Asari are a direct democracy.  They are responsible for the leaders they elected into power.

[David7204]

And yet again, we're going right to being crippling incapable of distinguishing what a race actually is. The asari did not 'do nothing.' There are a significant number of asari planets Shepard can visit that detail their struggles with the Reapers long before the player sets foot on Thessia.

Secondly, I don't have to provide evidence. The burden of proof is on you. The Illusive Man waited for Shepard to retrieve the beacon because he needed Shepard to unlock it.

It was Cerberus who stole the beacon. Not the Reapers.

Modifié par David7204, 16 juillet 2013 - 12:12 .

[Dextro Milk]

Steelcan wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I think one of the lessons BioWare can take from the BSN is that much of their player base is comprised of morally stunted narcissists. Seriously, welcoming billions of civilian casualties because their leaders didn't conform to the player character's will? That's monstrous.

This.

.  I find it hard to sympathize with them losing their world because their leaders were too pig-headed to help.

Then you need to blame the leaders, not the people. Same thing goes with every nation in real life. You don't blame all Americans because our president made a stupid decision, but I'm not going to get into politics here.

The Asari are a direct democracy.  They are responsible for the leaders they elected into power.

Would you blame me for what my president does? I didn't want him in power, and I can assure you many Asari did not agree with the current decisions their leaders made - such as hiding the beacon.

[David7204]

Nearly every 'argument' I've seen about how stupid such-and-such race is is moronic. They really all seem to boil down to 'This race is stupid because they didn't bow down to what I as a player know like a mother with a shrieking toddler."

[ParkBom]

Dextro Milk wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I think one of the lessons BioWare can take from the BSN is that much of their player base is comprised of morally stunted narcissists. Seriously, welcoming billions of civilian casualties because their leaders didn't conform to the player character's will? That's monstrous.

This.

.  I find it hard to sympathize with them losing their world because their leaders were too pig-headed to help.

Then you need to blame the leaders, not the people. Same thing goes with every nation in real life. You don't blame all Americans because our president made a stupid decision, but I'm not going to get into politics here.

The Asari are a direct democracy.  They are responsible for the leaders they elected into power.

Would you blame me for what my president does? I didn't want him in power, and I can assure you many Asari did not agree with the current decisions their leaders made - such as hiding the beacon.

Most Asari, possibly including the Councilor iirc, didn't even know about the beacon. (Agreeing with ya, Milky. :

[Steelcan]

@Dextro Milk
  Why wouldn't they?  It improved their own station in the galaxy and kept other races technologically inferior.  Morally questionable, but when has that ever mattered?

When the leaders commit such atrocities with the silent consent of the populace we have only to look in a mirror to see those responsible.

Modifié par Steelcan, 16 juillet 2013 - 12:17 .

[wolfhowwl]

Even a Shepard that didn't like the Asari would see that losing a Council homeworld is a terrible blow to the war effort and a huge loss of assets if nothing else.

A reaper agent just made off with a key component of the super weapon that we know is the only way to win. At the time, we have no idea that we will be able to retrieve it. Priority: Thessia was a crushing failure for the resistance and Shepard. Even if you didn't care at all about the Asari personally, your ability to save the things you do care about was badly hurt and something worth being upset over.

But like the other attempts to add emotion (dreams) it was obviously poorly handled and took away control from the player. 

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 16 juillet 2013 - 12:21 .

[DeinonSlayer]

We never saw Thessia before it got crushed. There's no basis for attachment. Earth had the same problem.

Had they done something like this on Illium, encountering familiar places and people we met before (Erinya, Aethyta etc.) as fighters or refugees whom we were ultimately unable to help, it would have had far more impact.

The battle for Earth, and all casualties incurred therein, could have been avoided if the Asari government hadn't held on to the beacon for their own self-serving purposes. Funny that those who deign to cast judgement on other races from on high were themselves guilty of the kind of crime they would have harshly punished others for.

I have no sympathy for the Asari government. I would have wanted the option to chew Tevos' ass over this, even if she hung up immediately - I sure as hell wouldn't be apologizing to her. We can say it to Liara, but she isn't the one who needs to hear it. We get the chance to call out just about everyone else for the crap they try to pull in this war (sans directly confronting the Krogan leader for holding the war effort hostage). The people I have sympathy for; the leaders who sat back and let others fight while hoarding the solution all the while? Can't say I'd bat an eye if they got husk'ed.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 16 juillet 2013 - 12:26 .

[TNT1991]

I didn't care about Thessia either, but then again, I also didn't care that much for Earth or Palaven. The only reasons I "cared" about Palaven was becuase Garrus was my Shepard's Li and that the Turians are my favorite race of the whole ME series.

I would like to care more about Thessia or Palaven (I really do) if it only lasted just as long as Rannoch or Tuchanka and that we could do some side missions and/or spend more time there to get more personal with the planet and it's civilians (or something along those lines).
IMO,it felt like Palaven and Thessia took a back seat while Rannoch and Tuchanka were put in the spotlight throughout this game (since they were both memoriable and emotionally investing, again, imo).

I don't know, maybe the two of the three homeworlds I really wanted to be invested in this game, didn't happen. So, when Liara (and others) "freaked out" after Thessia, I honestly felt like I missed something and/or didn't care as I should have like the game wanted me to.  


 

[David7204]

That is nonsense. Is there a shred of evidence whatsoever that the asari ever learned a thing from the beacon? No. The evidence is that they were given help by the Protheans.

[The Night Mammoth]

Steelcan wrote...

@Dextro Milk
  Why wouldn't they?  It improved their own station in the galaxy and kept other races technologically inferior.  Morally questionable, but when has that ever mattered?

When the leaders commit such atrocities with the silent consent of the populace we have only to look in a mirror to see those responsible.

What atrocities and where's the evidence of silent consent? We have no idea exactly what the asari gained from the beacon, and there's no way the wider asari population knew about it, the f*cking yahg Shadow Broker had no idea and this thing has been there the whole time he was in power.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

That is nonsense. Is there a shred of evidence whatsoever that the asari ever learned a thing from the beacon? No. The evidence is that they were given help by the Protheans.

.  Except for the fact that they would have to be the dunbest people imaginable to not get anything.  Humanity extracted data before the even knew of mass effect technology.

[AresKeith]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

We never saw Thessia before it got crushed. There's no basis for attachment. Earth had the same problem.

Had they done something like this on Illium, encountering familiar places and people we met before (Erinya, Aethyta etc.) as fighters or refugees whom we were ultimately unable to help, it would have had far more impact.

The battle for Earth, and all casualties incurred therein, could have been avoided if the Asari government hadn't held on to the beacon for their own self-serving purposes. Funny that those who deign to cast judgement on other races from on high were themselves guilty of the kind of crime they would have harshly punished others for.

I have no sympathy for the Asari government. I would have wanted the option to chew Tevos' ass over this, even if she hung up immediately - I sure as hell wouldn't be apologizing to her. We can say it to Liara, but she isn't the one who needs to hear it. We get the chance to call out just about everyone else for the crap they try to pull in this war (sans directly confronting the Krogan leader for holding the war effort hostage). The people I have sympathy for; the leaders who sat back and let others fight while hoarding the solution all the while? Can't say I'd bat an eye if they got husk'ed.

I once heard that Illium was gonna be in the game but was cut

[DuskWanderer]

David7204 wrote...

And yet again, we're going right to being crippling incapable of distinguishing what a race actually is. The asari did not 'do nothing.' There are a significant number of asari planets Shepard can visit that detail their struggles with the Reapers long before the player sets foot on Thessia.

Secondly, I don't have to provide evidence. The burden of proof is on you. The Illusive Man waited for Shepard to retrieve the beacon because he needed Shepard to unlock it.

It was Cerberus who stole the beacon. Not the Reapers.

You aren't even making arguments, they make no sense at all. How does self-defense of a colony struggling against a Reaper have to do with the fact that Asari High Command withheld the beacon from Shepard when they knew about it before Shepard even left for Palaven? 

I've already provided evidence: The data TIM had told him about the beacon on Thessia, but he didn't do anything about it. The beacon didn't need to be unlocked by Shepard: Information had been gleaned from beacons, it's how any of the races had mass effect technology at all.

That is not an argument. It is true, however, that TIM ordered Kai Leng to go to Thessia, to get the beacon he KNEW had what needed, after the coup. Why did he wait? The most obvious solution was that he didn't know, he needed time to sort through the data he downloaded on Mars to learn about the Thessia beacon. Time that, had Asari High Command actually been forthcoming and mentioned it, Shepard could have strolled in, got the data, and been on his merry way.

Yes, Cerberus stole the data, not the Reapers. What is your point on that?