217 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Barquiel wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

David 7204 wrote...

That's nonsense anyway. As I'll point out yet again, there are numerous planets the player can visit detailing the asari struggling with the Reapers long before the player sets foot on Thessia.

You are leaving out the fact that the Asari are keeping themselves out of the war effort beyond colonial defense of their own planets. They certainly aren't helping anybody else. In fact, they choose not to try and help when a summit is convened to create an alliance to fight the Reapers, or to provide support for the Crucible until after the attempted coup.

That's flat out wrong. We have evidence that the Asari did help the Alliance even before the asari councilor promised to send ships to Earth (Note that she promised to help Earth at virtually the same time as the Turians, Salarians and Krogan) -> that Asari Commando with PTSD in the Citadel Hospital.

To answer the question, I cared more about Thessia than I cared about Earth.

When did the Asari Councilor promise help before the coup? Seems she flat out denies assistance before then. 

And an Asari unit on a single human colony, that we little have no context on.

Great evidence.

[Steelcan]

Some people are just so determined to defend the race of their waifu.... The levels of denial are impressive really.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

Some people are just so determined to defend the race of their waifu.... The levels of denial are impressive really.

It's like that Necanor guy and Quarians...

I support protecting the area with the most strategic value. Places where we can utilize the most resources. We also need to keep moving. Don't engage. Hold off on fighting, and tie up the Reapers in trying to hunt down our fleets. Send them on a wild goose chase. Meanwhile, keep building the Crucible in secret, and keep as low-key a presence on resource worlds as possible. Don't draw their attention. Give the Reapers something else to target, like heavily populated worlds.

[Nole]

Of course I care about Thessia. Where I'm going to go once I'm retired if Thessia is destroyed?

[wolfhowwl]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Some people are just so determined to defend the race of their waifu.... The levels of denial are impressive really.

It's like that Necanor guy and Quarians...

Or Auld Wulf and a Geth Prime...

[MassivelyEffective0730]

WittingEight65 wrote...

Of course I care about Thessia. Where I'm going to go once I'm retired if Thessia is destroyed?

Nevos?

Earth?

Illium?

Eden Prime?

Elysium?

The Citadel?

Or the best one yet, Lesuss. I think you'd *love* it there.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 16 juillet 2013 - 02:50 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

wolfhowwl wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Some people are just so determined to defend the race of their waifu.... The levels of denial are impressive really.

It's like that Necanor guy and Quarians...

Or Auld Wulf and a Geth Prime...

Or Seival and a Reaper.

[Dextro Milk]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Some people are just so determined to defend the race of their waifu.... The levels of denial are impressive really.

It's like that Necanor guy and Quarians...

Or Auld Wulf and a Geth Prime...

Or Seival and a Reaper.

Or MassivelyEffective and humans... 

(If this was already said, oh well, didn't feel like checking.)

[PMC65]

Dextro Milk wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Some people are just so determined to defend the race of their waifu.... The levels of denial are impressive really.

It's like that Necanor guy and Quarians...

Or Auld Wulf and a Geth Prime...

Or Seival and a Reaper.

Or MassivelyEffective and humans... 

(If this was already said, oh well, didn't feel like checking.)

Or Willie Wonka and the Oompa-Loompas ... Crap. I didn't do that right, did I?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Dextro Milk wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

wolfhowwl wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Some people are just so determined to defend the race of their waifu.... The levels of denial are impressive really.

It's like that Necanor guy and Quarians...

Or Auld Wulf and a Geth Prime...

Or Seival and a Reaper.

Or MassivelyEffective and humans... 

(If this was already said, oh well, didn't feel like checking.)

I'm not a human supremacist like a lot of people here. While I support human advancement and growth, I'm not a realist when it comes to foreign policy. I'm a progressive constructivist. I think people need to change their idea's and work towards the benefit of all. I'd try to act in the best interest of the entire galactic community than just one race in particular, even if it was my own.

The only races I support a hardline for are the Krogans, who I believe have been inherently bred to be aggressive and territorial (the codex mentions that Krogans with the more... sympathetic traits have long ago died out). It's literally their nature to be the way they are. I'm fine with giving them a chance, but I'm not going screw around with them - they're wild cards, and I'll do what's needed for the interest of galactic security if I have too.

The Leviathans, whom have shown to hold a perspective that is inherently incompatible with galactic civilization. They think they're gods, and that it is their right to rule over the galaxy. For our own good, we must isolate ourselves from them.

And the Batarians, whom I feel need to not so much be negotiated with so much as needing a regime change along with a bit of constructivism. They need to see that they aren't the end all, beat all. I'd support peace with them, but I'd also be using coercive diplomacy with them. Sorry for the political terminology for anyone that doesn't understand what I'm saying: I have a B.A. in Political Science and International Relations, so I tend to think about this sort of stuff a lot from a political standpoint.

I do believe the Asari need to re-examine their cultural and societal disposition if they want to maintain a significant grasp in the balance of galactic power. I do believe that Thessia will serve as a collective hit on their ego, one for which I believe they are long overdue.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 16 juillet 2013 - 03:07 .

[KaiserShep]

No more than earth I suppose.

[Wolfva2]

Steelcan wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

You don't have to care about Thessia. Unfortunately, though, Shepard DOES. People keep forgetting we're not playing OUR character; we're playing a pre-rolled guy named Cmndr Shepard. We get to influence his actions and such, but some things are out of our control. He has PTSD surrounding the death of a child he tried to save, he is upset about Thessia.

Not saying I wouldn't have wanted us to have more control over Shep; fact is, I'm not saying one way or the other if I even like the approach or not. Just stating a fact; we play Shep; Shep sometimes has his own mind about things that may differ from what we want.

In which case some Shepards are OOC.  You can butcher entire species, but one kid dies and you lose it?

Yep. 

I'd explain why, but I've done so several times already and you've ignorred those explanations in the past, so why waste my time now?  Granted, those explainations were grounded in actual human psychology and human history, but hey.  You don't like your comic book character being more then a cardboard cutout so you don't like it.  <shrug>  Whatever floats your boat.

Bottom line:  Bioware decided Shep would care.  Don't like it?  Cry us a river, build a bridge and get over it.  

[Wolfva2]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

So either Liara lied about the Broker's influence, or she is incompetent. Given that the SB can use SPECTRES and start wars... Im going with incompetent.

Sure, go with incompetant. 

That would be stupid, because Liara's not incompetant, she doesn't lie, and it's more likely the Shadow Broker just doesn't have any information on the temple, but yeah, fine, keep letting bias hold sway. 

Oh COME ON!  Of COURSE Liarra is incompetent!  Why, in the 6 months she's been Shadow Broker she should have mastered what the previous broker had years to master!  Not only mastered it...but instantly memorized every bit of data he had accrued before her!  That's...that's just common sense!

He said, sarcastically.


Someone said something about her not knowing about Sanctuary.  Well, since it was a relatively new situation and she had just recently lost the Shadow Broker ship  in an attack, retreating to the Normandy which didn't have the same intel capabilities, not to mention her available agents were spread thin (the ones not killed anyways) gathering intel on the reapers....yeah.  Inept.  Right. 

Look, she doesn't have unlimited manpower or resources.  What few she does have must be allocated where they're needed.  Sanctuary wasn't even seen as a potential problem really until Shep landed there.

Modifié par Wolfva2, 16 juillet 2013 - 03:32 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

This is a pile of crap I'm reading in this thread. The reapers were hitting all over the place. What is so speshul about humans? Shepard is gathering support for Earth. "Earth was hit hardest." Bull****. Khar'shan was hit hardest. Palaven didn't look like they were doing so hot either. They were taking 80% casualties even after the Krogan got there. So Shepard is asking for help from the Turians while Palaven was burning. "Earth needs your help now!!!" Before the Krogan support.

And the entire galaxy is going to have Admiral Hackett as supreme commander of Allied Forces becuz he iz da gratist. Probably because Earth alliance wouldn't take orders from a Turian.

The Asari were getting battle plans in place to protect their worlds. They had contingency plans in effect for continuity of civilization in the event the reapers were to win. So they didn't necessarily share everything on the beacon. Just because a government is a direct democracy doesn't mean that the people know everything that their government is doing either. You elect your state legislators here in America. Do you know what they're doing? I'll bet 1/4 of you can't even name them. Earth did illegal AI experiments on the moon that went awry, too, and kept that hushed up.

Did the Asari even know Vendetta was on that beacon? Probably not. We didn't know that the Crucible was on the Mars beacon until the Reapers had finished cleaning out the Batarian systems. Then it suddenly appeared. Perhaps the existence of Vendetta suddenly became known at the point where the Asari councilor tells you?

And funny how Cerberus knew about it. Nice how that segment was written in Udina's bugged office and not in the Asari councilor's office, not to mention that TIM had contacts in C-sec.

Then Kai Lame shows up and The Illusive Man pops out. Does Derpard shoot Kai Lame? No. Derpard has a conversation with The Illusive Man because of REASONS. Then Kai Lame takes the VI from Derpard and walks away and practically kills Derpard. The amount of derp on this mission is astounding.

Cerberus got the drop on Shepard. Shepard f***ed up and maybe cost them the war, and this means slushie time. That's why Shepard is upset. Shepard nearly died on the mission. And the fact that Cerberus stole the VI meant almost game over. But did it matter? No. Vendetta was there to provide pretty diagrams and talk about the cycle and how many times the cycle had repeated itself. That's all. The entire presentation about what the catalyst was ended up to be completely meaningless. Why? A moron could look at the design of the crucible and figure out that it attached to the citadel ring.

And all this crap I'm reading about the Shadow Broker. Liara had two or three writers this game, not one like in ME2. Her character had lines taken from her original dialog and given to other characters. She goes from "let's pick up where we left off" in the beginning to "friend-zone" when a different writer takes over. Then if you have From Ashes and DON'T take Javik on the Thessia mission the character get's amnesia about what a Prothean looks like. This is sloppy scripting and dialog tree writing. The QA department didn't go over this very well. You can't blame Liara. Blame QA. I think making her Shadow Broker raised expectations way too high like she was going to be some kind of miracle worker for the story. She was presented as such in LotSB, but that all changed when her character writer became lead for ME3 and assumed a secondary position as her character writer. If they had not made From Ashes day 1 DLC and made it part of the game to be run through QA as everyone had it, then this crap wouldn't have happened.

ME3 was rushed out the door and it really shows from Thessia onward.

[Wolfva2]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

You don't have to care about Thessia. Unfortunately, though, Shepard DOES. People keep forgetting we're not playing OUR character; we're playing a pre-rolled guy named Cmndr Shepard. We get to influence his actions and such, but some things are out of our control. He has PTSD surrounding the death of a child he tried to save, he is upset about Thessia.

Not saying I wouldn't have wanted us to have more control over Shep; fact is, I'm not saying one way or the other if I even like the approach or not. Just stating a fact; we play Shep; Shep sometimes has his own mind about things that may differ from what we want.

Which leads to a lack of player agency for Shepard. Great work Bioware.

And THAT is the best, most valid complaint about that issue.  They said we'd make Shep's decisions; they shouldn't have then set up situations where we had no control over how he felt.  Perhaps, one day, in the character creation screen we'll be able to chose our personality traits.  Like, "Cold blooded stoic who laughs as children burn to death in shuttle crashes", or "Kindly, compassionate soldier who feels every death" with other options in between.  Then, the story could be tailored for each personality.  However, this one wasn't made like that <shrug>.  Oh well, can't change the past, can we?  We can just hope for the future.

[Nole]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

Of course I care about Thessia. Where I'm going to go once I'm retired if Thessia is destroyed?

Nevos?

Earth?

Illium?

Eden Prime?

Elysium?

The Citadel?

Or the best one yet, Lesuss. I think you'd *love* it there.

But I like the tentacles.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Wolfva2 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

You don't have to care about Thessia. Unfortunately, though, Shepard DOES. People keep forgetting we're not playing OUR character; we're playing a pre-rolled guy named Cmndr Shepard. We get to influence his actions and such, but some things are out of our control. He has PTSD surrounding the death of a child he tried to save, he is upset about Thessia.

Not saying I wouldn't have wanted us to have more control over Shep; fact is, I'm not saying one way or the other if I even like the approach or not. Just stating a fact; we play Shep; Shep sometimes has his own mind about things that may differ from what we want.

Which leads to a lack of player agency for Shepard. Great work Bioware.

And THAT is the best, most valid complaint about that issue.  They said we'd make Shep's decisions; they shouldn't have then set up situations where we had no control over how he felt.  Perhaps, one day, in the character creation screen we'll be able to chose our personality traits.  Like, "Cold blooded stoic who laughs as children burn to death in shuttle crashes", or "Kindly, compassionate soldier who feels every death" with other options in between.  Then, the story could be tailored for each personality.  However, this one wasn't made like that <shrug>.  Oh well, can't change the past, can we?  We can just hope for the future.

A cold blooded stoic wouldn't laugh at children's deaths. He'd accept their loss as the inevitability of warfare and get on with his job. He knows that the sooner he does his job, the less children will die in the future. 

What's most disgruntling is how inconsistent they portray Shepard. You have the ability to be a butcher and killer of entire species, yet you have to be a compassionate and kind soldier for one child. 

It's bloody inconsistent. Suddenly, your Shepard is performing actions that go against his writing in some circumstances. 

All for forced feels. I'd really enjoy if BW stopped banging the "feel bad" hammer on people's heads. It's more than just for the kid. Whatever your opinion of Cerberus and the alliance, you're more or less squeezed into being a pro-alliance Shepard in ME3.

Of course, BW thinks it's better for a game to be cinematic than left to player determination if they can't have both. 

I think ME2 had a very good balance of player agency and cinematic value in the game.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

WittingEight65 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

Of course I care about Thessia. Where I'm going to go once I'm retired if Thessia is destroyed?

Nevos?

Earth?

Illium?

Eden Prime?

Elysium?

The Citadel?

Or the best one yet, Lesuss. I think you'd *love* it there.

But I like the tentacles.

Then go swim with the squid in the Sea of Cortez. It's the same thing.

[Wolfva2]

Yeah, you got me there Massive. A stoic laughing? /facepalm

In BWs defense (lame as it may be), most other games with a pre-rolled antogonist do the same. I just started Deus Ex Human Revolution. Enjoying it massively, but apparently in the past your character quit the SWAT team because he refused to shoot a 15 year old aug who was threatening people. <blink><blink> I don't get it. This is supposed to show...what? That he's caring? That he won't kill a kid? A person with a weapon threatening people is a person with a weapon. I don't care how old he is. You cap his arse. You don't do it because you like it, or because you want to, you do it because your job is to protect the lives of the innocent and he's threatening those lives. I'm not particularly happy that my character is 'forced' into having made such a poor decision before the game even starts. But sometimes we have to accept that we don't have full control over our characters and just shrug it off. After all, we play games to have fun...why over think it? But still...it's annoying <LOL>

[Ryzaki]

Plenty of people DGAF about Thessia.

That's why I was so aggravated at Shep's wangst mode afterwards.

[shit's fucked cunts]

Thessia and all of it's people deserve to burn because of a few corrupt and/or paranoid officials.

Yep.

[The Don's Hound]

For the first playthrough, zero sh*ts given.

That's cause on my first playthrough, I hadn't played the first games. Then, I gave f*cks.

Yes, yes you are you cold bastard.

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

So either Liara lied about the Broker's influence, or she is incompetent. Given that the SB can use SPECTRES and start wars... Im going with incompetent.

The fact that TRAYNOR is the one who finds Cerberus hideout didn't tip you off? 

Zazzerka wrote...

Thessia and all of it's people deserve to burn because of a few corrupt and/or paranoid officials.

Yep.

Clearly because not caring about something means I believe they deserved it and...not you know there's more important things for me to be concerned about.

Clearly.

No I don't think the Asari deserved all to die. (Well save Tevos and Morinth. And god did I wanna chew her ass out (Asari Councilor) alas no option. Just look sad when Shep pretty much gets the rug pulled under him because the asari gov't decide not to offer vital information til their asses are in the fire).

I don't particularly care about their deaths though. Far more useful and willing to help people are also on the chopping block. I'll save the people who scratch my back first before giving a damn about others. Cold? Yep. Galatic extinction is occuring. Don't have time to be wasting being a bleeding heart and helping people who are too scared to contribute til its too late. Even the Salarians give you the damn benefit of the doubt. Asari? Nope they write the war council off immediately. So sorry if I'm not crying a river.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 16 juillet 2013 - 04:08 .

[Barquiel]

The Yahg tried to find TIMs base for several years and failed. Then came Liara. In the span of six months (researching everything Prothean she could get her hands on in the hopes of finding something) she was not being able to find the Illusive Man's base. Yes, she's clearly incompetent...

Modifié par Barquiel, 16 juillet 2013 - 04:04 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Yeah, you got me there Massive. A stoic laughing? /facepalm

In BWs defense (lame as it may be), most other games with a pre-rolled antogonist do the same. I just started Deus Ex Human Revolution. Enjoying it massively, but apparently in the past your character quit the SWAT team because he refused to shoot a 15 year old aug who was threatening people. <blink><blink> I don't get it. This is supposed to show...what? That he's caring? That he won't kill a kid? A person with a weapon threatening people is a person with a weapon. I don't care how old he is. You cap his arse. You don't do it because you like it, or because you want to, you do it because your job is to protect the lives of the innocent and he's threatening those lives. I'm not particularly happy that my character is 'forced' into having made such a poor decision before the game even starts. But sometimes we have to accept that we don't have full control over our characters and just shrug it off. After all, we play games to have fun...why over think it? But still...it's annoying <LOL>

That's one hell of a scewed example tbh. There's a difference between a character's backstory being predetermined and something happening on screen when an issue of emotional investment comes up. For instance you can choose between holding on to Megan's bracelet or letting go and giving it to her mom, you can similarly define his viewpoint in regards to whether he feels resentment towards being augmented. The events leading to your current situation are strickly scripted what emotons you want your character to have are largely your buisness however.
It's one of the reasons I liked the Jacob romance in ME2 so much, it actually provided an opportunity to vent if I felt like it, and if I did it let me decide what I wanted to vent most.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 16 juillet 2013 - 04:05 .