302 réponses à ce sujet

[Ledgend1221]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

If the Geth fleet is so powerful, why do the Quarians outmatch them by default?

Quarians
Civillian Fleet: 200
Heavy Fleet: 200
Patrol Fleet: 200
Total: 600
           450 if heretics rewritten

Geth:
Geth Fleet: 300,
450 if heretics rewritten
150 if destroyed

See? Even if you rewrote the heretics, they're still equal in strength.

If the Krogan have no fleet, how can they be worth more then either?
How can N7 spec ops be worth thousands?

[HellbirdIV]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

If the Geth fleet is so powerful, why do the Quarians outmatch them by default?

EMS is also based on overall military usefulness, I imagine.

The geth are stronger as a fighting fleet (which is why I picked them) but the quarians are without a doubt better as a logistics fleet - which is the whole reason you want to recruit them.

Even if you're generous and say the geth keep spacious corridors on ALL of their ships to allow mobile platforms to walk around, they still have far less space and ability when it comes to transporting organics.

[136th]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

136th wrote...

HellbirdIV wrote...

136th wrote...

Kill the Geth

Their entire race is a liability for the war effort. The Geth are only concerned by survival; they would gladly betray anyone just so save their own skin.

The quarians are the exact same way though, so that's not really a factor.

No really.

At least the quarian won't betray everyone and side with the reapers just to live a few more month.

Geth sympathisers have no sense of stradegies nor foresights.

I have plenty of stategy and foresight. The Geth supplemented the Turian fleet heavily. Their infantry helped on worlds where husks were beginning to run rampant. They worked perfectly. Better than the Quarians would have.

The Geth have technologically advanced warships that have an unprecedented capability for communications and information processing. The Quarian's, while possessing a formidible fleet, don't quite have that. They have a lot of ships that have uses primarily as... fodder, bullet sponges. 

The Geth ground force is made up of synthetic machines that are immune to the elements and biological necessities that halt organic forces. They are immune to disease and toxic environments. They have no need of air, rest, waste disposal, food, or down-time. Injuries and damage don't stop them. They are capable of self-repair. They are 100% dedicated to fighting 100% of the time. Not to mention they have advanced combat and targeting software.

The Quarians, however well trained they are, don't have that. They are particularly vulnerable to disease and plague. Injuries and wounds are crippling for them, especially if they suffer infection as a result. They need to sleep, they need to eat (especially requiring specialized dextro-amino based food that must be imported.) They are susceptible to indoctrination and psychological damage. They have some pretty big disadvantages that the Geth don't have.

And the Geth didn't betray anyone. You're advocating that they just sit back and allow the Quarians to kill them? And you still want the Quarians on your side for destroying a ship (while you were still on board)? You want them on board when they aren't prepared to listen to reason? When the big picture to them is all about their score with the Geth?

You know the Reapers will kill the geth too right?

The Geth allied with the Reapers despite the fact that the Reapers will exterminate the Geth anayway. So, the geth basically allied with a reace of genocidal space cyborgs because allying with them will allow them to live a few months more....then get exterminated in the end anyaway.

Don't you realize that the geth only care for short-term survival? They will betray everyone just to live a few minutes more.

And you call alling with them stradegy?

Seriously I'm sure that in the Refuseal ending, the Geth will betray the whole galactic alliance just so that the Reapers will kill them last.

Thus, Like I said the entired Geth consensus is a liability to the war effort; any commader with half a brain would exterminated them.

[Ledgend1221]

136th wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

136th wrote...

HellbirdIV wrote...

136th wrote...

Kill the Geth

Their entire race is a liability for the war effort. The Geth are only concerned by survival; they would gladly betray anyone just so save their own skin.

The quarians are the exact same way though, so that's not really a factor.

No really.

At least the quarian won't betray everyone and side with the reapers just to live a few more month.

Geth sympathisers have no sense of stradegies nor foresights.

I have plenty of stategy and foresight. The Geth supplemented the Turian fleet heavily. Their infantry helped on worlds where husks were beginning to run rampant. They worked perfectly. Better than the Quarians would have.

The Geth have technologically advanced warships that have an unprecedented capability for communications and information processing. The Quarian's, while possessing a formidible fleet, don't quite have that. They have a lot of ships that have uses primarily as... fodder, bullet sponges. 

The Geth ground force is made up of synthetic machines that are immune to the elements and biological necessities that halt organic forces. They are immune to disease and toxic environments. They have no need of air, rest, waste disposal, food, or down-time. Injuries and damage don't stop them. They are capable of self-repair. They are 100% dedicated to fighting 100% of the time. Not to mention they have advanced combat and targeting software.

The Quarians, however well trained they are, don't have that. They are particularly vulnerable to disease and plague. Injuries and wounds are crippling for them, especially if they suffer infection as a result. They need to sleep, they need to eat (especially requiring specialized dextro-amino based food that must be imported.) They are susceptible to indoctrination and psychological damage. They have some pretty big disadvantages that the Geth don't have.

And the Geth didn't betray anyone. You're advocating that they just sit back and allow the Quarians to kill them? And you still want the Quarians on your side for destroying a ship (while you were still on board)? You want them on board when they aren't prepared to listen to reason? When the big picture to them is all about their score with the Geth?

You know the Reapers will kill the geth too right?

The Geth allied with the Reapers despite the fact that the Reapers will exterminate the Geth anayway. So, the geth basically allied with a reace of genocidal space cyborgs because allying with them will allow them to live a few months more....then get exterminated in the end anyaway.

Don't you realize that the geth only care for short-term survival? They will betray everyone just to live a few minutes more.

And you call alling with them stradegy?

Seriously I'm sure that in the Refuseal ending, the Geth will betray the whole galactic alliance just so that the Reapers will kill them last.

Thus, Like I said the entired Geth consensus is a liability to the war effort; any commader with half a brain would exterminated them.

Yes, it's a good things people with half-brains aren't allowed into command.
Commanders with full brains will tell you that Victory > Defeat.

[KotorEffect3]

I negotiated peace between the Quarians and the Geth.

[Display Name Owner]

Quarians. I haven't yet done a playthrough where peace was an option, but truth be told I don't think I'd take it anyway. I suppose it's partly a) because lasting peace with the Geth is less likely than with the Quarians because Quarians are the more sympathetic choice. I don't think the Geth have no rights, but at the end of the day, Quarians feel pain and fear, they don't. Putting them down is slightly less unpleasant.

But the biggest reason is that I just hate the whole idea of uploading the Reaper code to turn them into a horde of metal pinocchios. They were interesting as they were before, the notion that they have to conform to everyone else to be a worthwhile form of life is just annoying.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Necanor wrote...

Quarian military advantages:

- transport ships will save hundreds of thousands of lives and easily deploy ground troops

Yes. That is indeed an asset. However, combating the Reapers takes precedence over rescuing civilians. I won't lie, the benefits of Quarian transportation and logistical support are undoubtedly invaluable.

- anti-synthetic weaponry perfect against Reapers

Supposition and headcanon. There is no evidence or statement of Quarian weaponry being superior against other forms of arms over Reaper forces

- second most powerful fleet in the galaxy

Supposition and headcanon. The Quarians have a very large fleet yes, but there is a difference between size and power. I think I described this difference to you using North Korea and the United States Navy. It's not a perfect comparison, but it is relevant. Of the 50,000 ships in the Quarian flotilla, a very small fraction of the ships are specifically built for combat. Most are glass cannons, or as Joker calls it "school buses armed with missiles". 

So they have a large fleet. In size their is power, yes, but I think you're overestimating the combatibility of the Quarians.

- Quarian marines

What about them? They're well trained and proficient. There is no evidence that they are any more or less proficient than any other professional military force. This reason is invalid.

- most technologically savant race in the galaxy

Headcanon. Show me the proof.

- most advanced guns in the galaxy

Headcanon. Show me the proof.

Ultimately the strenght of both forces is heavily influenced by choices in ME2 and 3, with the Quarians' being potentially higher. This is assuming you don't give a damn about morals.

I don't give a damn about morals in war. 

War is about economics. Not morals.

[HellbirdIV]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I don't give a damn about morals in war. 

War is about economics. Not morals.

While that is not always the case - I am personally in favour of military intervention on a moral basis, after all - this is extremely true in regards to the Reaper war.

There is no morality to consider. If you do not defeat the Reapers, everyone - everyone, everywhere, that you've ever known, every relative of every child you've ever seen - will be butchered and turned into Reaper paste.

I would burn every single quarian alive with the flamethrower if it was what was required of me to save the galaxy from the Reapers. I'd do it with any species - turian, asari, human, it doesn't matter. No sacrifice is too great to stop the Reapers.

Trying to preserve the quarians and Rannoch is completley, utterly pointless if the Reapers gain the slightest advantage because of it, because if they destroy the Crucible, the war is over.

We lose.

Everyone. F***ing. Dies.

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 17 juillet 2013 - 05:22 .

[Ledgend1221]

Also, to those saying some nonsense about Quarian civilians, maybe they shouldn't have installed guns on their ships and attacked.

[Sir DeLoria]

Apparently, no one here has ever heard of the Adas Anti-Synthetic Rifle, Reegar Carbine and Arc Pistol. These guns are far more advanced than human, Turian or Asari weaponry. The Quarians are incredibly adaptible, even TIM is fascinated with that. There technical prowess is constantly mentioned ingame and in the codex.

Shepard mentions in the interview with Allers(if you kill the Geth) the following: "the Quarians have specialized on anti-synthetic warfare, what tuey've got in store for the Reapers, I can't even talk about."

[Sir DeLoria]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Also, to those saying some nonsense about Quarian civilians, maybe they shouldn't have installed guns on their ships and attacked.

The Geth don't give a **** either way.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

136th wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

136th wrote...

HellbirdIV wrote...

136th wrote...

Kill the Geth

Their entire race is a liability for the war effort. The Geth are only concerned by survival; they would gladly betray anyone just so save their own skin.

The quarians are the exact same way though, so that's not really a factor.

No really.

At least the quarian won't betray everyone and side with the reapers just to live a few more month.

Geth sympathisers have no sense of stradegies nor foresights.

I have plenty of stategy and foresight. The Geth supplemented the Turian fleet heavily. Their infantry helped on worlds where husks were beginning to run rampant. They worked perfectly. Better than the Quarians would have.

The Geth have technologically advanced warships that have an unprecedented capability for communications and information processing. The Quarian's, while possessing a formidible fleet, don't quite have that. They have a lot of ships that have uses primarily as... fodder, bullet sponges. 

The Geth ground force is made up of synthetic machines that are immune to the elements and biological necessities that halt organic forces. They are immune to disease and toxic environments. They have no need of air, rest, waste disposal, food, or down-time. Injuries and damage don't stop them. They are capable of self-repair. They are 100% dedicated to fighting 100% of the time. Not to mention they have advanced combat and targeting software.

The Quarians, however well trained they are, don't have that. They are particularly vulnerable to disease and plague. Injuries and wounds are crippling for them, especially if they suffer infection as a result. They need to sleep, they need to eat (especially requiring specialized dextro-amino based food that must be imported.) They are susceptible to indoctrination and psychological damage. They have some pretty big disadvantages that the Geth don't have.

And the Geth didn't betray anyone. You're advocating that they just sit back and allow the Quarians to kill them? And you still want the Quarians on your side for destroying a ship (while you were still on board)? You want them on board when they aren't prepared to listen to reason? When the big picture to them is all about their score with the Geth?

You know the Reapers will kill the geth too right?

The Geth allied with the Reapers despite the fact that the Reapers will exterminate the Geth anayway. So, the geth basically allied with a reace of genocidal space cyborgs because allying with them will allow them to live a few months more....then get exterminated in the end anyaway.

Don't you realize that the geth only care for short-term survival? They will betray everyone just to live a few minutes more.

And you call alling with them stradegy?

Seriously I'm sure that in the Refuseal ending, the Geth will betray the whole galactic alliance just so that the Reapers will kill them last.

Thus, Like I said the entired Geth consensus is a liability to the war effort; any commader with half a brain would exterminated them.

Yes, I know the Reapers will target the Geth. That point is irrelevant.

Take a look at the reasoning and arguments for the Geth initially siding with the Reapers. The Geth were literally being placed between everyone, against their own will. The weren't being given such a choice as to worry about the Reapers, because the Quarians were trying to exterminate them as well. Do you realize that the Geth knew what submitting to the Reapers would entail? They do. 

The Geth aren't being given the choice, the capability to join or align against the Reapers. Everybody is trying to kill them, is mistrustful or fearful, etc. 

What else were the Geth to do? I don't like that they submitted themselves to the Reapers, but it's not a betrayal. I don't blame them at all for making their choice. We didn't give them a choice.

Your entire argument is being framed - fallaciously - to put the Geth in a negative and unfavorable light. You're claiming that the Geth will always betray, without considering context as to why they would take action against organics.

I am calling allying with them strategy. Greater strategy than allying with the Quarians for the reasons I provided.

I trust the Geth. They won't ally with the Reapers unless I give them a reason too. It is a Faustian bargain for them, and they know it, but they aren't going to sit back and be arbitrarily destroyed simply over some butthurt Quarian who's angry over something that started 300 years before.

In the event of Refusal, I really doubt the Geth would betray everyone. They're smarter than that. They'd know that the best opportunity for survival lies in cooperation. When that cooperation is bent, or denied, as was the case with the Quarians, the Geth are really left on their own. 

They want to live. They want to survive. If they have two parties who aggressive towards them, they're what it takes to live.

Remember, this was the choice that the Quarians gave the Geth: Don't submit to the Reapers and die now because we hate you. Or submit to the Reapers and voluntarily submit to slavery to live for however long that may be.

I can't fault or blame the Geth for being put in that position. I may not like it, but it is not their fault. The Quarians, the organics of the galaxy, put them into that position. 

[Sir DeLoria]

pirate1802 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...
First choice: Peace, obviously.

If that's not available then blow the suit rats to hell. They deserved it.

:lol:Ikr, especially the damn children, elderly and civilians.

Indeed.

What a lovely person you are:D

[Ledgend1221]

Necanor wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Also, to those saying some nonsense about Quarian civilians, maybe they shouldn't have installed guns on their ships and attacked.

The Geth don't give a **** either way.

Don't change the fact that the quarians painted targets on their Civilian ships.

[HellbirdIV]

Necanor wrote...

Apparently, no one here has ever heard of the Adas Anti-Synthetic Rifle, Reegar Carbine and Arc Pistol. These guns are far more advanced than human, Turian or Asari weaponry.

No, they're not. That's why we're calling it headcanon.

None of those are of any use against the Reapers, anyway. They're made to fight geth.

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 17 juillet 2013 - 05:31 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Necanor wrote...

Apparently, no one here has ever heard of the Adas Anti-Synthetic Rifle, Reegar Carbine and Arc Pistol. These guns are far more advanced than human, Turian or Asari weaponry.

Do you have any proof? Don't answer, it's rhetorical.

You have no proof. Nada. Zero. Zip. 

This statement is a lie.

The Quarians are incredibly adaptible, even TIM is fascinated with that. There technical prowess is constantly mentioned ingame and in the codex.

The Quarians are very technologically capable correct. The point is irrelevant.

TIM is interested in them because he doesn't trust 50,000 ships that might pose a threat to humanity. He has no intelligence assets in the Flotilla. This concerns him a lot. He doesn't like that he doesn't have information on a race that has 50,000 warships flying around the galaxy. I think he justified completely by that displeasure.

Shepard mentions in the interview with Allers(if you kill the Geth) the following: "the Quarians have specialized on anti-synthetic warfare, what tuey've got in store for the Reapers, I can't even talk about."

Context? Do you anymore context for the quote? Do you what Shepard means by what he's saying?

I think he's just trying to assure people that the Quarians are capable. You are trying to objectively argue with a quote. A single quote. 

Argument doesn't work like that. You're discrediting your own argument.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 17 juillet 2013 - 05:37 .

[Ledgend1221]

Necanor wrote...

Apparently, no one here has ever heard of the Adas Anti-Synthetic Rifle, Reegar Carbine and Arc Pistol. These guns are far more advanced than human, Turian or Asari weaponry.

Ever heard of Geth weaponary?
It's the most advanced lore wise.

[AlexMBrennan]

You have no proof. Nada. Zero. Zip.

This statement is a lie.

Your self-awareness does you credit.

An innovation of Admiral Daro'Xen, the Arc Pistol is a scaled-down Arc Projector that only requires thermal clips, to solve its power problems. The Arc Pistol uses a nonvisible laser to ionize the air and create a path for a high-ampere electric shock. For a more damaging blast, it can be charged up.

A pistol-sized heavy weapon... yeah, sounds much less advanced than human... Avenger rifles?

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 17 juillet 2013 - 05:41 .

[Ledgend1221]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

You have no proof. Nada. Zero. Zip.

This statement is a lie.

Your self-awareness does you credit.

An innovation of Admiral Daro'Xen, the Arc Pistol is a scaled-down Arc Projector that only requires thermal clips, to solve its power problems. The Arc Pistol uses a nonvisible laser to ionize the air and create a path for a high-ampere electric shock. For a more damaging blast, it can be charged up.

A pistol-sized heavy weapon... yeah, sounds much less advanced than human... Avenger rifles?

Arc-projecter?
A Cerberus weapon?

[HellbirdIV]

Dextro Milk wrote...

You either have to be incredibly stupid, or just trolling to "ask for proof" as to quarians being the most tech savvy race.

Geth are computer processes, capable of handling software and coordinating hardware functions on levels no organic can ever attain, even with implants.

Salarians are masters of non-linear thinking and development and have faster reaction times than any other organic species.

Quarians have mastered the art of putting together scraps into something useful, effectively stripping down the process of engineering to its most basic logic puzzles, allowing them to work with almost anything.

The quarians are skilled technical engineers. This does not make their technology more advanced nor their technicians undisputably superior - they have their strengths, just like all other species in the setting do. That's part of the theme of the franchise.

[Ledgend1221]

Dextro Milk wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

You have no proof. Nada. Zero. Zip.

This statement is a lie.

Your self-awareness does you credit.

An innovation of Admiral Daro'Xen, the Arc Pistol is a scaled-down Arc Projector that only requires thermal clips, to solve its power problems. The Arc Pistol uses a nonvisible laser to ionize the air and create a path for a high-ampere electric shock. For a more damaging blast, it can be charged up.

A pistol-sized heavy weapon... yeah, sounds much less advanced than human... Avenger rifles?

Arc-projecter?
A Cerberus weapon?

Turned into a small pistol that is way more badass and effective? 

Badass?
No, thing is ugly.
Effective? Just another heavy pistol and can't jump to other targets.
And it's still based on Human technology.

[Dextro Milk]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Badass?
No, thing is ugly.

Something called an opinion, hurrr durr dee durr...

Effective? Just another heavy pistol and can't jump to other targets.

It is one of the best pistols in the game, fyi.

And it's still based on Human technology.

So what? Xen took a huge weapon and turned it into a pistol sized death stick.

Modifié par Dextro Milk, 17 juillet 2013 - 05:50 .

[HellbirdIV]

Yeah I don't know why you'd say the Arc Pistol is more effective, I mean it's really not.

The Arc Projector is incredibly powerful against clusters of synthetic enemies - hey, kind of like the Reegar carbine - whereas the Arc Pistol's only real benefit is being able to charge it up for a single powerful shot... which is pointless if you're toting a Carnifex or Paladin that can do that with every shot and no charge time.

EDIT: 

And I'm not even getting into the grenade-launcher pistols like the Salarian Scorpion and Asari Acolyte.

EDIT2:

Hey I just noticed those are alliterative. The turians need one too. Turian Talon or something. Yeah.

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 17 juillet 2013 - 05:51 .