302 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

I never considered who was at fault for the whole Morning War, because at this point, it's irrelevant. Everyone involved, at least on the Quarians' part, are already dead anyway. I only considered the fact that the geth can be hacked a lot easier than organics can. When it comes down to it, I wouldn't fully trust their effectiveness in a war against advanced AI's that can hijack both synthetic and organic minds, if I had to pick a side to join me.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 16 juillet 2013 - 07:32 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Steelcan wrote...

The geth also do have experiences with organics who openly worked with them. You cannot say all the geth know us violence from organics. It simply isnt true. Both quarians who died defending the geth in the Morning War and even admirals want coexistence.

Conversely how many times did the geth ask for peace? Did they ever make it known they desired an end to the conflict? No.

But you're missing the point here. Just because some organics are willing to have peace doesn't mean that most will. This is proven right by history. The Geth also see that most of the organics that cooperated with them were likewise exterminated by their own people as well. The want for coexistence does not cancel out the reality that it's not likely to be reciprocated en masse. Look at the people who have the more progressive, liberal, and constructive opinions towards the Geth. Their opinion is rejected (violently in some cases as history proved) and they are viewed with suspicion and distrust.

Just because that there were (and are) organics who want peace does not give you a case for saying that the Geth are unjustified for adopting their approach. 

And for pity's sake. Read. What. I. Posted. 

Read about realism in IRT. Read about the separate approaches. Read Thomas Hobbes. Read Machiavelli. Read Thucydides.

It would be entirely wasted effort on the Geth's part. The Geth don't ask for peace, because they know they aren't going to get in return. They have experience and perspective for this. The people who would accept peace or coexistence are outliers. Nearly non-existant. They fear the Geth, so they iniate alliances to fight them. They arm themselves to fight them. They outlaw experimenting and creating synthetic life that is capable of sapience. The Geth aren't going to risk their livlihood by taking maybe's and want's. Would you? It's realism.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 16 juillet 2013 - 07:46 .

[sharkboy421]

Steelcan wrote...

@Sharkboy
1. I guess the geth forgot about the quarians who died helping them, or the envoys they shot down

2. The true geth are the ones who murdered billions.

3. Then they are idiots. They let the heretics leave knowing that their beliefs would force them into war with organics. They only cared when the heretics threatened them

4. Yes incredibly stupid. I'll correct that mistake

5. The quarians are needed for support, not frontline fighting.

1.  ME3 shows us they definitely did not forget the quarians who died helping them.  In fact even I think the Consensus misson was a bit too heavy in painting the geth in a sympathetic light.  As far as envoys, my interpretation of all 3 games has been that the quarians never tried to talk and only initiated contact with the intent of armed conflict.

2.  Absolutely yes.  They did so in response when the quarians tried to do the same.  Again, the geth are not innocent.  But at the time they were still "learning" and had only basic higher-reasoning abilities.  So they reacted to the mortal danger in a very logical, mechanical way; kill those that are trying to kill you.  Brutal and not very sympathetic, but I understand where it came from.

3.  They did probably know letting the heretics leave would cause friction, but what were they supposed to do?  The geth very highly value self-determination and as Legion tells us, the true geth knew the heretics reasons completely and let them go in accordance with their own beliefs.  I doubt they knew exactly what Sovereign wanted or what his true motives were when he first contacted them.  But then again, I do not remember reading any detailed accounts of that time I could be mistaken.

4.  I'm not sure how to respond to you here.  They made a mistake because of quarian aggression.  Had they not been attacked the geth would likely never have even considered contacting the reapers.

5.  While the Allied forces certainly have enough infantry between the main council races and the krogan, I feel their naval presence is some what lacking as the only fleets of any significane are the Hierarchy and Alliance.  The geth armada is easily the pier of the Hierarchy which is considered to be the strongest.  Also the in-game narrative seems to suggest they are looking at the Migrant Fleet in terms of combat not support, however I could have once again misinterpreted.

I feel like you and I could go back and forth forever.  So perhaps we should just agree to disagree Steelcan? 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Dextro Milk wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...
Just curious, was there a point to bait him like that, or do you get off on mis-quoting people?

I quite enjoy the hypocrisy in this thread from the pro-geth side.

Yes, I was baiting him. Does that bother you?

Just think it was rather uncalled for. You seem to put his name up in the "Wall of Shame" enough... When he is only defending the race he loves, which can be said about what you do with Miranda and Cerberus. 

But I also don't obnoxiously run around at every point getting pissed off whenever someone holds a negative opinion of Tali or the Quarians. I don't pretend that everyone loves Miranda or admires and respects Cerberus like I do. In fact, I acknoweldge that I am in a distinct minority in both cases. I will support and argue for both, but I won't get upset or take it personally when people do voice their disapproval or dislike. 

I'm secure enough in my opinions that I don't need to worry about anyone else taking them away from me.

[Dextro Milk]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...
Just curious, was there a point to bait him like that, or do you get off on mis-quoting people?

I quite enjoy the hypocrisy in this thread from the pro-geth side.

Yes, I was baiting him. Does that bother you?

Just think it was rather uncalled for. You seem to put his name up in the "Wall of Shame" enough... When he is only defending the race he loves, which can be said about what you do with Miranda and Cerberus. 

But I also don't obnoxiously run around at every point getting pissed off whenever someone holds a negative opinion of Tali or the Quarians. I don't pretend that everyone loves Miranda or admires and respects Cerberus like I do. In fact, I acknoweldge that I am in a distinct minority in both cases. I will support and argue for both, but I won't get upset or take it personally when people do voice their disapproval or dislike. 

I'm secure enough in my opinions that I don't need to worry about anyone else taking them away from me.

Or maybe you shouldn't run around spouting how you love to headcanon Tali getting ripped apart alive? You know, people don't usually like that... 

[Steelcan]

1. Then you are just wrong. Its part of canon that envoys were sent and shot down without any contact

2. They didnt just kill those who were trying to kill them, they killed billions of people the majority of whom were likely civilians.

5. "Lose the supply lines and you lose the war everytime"

But you are right, enough.

[KaiserShep]

lol I never did understand that want for Tali to die some kind of gruesome dismemberment.

[Dextro Milk]

KaiserShep wrote...

lol I never did understand that want for Tali to die some kind of gruesome dismemberment.

My avatar wants a word with MassivelyDeffective's headcanon tbh

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Dextro Milk wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Dextro Milk wrote...
Just curious, was there a point to bait him like that, or do you get off on mis-quoting people?

I quite enjoy the hypocrisy in this thread from the pro-geth side.

Yes, I was baiting him. Does that bother you?

Just think it was rather uncalled for. You seem to put his name up in the "Wall of Shame" enough... When he is only defending the race he loves, which can be said about what you do with Miranda and Cerberus. 

But I also don't obnoxiously run around at every point getting pissed off whenever someone holds a negative opinion of Tali or the Quarians. I don't pretend that everyone loves Miranda or admires and respects Cerberus like I do. In fact, I acknoweldge that I am in a distinct minority in both cases. I will support and argue for both, but I won't get upset or take it personally when people do voice their disapproval or dislike. 

I'm secure enough in my opinions that I don't need to worry about anyone else taking them away from me.

Or maybe you shouldn't run around spouting how you love to headcanon Tali getting ripped apart alive? You know, people don't usually like that... 

I don't run around and spout that:

There was a thread. It asked about who survived in my game, and I also reasonably imagine who would survive in my headcanon.

I answered the thread matter-of-factly. I was obliging the OP. I don't go around spewing that in Quarian/Geth threads, or even in general threads.

If people don't like my opinions, that's their issue to deal with. I don't know why they'd worry about what I think of their LI. 

And that goes for more than just Tali fans. That goes for anyone really. I've had people get upset because I don't think Garrus is my Shepard's best friend. I've had people get upset that I don't view Liara as my Shepard's friend.  

As much as I dislike Tali, she's really got nothing on Ashley.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 16 juillet 2013 - 07:46 .

[ShepnTali]

I just do whatever my Tali wali poopsie doodle wants me to do. Wax a geth? Ok honey bunny shnookie wookums. *the bait is set*

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Dextro Milk wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

lol I never did understand that want for Tali to die some kind of gruesome dismemberment.

My avatar wants a word with MassivelyDeffective's headcanon tbh

Mass Defective... yeah, probably. 

I probably have a fundamentally different thought process than most people. But then most people are fundamentally different from everyone else in some way.

[Sir DeLoria]

KaiserShep wrote...

lol I never did understand that want for Tali to die some kind of gruesome dismemberment.

Some people are special.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

ShepnTali wrote...

I just do whatever my Tali wali poopsie doodle wants me to do. Wax a geth? Ok honey bunny shnookie wookums. *the bait is set*

*Respect*

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Necanor wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

lol I never did understand that want for Tali to die some kind of gruesome dismemberment.

Some people are special.

I really hope you don't mean that in the way I think you do.

I might have to take offense and report you if you do.

[Dextro Milk]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I think it's pretty creepy to imagine fictional characters being torn apart. Perhaps you should seek a therapist.

My thoughts exactly.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I think it's pretty creepy to imagine fictional characters being torn apart. Perhaps you should seek a therapist.

I think I'm quite fine. It's a perk of mine.

[Dextro Milk]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I think it's pretty creepy to imagine fictional characters being torn apart. Perhaps you should seek a therapist.

I think I'm quite fine. It's a perk of mine.

I bet Hitler thought he was fine too.

Yeah, Godwin.

[Iakus]

Steelcan wrote...

Dignitaries seeking peace, shot down without a radio hail

When?  Where?  Are you sure that wasn't the Heretics?   Legion said that every confrontation between geth and quarians has ended wit hthe quarians attacking first.

And many of the ships use cutting edge technoligy

What kind of technology?  Weapons?  Barriers?  Coffee makers?

"The turians have more dreadnoughts, Their overall military force is larger than Heavy Fleet's by far.  But before this war began, we jury-rigged every quarian ship in the flotilla for battle.  Even our liveships have cannons"

What if the Reapers instead put the hub for controlling them not in a system with an entire enemy fleet in it?

And what if the Reapers seeded indoctrination devices around the Citadel, Tuchanka, or Sur'Kesh?

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas

Modifié par iakus, 16 juillet 2013 - 07:52 .

[KaiserShep]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I think it's pretty creepy to imagine fictional characters being torn apart. Perhaps you should seek a therapist.

I did kind of imagine Kai Leng dying the way Conrad Verner does if you pick certain options in Mass Effect 2. Falling from the skycar, getting hit by other skycars, and then falling into some kind of turbine. That'd be pretty sweet, you must admit. 

[Sir DeLoria]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

lol I never did understand that want for Tali to die some kind of gruesome dismemberment.

Some people are special.

I really hope you don't mean that in the way I think you do.

I might have to take offense and report you if you do.

Why should I? Special just defines someone out of the ordinary, which you kinda are. No offense against disabled people.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Necanor wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

lol I never did understand that want for Tali to die some kind of gruesome dismemberment.

Some people are special.

I really hope you don't mean that in the way I think you do.

I might have to take offense and report you if you do.

Why should I? Special just defines someone out of the ordinary, which you kinda are. No offense against disabled people.

Are you implying that I'm disabled? 

[wolfhowwl]

KaiserShep wrote...

lol I never did understand that want for Tali to die some kind of gruesome dismemberment.

You see the same stuff about other characters too, "drowning in fountains of blue blood" comes to mind.

In this case, they probably just really don't like the Talimancers who worked very hard to earn their reputation...and are childishly trying to troll them.

[Nightwriter]

Peace peace love peace love and peace peace peace love symbiosis PEACE.

[Sir DeLoria]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Are you implying that I'm disabled? 

<_