17 réponses à ce sujet

[DarthLaxian]

Hey,

I have just been playing ME1 one again (because I wanted to check out the DLC) and it occured to me, that there is ONE BIG PLOTHOLE:

The Council does have an Asari member (Tevos) of course, so why was there no Option of having Shepards mind read by her? (it is quite illogical - and if you convince her, then you have one stable voice in the Council for the rest of the games...quite stupid actually, because at least my Sheppard would offer that (either in private with the councilor, if that can be arranged or in session or when delivering a report) imidiately after getting the cipher (!) - hell if Liara (who is quite young for an Asari can see those memories (she does view them after all) then any Asari should be able to (much less a Matriarch...) - and if someone says "they need the cipher, too", then why not bring Shiala along

...

greetings LAX

[Secretlyapotato]

Because she doesn't know anything about it so she'd be useless. Liara can make things out since she's an expert on protheans and also conveniently on the ship, and Shiala had information about the cipher or whatever and transfered it to Shepard.

Modifié par Secretlyapotato, 17 juillet 2013 - 01:09 .

[Sanunes]

Shhh... around here Mass Effect 1 is perfect don't ruin it for them.

All kidding aside its something I wondered myself or why it didn't happen in Mass Effect 2 to explain the Collector Threat. Part of it is we really don't know much about how it works, but to me Liara was reading Shepard's thoughts at the end of each Primary mission to see what was going on and Shiala was able to transfer completely unknown information to Shepard and between Saren and the Thorian so I don't understand why it wouldn't have worked that way.

[Secretlyapotato]

BobtheReaper wrote...

Why do asari have vaginas?

It's not like they'd need them.

Where's the baby/egg/whatever gonna come out of?

[DarthLaxian]

well - they do: for giving birth and for getting rid of liquid waste (urine), they would not need to be functional otherwise...maybe they aren't and they just indulge their partners? - but on the other hand, they - SPOILER (but needed and no major plot thing!) - they were more or less genetically engineered by the Protheans (sex-slaves and fighters? - who knows) they might have thought something like that would make the lives of their creation better (even more so as the Asari after all can mate with all races we know - and for many of them sex is a physical thing and it is needed to keep a relationship healthy)

as for giving the cipher to Sheppard: i noted that one (take Shiala along - she can give Tevos the Cipher...hell even without it, the images are disturbing enough to provoke a reaction (not the one you want maybe...also Sheppard could make at least enough sense of them - without the Cipher - to say it was annihilation or at least something along those lines))

greetings LAX
ps: i don't know anyone who says ME1 is perfect - for that matter i do not know a perfect video game at all - it is very good and it has a better over all mood (hell, back then i loved taking stroll on the Citadel it was just nice - in ME3 i do not want to stroll anywhere...i hate those dark and moody games and movies - if i want that i buy a plane-ticket into Afghanistan or Syria...and that is what kills ME3 for me (among many many other things that could fill pages and that is if i only note them down - without explaining the why, how etc...with only notes, i would barely get a page for both ME1 and 2)) and that is what makes a good game (games will have flaws as long as humanity makes them at least - we can't achieve perfection, but we can try hard and that is what bioware stopped doing in Dragon Age 2 (and then continued in SWTOR and ME3)

Modifié par DarthLaxian, 17 juillet 2013 - 02:11 .

[Sanunes]

DarthLaxian wrote...

ps: i don't know anyone who says ME1 is perfect - for that matter i do not know a perfect video game at all - it is very good and it has a better over all mood (hell, back then i loved taking stroll on the Citadel it was just nice - in ME3 i do not want to stroll anywhere...i hate those dark and moody games and movies - if i want that i buy a plane-ticket into Afghanistan or Syria...and that is what kills ME3 for me (among many many other things that could fill pages and that is if i only note them down - without explaining the why, how etc...with only notes, i would barely get a page for both ME1 and 2)) and that is what makes a good game (games will have flaws as long as humanity makes them at least - we can't achieve perfection, but we can try hard and that is what bioware stopped doing in Dragon Age 2 (and then continued in SWTOR and ME3)

I wasn't being serious.

[DarthLaxian]

BobtheReaper wrote...

Secretlyapotato wrote...

BobtheReaper wrote...

Why do asari have vaginas?

It's not like they'd need them.

Where's the baby/egg/whatever gonna come out of?

Their tentacles open up, duh.

firstly:

those are part of the skull and thus non-flexible

secondly:

please abstain/refrain/stop trying to derail my thread - i want a normal discussion and this is - way - off-topic!

greetings LAX

[AustereLemur799]

Apologies in advance if I've included any spoilers that violate the rules of this forum (I usually go on the other one because I don't need to worry about what information I divulge).

I guess really this is just down to role-playing more than anything else.

Firstly Shiala could be dead depending on Shepard's choices on Feros. However, you are correct in that Liara could possess the Cipher from Shepard (SPOILER for ME: Paragon Lost - I haven't seen it but I seem to remember reading that the main asari character in the film happens to be Liara's protegee or something, and she is able to access some Prothean device on the colony in the film, I suppose because she must have the Cipher).

I see no reason why Councillor Tevos doesn't meld with Shepard, other than it being Shepard's choice. Melding is uncomfotable/an ordeal etc. Nevertheless you have to remember that the Council do agree with Shepard by the end of ME1 and believe in the Reapers etc. It's only afterwards (when Shepard dies) that the Council revert. The thing is that they do know the truth about the Reapers; they were only trying to cover it up to protect people and, I suppose, to sleep easier at night (it's easier to bury your head in the sand and ignore all your problems in the hope that they'll go away!).

I hope this helps in some way.

[Display Name Owner]

Because, as has been said, she knows nothing about Prothean history or society beyond the standard "they left the Relays and the Citadel" stuff. But moreover, just because she can see what Shep sees wouldn't make it any more true. No one ever disputes the fact that Shepard saw something, only that he understood it. The Beacon wasn't supposed to be used the way it was, in fact it's a miracle Shep even survived - there's still no way of knowing if he interpreted it properly. All she'd get out of melding is the vision the way he saw it, which wasn't necessarily the right way of seeing it, as far as the Council's concerned.

[HellbirdIV]

I do approve of the idea of just having Shepard meld with Liara, Shiala and Tevos in rapid succession, or all at the same time.

You could also mind meld to share the truth about the Reapers and Protheans, I guess, but I mean... Priorities.

[Jonata]

I think it's a very simple case of having a more plot-appropriate moment in the story itself than a more logical one. It's not a "plothole" (I actually hate people who cares about "plothole", dramatic purpose is much more important, but whatever) but more a thematic expedient. It's kinda like the old "Why didn't they used the giant eagles?" from LOTR.

Liara was one of the (if not THE) most important squadmate of the first game and that moment was necessary to both explain how Asari mind-melding works and to introduce her to the player as a somehow very, very interesting character. You can like her or hate her but that was the purpose of that scene.

Here's a more important question: can Asari mind-meld be used to pilot giant robots?

[DarthLaxian]

you don't care if the plot of anything (be it movie, book or game) can be brought crashing down because something simple was overlooked (hell, put yourself in Sheppards shoes - wouldn't you do almost anything to convince the council of the reapers existence, because you know you need there help and there is very little time to prepare the galaxy (hell: my sheppard would not have gone after Geth remnants with the reapers knocking and thus no collectors just jumping in and killing him))?

strange thinking IMHO - that is like not caring if the house you life in can collapse any minute, if someone pulls out an easily accessible brick from a wall (!)

greetings LAX
ps: for those saying she could not understand the vision: sheppard has the cipher, so she could just take that from him, too (it would not be as easy as taking that from Shiala, as Sheppard is no Asari, but it would work non the less)

[AustereLemur799]

DarthLaxian wrote...

you don't care if the plot of anything (be it movie, book or game) can be brought crashing down because something simple was overlooked (hell, put yourself in Sheppards shoes - wouldn't you do almost anything to convince the council of the reapers existence, because you know you need there help and there is very little time to prepare the galaxy (hell: my sheppard would not have gone after Geth remnants with the reapers knocking and thus no collectors just jumping in and killing him))?

strange thinking IMHO - that is like not caring if the house you life in can collapse any minute, if someone pulls out an easily accessible brick from a wall (!)

greetings LAX
ps: for those saying she could not understand the vision: sheppard has the cipher, so she could just take that from him, too (it would not be as easy as taking that from Shiala, as Sheppard is no Asari, but it would work non the less)

Like I said: role-playing. Your Shep would do X while another's would do Y.

The Council are knee-jerking because they're scared. Instead of asking people to put themselves in Shep's shoes; ask them to be in the Council's.

Maybe your Shep wouldn't have gone after Geth remnants, but mine would've because she's loyal to the Council and to the Alliance. As far as anyone knew at the time of ME1; the geth were in league with the Reapers. Saren was just the organic agent between the two.

At the time; nothing else was known about the Reapers so the geth would've been the only lead - obviously my Shep would've followed it up.

The Collectors weren't widely known to the Alliance due to humanity not really having an official presence in the Terminus Systems. During the prologue mission on Freedom's Progress in ME2; Shepard's dialogue indicates that she/he knows nothing about the Collectors at all.

[Han Shot First]

BobtheReaper wrote...

Why do asari have vaginas?

It's not like they'd need them.

Shepard needs them.

[AlexMBrennan]

The Council does have an Asari member (Tevos) of course, so why was there no Option of having Shepards mind read by her?

They do not doubt Shepard's vision, but the conclusion that it means that there is an imminent threat from Elder Space Gods: The existence of Independence Day does not prove the existence of aliens.

[HellbirdIV]

I guess asari Mind Melds work differently from Vulcan ones - for one, we know that asari can't forcibly meld with others, it's a mutual exchange, whereas Vulcans can meld with someone to essentially get a confession out of them.

This could mean that any information shared through a meld would be considered too unreliable to hold legally. Thus, the Council can't act on visions regardless as the shared information would only be Shepard's own witness account, not necessarily objective facts.