706 réponses à ce sujet

[Teddie Sage]

I didn't care for the geth. EDI, however, was one of my favourite characters. Citadel DLC made me love her even more.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Liara does not have any kind of plot armor. These complaints are ridiculous. There's no evidence at all proving Liara was in a position of certain death.

Bombs tend to kill people. Bombs, elite mercenary organizations and SPECTRES, kill more.  She should have died, she didnt, plot armor.

[David7204]

General Slotts wrote...

How come whenever the Liara plot armor discussion happens nobody ever brings up the fact that she was written out of ME2 for no real reason, just to avoid this big suicide mission taking place.

How is that relevant?

Modifié par David7204, 21 juillet 2013 - 10:53 .

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

Liara does not have any kind of plot armor. These complaints are ridiculous. There's no evidence at all proving Liara was in a position of certain death.

Liara has a specific role in the story, that could of be easily written for others, but they choose to keep her "character" invunerable till EC was released.  Until then, it seems the story was written around or better yet, twisted in her favour. 

Modifié par spirosz, 21 juillet 2013 - 10:54 .

[Mr.House]

General Slotts wrote...

How come whenever the Liara plot armor discussion happens nobody ever brings up the fact that she was written out of ME2 for no real reason, just to avoid this big suicide mission taking place.

To be fair, so was Ash/Kaidan and Wrex. So it's not just Liara who had that plot armor in ME2.

[SlottsMachine]

David7204 wrote...

General Slotts wrote...

How come whenever the Liara plot armor discussion happens nobody ever brings up the fact that she was written out of ME2 for no real reason, just to avoid this big suicide mission taking place.

How is that relevant?

how is any of this relevant?

[Mr.House]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Also, I think David should play DA:O.

[David7204]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Liara does not have any kind of plot armor. These complaints are ridiculous. There's no evidence at all proving Liara was in a position of certain death.

Bombs tend to kill people. Bombs, elite mercenary organizations and SPECTRES, kill more.  She should have died, she didnt, plot armor.

And Liara is a skilled and experienced combatant with shields and armor. The same could be said of any squadmate. The same could be said of any character in any work of fiction with significant violence.

It's not plot armor.

Modifié par David7204, 21 juillet 2013 - 10:55 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

You're making an existential fallacy here. 'Not everyone kills him off in their game because they don't like him, because he is better in the next game'. I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue with by that statement, By the nature of being able to kill him off at the end of ME2, he is not a forced squadmate, since you do not have to have him in your game to progress the story at every point.

Plus, you don't have to recruit him in ME1. 

He is a forced squadmate in ME2 and in ME you need Garrus or Wrex, you have no choice. You must pick one. That is forced. Liara can also die, if dying makes a character not forced then by your example, Liara is also not a forced squadmate because she can die, it does not matter how it happens. You are cherry picking now.

Now you just made a contextomy fallacy here; Neither squadmate is forced on you. One or the other (or both), it isn't forced in the way I'm talking about. The meat of your fallacy is saying that since Liara can die in the ending, it means that she is not a forced squadmate. You're making an inconsistant comparison here (and misrepresenting my example): She can neither be turned down, killed at any point prior to events of the game going beyond the players control at the end, nor can you mean or rude to her. You have to have her, and you have to be nice to her, throughout the entire trilogy. That she can die at the very end does not negate that she is forced for the entire journey up to the end.

[David7204]

spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Liara does not have any kind of plot armor. These complaints are ridiculous. There's no evidence at all proving Liara was in a position of certain death.

Liara has a specific role in the story, that could of be easily written for others, but they choose to keep her "character" invunerable till EC was released.  Until then, it seems the story was written around or better yet, twisted in her favour. 

What is this supposed to prove or indicate?

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Liara does not have any kind of plot armor. These complaints are ridiculous. There's no evidence at all proving Liara was in a position of certain death.

Bombs tend to kill people. Bombs, elite mercenary organizations and SPECTRES, kill more.  She should have died, she didnt, plot armor.

And Liara is skilled and experiences combatant with shields and armor. The same could be said of any squadmate. The same could be said of any character in any work of fiction with significant violence.

It's not plot armor.

 
Until vanilla game, it was plot "resistence", haha. 

[Steelcan]

Barquiel wrote...


You aren't capable of being mean to Garrus (or Joker in ME2 for example) or treating him like crap. And claiming that you aren't able to dictate your relationship with her is also wrong. As far as I know Liara is the only character whose goodbye scene in London changes depending on how you have treated her during the game.

James's London exchange changes I know for sure.

And Garrus can be killed, Liara cannot.

[Mr.House]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Liara does not have any kind of plot armor. These complaints are ridiculous. There's no evidence at all proving Liara was in a position of certain death.

Bombs tend to kill people. Bombs, elite mercenary organizations and SPECTRES, kill more.  She should have died, she didnt, plot armor.

Garrus had three elite merc groups after him, he however survives just in time for Shepard to get there. What was keeping him alive? Plot armor.

[David7204]

That's not plot armor either. Liara does not have plot armor. Garrus does not have plot armor.

Modifié par David7204, 21 juillet 2013 - 10:57 .

[SlottsMachine]

Mr.House wrote...

General Slotts wrote...

How come whenever the Liara plot armor discussion happens nobody ever brings up the fact that she was written out of ME2 for no real reason, just to avoid this big suicide mission taking place.

To be fair, so was Ash/Kaidan and Wrex. So it's not just Liara who had that plot armor in ME2.

That's true. Its pretty obvious they did it because they had more in store for her though. 

[Mr.House]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

You're making an existential fallacy here. 'Not everyone kills him off in their game because they don't like him, because he is better in the next game'. I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue with by that statement, By the nature of being able to kill him off at the end of ME2, he is not a forced squadmate, since you do not have to have him in your game to progress the story at every point.

Plus, you don't have to recruit him in ME1. 

He is a forced squadmate in ME2 and in ME you need Garrus or Wrex, you have no choice. You must pick one. That is forced. Liara can also die, if dying makes a character not forced then by your example, Liara is also not a forced squadmate because she can die, it does not matter how it happens. You are cherry picking now.

Now you just made a contextomy fallacy here; Neither squadmate is forced on you. One or the other (or both), it isn't forced in the way I'm talking about. The meat of your fallacy is saying that since Liara can die in the ending, it means that she is not a forced squadmate. You're making an inconsistant comparison here (and misrepresenting my example): She can neither be turned down, killed at any point prior to events of the game going beyond the players control at the end, nor can you mean or rude to her. You have to have her, and you have to be nice to her, throughout the entire trilogy. That she can die at the very end does not negate that she is forced for the entire journey up to the end.

You are only forced to be nice to her in ME3. I've already done a pt in the past where my Shepard was a ass to Liara in ME1/2. It can be done.

[spirosz]

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Liara does not have any kind of plot armor. These complaints are ridiculous. There's no evidence at all proving Liara was in a position of certain death.

Bombs tend to kill people. Bombs, elite mercenary organizations and SPECTRES, kill more.  She should have died, she didnt, plot armor.

Garrus had three elite merc groups after him, he however survives just in time for Shepard to get there. What was keeping him alive? Plot armor.

His skills.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Liara does not have any kind of plot armor. These complaints are ridiculous. There's no evidence at all proving Liara was in a position of certain death.

Bombs tend to kill people. Bombs, elite mercenary organizations and SPECTRES, kill more.  She should have died, she didnt, plot armor.

And Liara is a skilled and experienced combatant with shields and armor. The same could be said of any squadmate. The same could be said of any character in any work of fiction with significant violence.

It's not plot armor.

.  Shields and armor is the best excuse you can come up with?  Why didnt Vido Santiago survive his burning to death?  He had on shields and armor.  Shields and armor dont make you invincible, and I doubt theyd help you against an explosion.

[Mr.House]

David7204 wrote...

That's not plot armor either. Liara does not have plot armor. Garrus does not have plot armor.

Yes they do. To beleive Liara does not have plot armor is just being extreamly bias.

[Sir DeLoria]

Mr.House wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Liara does not have any kind of plot armor. These complaints are ridiculous. There's no evidence at all proving Liara was in a position of certain death.

Bombs tend to kill people. Bombs, elite mercenary organizations and SPECTRES, kill more.  She should have died, she didnt, plot armor.

Garrus had three elite merc groups after him, he however survives just in time for Shepard to get there. What was keeping him alive? Plot armor.

But he can be killed later, Liara can't. Garrus has plot armor, but far less than Liara.

[DeinonSlayer]

IN ANY CASE:


This could go on all day...

[SlottsMachine]

David7204 wrote...

That's not plot armor either. Liara does not have plot armor. Garrus does not have plot armor.

Could you give some examples of "plot armor" for which we can learn from, teacher?