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#351
teh DRUMPf!!

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David7204 wrote...

That's moronic. By that definition, the existence of every character in every story is plot armor.


No, it's only plot-armor if the plot is written such that that character must survive.

Which LotSB is.

Liara has to survive the bombing because the writers want her to become the Shadow Broker at the end of the story. They could have written the story differently, such that TIM sends him on this mission instead and Shepard has a choice to give it to him/not. But no, Liara becomes 'broker and it's canon because the plot (read: writers) demand it.



CronoDragoon wrote...

This plot armor is unique to Liara how? Or are you just pointing out that all characters have plot armor until they don't?


No, -_- is just trying to deny the existence of any kind of plot-armor on Liara.

#352
Guest_Cthulhu42_*

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Mr.House wrote...

spirosz wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Why are people missing the big picture? :/


I heard you took a picture inside a picture that was on top of a picture. 

Wait what.

Exactly.

#353
Dextro Milk

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Hmm, is this more David garbage type of a thread?... -_-

#354
Jorji Costava

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What exactly is this debate supposed to be about? Is it whether or not every squadmate should be killable? Or is it whether or not we should bewilling to accept auto-characterization, like Shepard being friends with a character even if we don't like that character? The goalposts seem to be ever-shifting. Also, didn't this debate already hijack this thread?

Toreturn to the topic of the OP, I guess I'm going to be a bit of a partypooper here. I skip the romances, as I think these subplots have a bit of way to go to convince me. For one, I've always felt that the NPC's should get bored of Shepard; it's always themhaving to talk about their stories to him or her, and never the other way around. That seems like a pretty one-sided way to conduct conversation, and makes it hard to see what draws the character to Shepard, other than the fact that Shepard is the PC, or the Hero of the Citadel, etc. That's hardly the basis for a healthy relationship.


Suppose you could have a scene where somebody asks Shepard something like "What was it like on Torfan?" (I know that's cheesy action movie dialogue. Shut up!). Shepard could then do a spiel describing what Torfan (or Akuze or the Blitz) was like, and the player could interject at various points to dictate the general tenor ofthe description (think of the big speeches that Shepard gives after taking command of the Normandy in ME1, or during the suicide mission in ME2).

Thus, you could either say something like "It was horrible, and I hope I never have to make decisions like that again" or "It was totally worth it to kill those Batarian SOBs." Some NPC's might be freaked out by you telling them that killing Batarians is totally worth losing most of your unit, while others might be intrigued by your badassery. The only problem is that it would probably get quite boring to tell the Torfan story eight or nine times for every NPC. But thepoint is to do something to make the dynamic between PC and NPC more give-and-take, instead of "Do favors/say nice things to NPC, get sex before final mission as reward."

Second, there ought to be more ways for these characters to turn Sheparddown. Tali and Garrus should probably not be romancing pro-human radical Shepard, Miranda probably wouldn't want to have much to do with boy-scout Shepard, etc. In order to make the mechanic fully convincing, you'd probably want to make it possible for NPC's to turn down Shepard on the basis of much more trivial reasons than this (an irritating personality, unfunny jokes, etc.). After all, I don't say yes to everyone who I don't currently suspect of having committed war crimes orsomething like that. "Well, you're not on trial at the Hague right now,so why don't we go out on a date?"

EDIT: Fixed paragraphs

Modifié par osbornep, 21 juillet 2013 - 11:11 .


#355
Steelcan

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CronoDragoon wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

"They just took out three floors to make sure she is dead"
"Did you find your friend's body"



The explosion - which was only 1/2 it's strength due to the other bomb being a dud - didn't even kill the damn salarian. Tela and her minion had to shoot him.

Moreover, it's never actually confirmed Liara is there. They blow up the building because they think she's meeting with the salarian, but it's never explicitly mentioned that she's there.

So, there's two good reasons for her being alive. Pick one.

She was on the same floor as her contact, proven by Shepard's dialogue, the bomb that did kill numerous other people

#356
SlottsMachine

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Dextro Milk wrote...

Hmm, is this more David garbage type of a thread?... -_-


In a way. We're having loads more fun this time though. 

#357
David7204

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If you think you can seriously argue that Liara has plot armor, by all means, here's the plot armor page. See how long it lasts. You'll find that unlike the BSN, not everyone is so easily convinced by ridiculous arguments.

#358
Nole

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What's the problem with Liara having plot-armor? She's the best character in the game.

#359
Dextro Milk

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David7204 wrote...

If you think you can seriously argue that Liara has plot armor, by all means, here's the plot armor page. See how long it lasts. You'll find that unlike the BSN, not everyone is so easily convinced by ridiculous arguments.

Did you write that page too? :lol:

#360
Steelcan

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David7204 wrote...

If you think you can seriously argue that Liara has plot armor, by all means, here's the plot armor page. See how long it lasts. You'll find that unlike the BSN, not everyone is so easily convinced by ridiculous arguments.

You probably already editted it to remove your waifu.

#361
Mr.House

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Place needs more waifu loving.

#362
Steelcan

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Literally the first paragraph sums up our argument for Liara's plot armor.

#363
Guest_Cthulhu42_*

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Mr.House wrote...

Place needs more waifu loving.

I love Morrigan.

#364
SlottsMachine

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Jack has some sexy (plot?) armor.

#365
AresKeith

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Dextro Milk wrote...

David7204 wrote...

If you think you can seriously argue that Liara has plot armor, by all means, here's the plot armor page. See how long it lasts. You'll find that unlike the BSN, not everyone is so easily convinced by ridiculous arguments.

Did you write that page too? :lol:


Looks like his style lol

#366
teh DRUMPf!!

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Here...


If I call it writer-armor instead of plot-armor, will you stop denying it?

#367
MassivelyEffective0730

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David7204 wrote...

If you think you can seriously argue that Liara has plot armor, by all means, here's the plot armor page. See how long it lasts. You'll find that unlike the BSN, not everyone is so easily convinced by ridiculous arguments.


And here's the long awaited fallacy of false attribution. Using a very unqualified and very uncredible and very subjective source, for which anyone can go and write whatever the hell they want in whatever entry they choose (and for which we know that you do edit). 

This is not evidence. This is unidentified, false, and fabricated.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 21 juillet 2013 - 11:18 .


#368
Teddie Sage

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Well... Kaidan is my waifu if that counts.

#369
in it for the lolz

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By the Emperor's golden cutlery! this thread has derailed more then a derailed train.

#370
Mr.House

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I like how in that page Miranda with the seeker swarms is mentioned as plot armor but other extreme cases of plot armor are outright ignored. Page is bias I see.

#371
Steelcan

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Copied from the page, see how well Liara fits,


e main reason the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy is still in business (along with a handful of other tropes). Just by being the main character, the laws of the world seem to bend around the character in a more than figurative way. For some reason (and not even an explicit ability), just being the main character or on his team protects you from death, serious wounds, and generally any sort of harm until dramatically appropriate. Even psychological damage can be beaten by Plot Armor. Unless you're explicitly marked for death, or Tempting Fate.

The real reason, of course, is that the movie/book/game/etc. would be awfully short if the main character died the first time they should. But it can get somewhat unreal at times.

This trope is sometimes referred to as "Script Immunity" or a "Character Shield."

Note that this is specifically about cases where it's suggested (by way of Informed Ability, generally) that something should happen that would be very bad for the hero - but it tends to fall short as soon as he gets involved, for no given reason besides luck.

Novice viewers will often confuse plot armor with more justified survival explanations. If Superman survives a bullet to the eye, that's just him using his powers. Superman is Nigh Invulnerable. If Indiana Jones does, that's plot armor. (Bonus points if he isn't even blinded.)

#372
Teddie Sage

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Concerning Liara's plot shield, I think the impact of Thessia's aftermath would've been less dramatic without Liara or Samara in your team. Just my personal opinion.

#373
MassivelyEffective0730

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Mr.House wrote...

I like how in that page Miranda with the seeker swarms is mentioned as plot armor but other extreme cases of plot armor are outright ignored. Page is bias I see.


It's because David actually edits these pages (he's mentioned it before) and it can be inferred that he uses this uncredible and clearly biased source as proof.

It's completely fabricated evidence.

#374
AresKeith

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David play DA:O

#375
Mr.House

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AresKeith wrote...

David play DA:O