452 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

EntropicAngel wrote...

What I find amusing is how those people's sensationalist cries were nullified.

scha·den·freu·de/ˈʃɑdnˌfrɔɪdə/ noun
satisfaction or pleasure felt at someone else's misfortune.

And the only "mess" ME3 had, in terms of a new game, was multiple endings.

...and the sheer number of people who hate them.

Modifié par iakus, 18 juillet 2013 - 04:47 .

[Sanunes]

I just hope BioWare stops making design decisions around what the fans consider something important and makes the game they want to make. That is what made the previous games so much fun was because it wasn't designed by a committee. I am not sure how many people feel the way I do, but so many of the issues I see with Mass Effect 3 relate back to the comments people made about Mass Effect 2. They wanted numbers with the suicide mission, a story that is more connect to all the areas of the game instead of a bunch of side missions, they wanted all their favorite companions to return, and there are probably other. After shoehorning those ideas into the game the story took a major hit.

Modifié par Sanunes, 18 juillet 2013 - 04:48 .

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

iakus wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

What I find amusing is how those people's sensationalist cries were nullified.

scha·den·freu·de/ˈʃɑdnˌfrɔɪdə/ noun
satisfaction or pleasure felt at someone else's misfortune.

And the only "mess" ME3 had, in terms of a new game, was multiple endings.

...and the sheer number of people who hate them.

these people are a lot fewer than you think

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

Oh and Bioware pulling a "You Chose Wrong" is generally considered a bad thing. 

Well, it certainly wouldn't be the first time they've done this.

See Red Cliffe, the Rachni, the Geth-Quarian conflict, etc.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

jtav wrote...

I've been playing BW games since KOTOR. ME1 has the dullest cast outside of the OC of NWN to the point where I have to forcibly remind myself to talk to them (ME3 isn't much better there by virtue of being stuck with people I didn't like the first time). The plot feels like warmed over KOTOR. Shepard is best here, but I find it weakest overall.

Very well said.

Although to its (very small) credit, ME1 cast>Baldur's Gate 1 cast.

[jtav]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

jtav wrote...

I've been playing BW games since KOTOR. ME1 has the dullest cast outside of the OC of NWN to the point where I have to forcibly remind myself to talk to them (ME3 isn't much better there by virtue of being stuck with people I didn't like the first time). The plot feels like warmed over KOTOR. Shepard is best here, but I find it weakest overall.

Very well said.

Although to its (very small) credit, ME1 cast>Baldur's Gate 1 cast.

Well, yes, but I never played BG without BG1NPC which livens things up considerably.

[Cainhurst Crow]

jtav wrote...

And I should watch TOS and TNG because I want to watch DS9? More to the point: I played BG2 first and the game still took time to explain what was going on and who these people were. And besides, a decent imported save is much less grim with fewer difficult choices than a non-import.

Well obviosuly becuase it worked to try and orientate you to the setting instead of being uncomprehensible to you, it's a horrible game, according to the mass effect fans.

And lord of the rings took time to explain everything you needed to know of the story in the films. Ir wasn't something you;d be completely lost in if you watched two towers or return of the king first instead of fellowship.

Watching the films, in any order, you could pick up the gist pretty quickly. The ring needs to be destroyed, these hobbits are trying to do it, sauron is the big bad of the movie, he has an army of orcs, aragorn is important, gimli's a dwarf, legolas is an elf, humans are screwed, ring wraiths equal bad news.

Not that much confusion unless you look into the smaller details, and like I said in my later post, people shouldn't need to pay a fandom tax just to try and enjoy the series, it should be able to give you a bit of exposition to get your orientated into the world your in, instead fo slamming you head first into a contextless mess that you needed to do every side quest and read every codex entry from the previous games to understand.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 18 juillet 2013 - 05:17 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

iakus wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Have you really expected anything different than a complete focus on newcomers? There is a reason so many of the acclaimed personalities escaped BioWare.

Well, since fan retention no longer seems to be a priority, you have a point there...

I love how yanick roy's statement of "Too soon to say, but we'll be sure to be friendly both to old fans and to newcomers." translates in your twisted little head as "Only focus completely on newcomers".

Maybe you should give the new generation of fans a chance to come into the series, and than out of a desire for more understanding go back to the old games if they want to , instead of constantly shutting them out and barring their entrance with a over 100 dollar fandom tax.

[Iakus]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

iakus wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Have you really expected anything different than a complete focus on newcomers? There is a reason so many of the acclaimed personalities escaped BioWare.

Well, since fan retention no longer seems to be a priority, you have a point there...

I love how yanick roy's statement of "Too soon to say, but we'll be sure to be friendly both to old fans and to newcomers." translates in your twisted little head as "Only focus completely on newcomers".

Maybe you should give the new generation of fans a chance to come into the series, and than out of a desire for more understanding go back to the old games if they want to , instead of constantly shutting them out and barring their entrance with a over 100 dollar fandom tax.

Man, you can't joke about anything anymore.

Particularly since I am on record as saying I want no canon established going into this next game.  Heck I'd rather not even have ME3 games be importable to the next one.  Best case scenerio it might win a few alienated fans back.

So believe it or not, a clean slate is in fact what I want, which would probably be the best interst for new players.

But claiming to be friendly to new and old fans brings flashbacks of ME3's "this is the best place to start" marketing.  Which ended up only confusing new fans and annoying old ones.  Do we really need a repeat of that?

[BaladasDemnevanni]

iakus wrote...

But claiming to be friendly to new and old fans brings flashbacks of ME3's "this is the best place to start" marketing.  Which ended up only confusing new fans and annoying old ones.  Do we really need a repeat of that?

No, but on the other hand, none of the issues I really had with ME3 stemmed from their efforts nominally at least to open Mass Effect up to new players.

The game was built pretty heavily on elements from both ME1 and ME2, both plots and characters, so that claim of "best place to start" really did ring hollow.

For all my criticisms of ME3, I never got the impression that concessions were made to acquire a new group of fans, James Vega aside, and I ended up enjoying him. It's not like they put all the ME1 and 2 characters on a bus to make room for a new cast.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 18 juillet 2013 - 05:55 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

iakus wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

iakus wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Have you really expected anything different than a complete focus on newcomers? There is a reason so many of the acclaimed personalities escaped BioWare.

Well, since fan retention no longer seems to be a priority, you have a point there...

I love how yanick roy's statement of "Too soon to say, but we'll be sure to be friendly both to old fans and to newcomers." translates in your twisted little head as "Only focus completely on newcomers".

Maybe you should give the new generation of fans a chance to come into the series, and than out of a desire for more understanding go back to the old games if they want to , instead of constantly shutting them out and barring their entrance with a over 100 dollar fandom tax.

Man, you can't joke about anything anymore.

Particularly since I am on record as saying I want no canon established going into this next game.  Heck I'd rather not even have ME3 games be importable to the next one.  Best case scenerio it might win a few alienated fans back.

So believe it or not, a clean slate is in fact what I want, which would probably be the best interst for new players.

But claiming to be friendly to new and old fans brings flashbacks of ME3's "this is the best place to start" marketing.  Which ended up only confusing new fans and annoying old ones.  Do we really need a repeat of that?

TBH I was more refering to Massakka than your point, but it was the one that got my attention and I was too lazy to go back and find Massakka's original post.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

What I'm most concerned about is ME4 having that same spin-off feeling that DA2 had. No returning characters, different setting, different game mechanics, different focus, different game in essence. If there is nothing about what made me enjoy the original games in the new ones, then what is the point of playing them?

New things, potentially?

Why do some people enjoy Legend of Korra, despite taking place 100 years after the last airbender?

Why do people enjoy KotOR 2, despite having a completely different tone/setting/characters/narrative than KotOR?

Even if there's little in comparison to the original, that doesn't negate there being the possibility of other things you enjoy.

Bioware's caught between a rock and a hard place on that one. They can't make a game too soon after ME3's ending, or risk having to canonize choices which will ****** everyone off whose choice lost out. But some people really want to see old faces/settings again.

I guess one potential is making ME4 about some concurrent plot during one of the other games, but I think many (myself included) would find that bland.

[Iakus]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

What I'm most concerned about is ME4 having that same spin-off feeling that DA2 had. No returning characters, different setting, different game mechanics, different focus, different game in essence. If there is nothing about what made me enjoy the original games in the new ones, then what is the point of playing them?

And that's the exact opposite for me.

I say keep the universe, the relays, teh worlds, the species, and populate it with an entirely new cast.

No Shepard
No Garrus
No Liara
No Tali
No James

All new story, all new cast, keep the Mass Effect trilogy as a self-contained story, and go do an entirely different one here.  Old fans get the same universe they're familiar with.  New fans don't have to worry about returning characters they've never met.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

iakus wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Have you really expected anything different than a complete focus on newcomers? There is a reason so many of the acclaimed personalities escaped BioWare.

Well, since fan retention no longer seems to be a priority, you have a point there...

I love how yanick roy's statement of "Too soon to say, but we'll be sure to be friendly both to old fans and to newcomers." translates in your twisted little head as "Only focus completely on newcomers".

Maybe you should give the new generation of fans a chance to come into the series, and than out of a desire for more understanding go back to the old games if they want to , instead of constantly shutting them out and barring their entrance with a over 100 dollar fandom tax.

Impossibru! Newcomers are the root of aall problems that afflict ME. Those filthy casuals..

Seriously though, this is a problem hardly confined to ME fandom. Go to any game forum and you'll find fans treating their games sacrosanct and looking down on newcomers as something despicable and a symbol to everything that's wrong with their precious franchise. 

[AlanC9]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

iakus wrote...

Oh and Bioware pulling a "You Chose Wrong" is generally considered a bad thing. 

Well, it certainly wouldn't be the first time they've done this.

See Red Cliffe, the Rachni, the Geth-Quarian conflict, etc.

Is this even in play? The non-canon endings wouldn't necessarily be non-canon because they were wrong. They might be non-canon because they were too good to make interesting sequels, for instance.  

[BaladasDemnevanni]

AlanC9 wrote...

Is this even in play? The non-canon endings wouldn't necessarily be non-canon because they were wrong. They might be non-canon because they were too good to make interesting sequels, for instance.  

I guess it depends on how you want to approach it.

If they see potential for more interesting stories going with certain canons, I really don't mind. It's the same reasoning why I'm against save imports for Dragon Age but want the Dark Ritual canonized: it has plot threads to consider for future games.

Similarly, I think Synthesis has the most potential for interesting storytelling. Personally, I'm less concerned with Bioware allowing for my chosen ending, which was control, than I am for them telling a good story in the future. I'm comfortable with looking at them both as alternate universes.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 18 juillet 2013 - 06:33 .

[Guy On The Moon]

pirate1802 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

iakus wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Have you really expected anything different than a complete focus on newcomers? There is a reason so many of the acclaimed personalities escaped BioWare.

Well, since fan retention no longer seems to be a priority, you have a point there...

I love how yanick roy's statement of "Too soon to say, but we'll be sure to be friendly both to old fans and to newcomers." translates in your twisted little head as "Only focus completely on newcomers".

Maybe you should give the new generation of fans a chance to come into the series, and than out of a desire for more understanding go back to the old games if they want to , instead of constantly shutting them out and barring their entrance with a over 100 dollar fandom tax.

Impossibru! Newcomers are the root of aall problems that afflict ME. Those filthy casuals..

Seriously though, this is a problem hardly confined to ME fandom. Go to any game forum and you'll find fans treating their games sacrosanct and looking down on newcomers as something despicable and a symbol to everything that's wrong with their precious franchise. 

Same reason why I hate people in Calc II who still ask questions about how to do the derivative of "x"

[TheProtheans]

Oh for frack sake, "gaymers".
What is the gaming world coming to, destroy the link.

Mass effect 4 was confirmed 4 years ago, old news.