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ANd ME4 confirmed


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#76
JamesFaith

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LucasShark wrote...

Frostbite for its part was designed to be a product of this generation in console gaming.  That means it is designed to focus on presentation, which is fine, but it is also one of the least relevant elements in a game like Mass Effect.  I'd also argue that it is one of the least relevant aspects to making a generally good game, since graphics and sound are presentation.  You can make a bad game look good, it will still be bad.


So you are claiming that because game would look good it would be automatically bad in other ways? Is there some secret causal nexus between graphic and overal quality of game? And since when is good looking game and good gameplay and story elemenets mutualy exclusive?

This is just another anti-ME4 paranoia covered by "technical argument". 

#77
AlanC9

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LucasShark wrote...
I've forgotten more about games than you probably know.  The fact that you can't understand that an engine has inherant strengths and weaknesses is proof of that. 

Purely on the fact that I have made 2d practice stuff using 3 different programming languages, I can say that using different tools under the hood will produce differing results.


If you're going to play the expert card, you gotta deliver the goods. What, exactly, can't the new engine do that can't be solved? Bio got Unreal 3 to do what they needed it to, right?

#78
Fixers0

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 Titles like the one posted in the link in the OP make me afraid, very afraid. Because as we could have all experienced with Mass Effect 3,  phrases like "Friendly to newcomers" is pretty much synonymous to: "the Veterans will be insulted" and "Carte blanche to retcon as we wish".

Modifié par Fixers0, 17 juillet 2013 - 04:28 .


#79
garrusfan1

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Fixers0 wrote...

 Titles like the one posted in the link in the OP make me afraid, very afraid. Because as we could have all experienced with Mass Effect 3,  phrases like "Friendly to newcomers" is pretty much synonymous to: "the Veterans will be insulted" and "Carte blanche to retcon as we wish".

to be fair they are not going to say this will be brutal to newcomers and if you didn't play ME1 ME2 or ME3 you are gonna have a really hard time with this game. also they said that about ME3 and I thought that if you never played ME2 or ME3 it would be a pain in the a**

#80
Cainhurst Crow

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New IP game has kotor's team working on it?

I am now intrigued.

Also, don't know why yanick roy is in the article, he hasn't given any new information out. Just a "if that's the direction we go, than maybe we will"

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 17 juillet 2013 - 04:36 .


#81
ShepnTali

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Fixers0 wrote...

 Titles like the one posted in the link in the OP make me afraid, very afraid. Because as we could have all experienced with Mass Effect 3,  phrases like "Friendly to newcomers" is pretty much synonymous to: "the Veterans will be insulted" and "Carte blanche to retcon as we wish".


I just don't want them trying to go deep again with a press button solution in the end. Avoiding that, I think it will be fine. The ME world is so rich, it can sustain itself on less apocalyptic issues.

#82
Guest_Morocco Mole_*

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I do not want any filthy newcomers and casuals in my Mass Effect. I have already dusted it with the optimal amount of cheeto dust and they would ruin it.

#83
Fixers0

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garrusfan1 wrote...

to be fair they are not going to say this will be brutal to newcomers and if you didn't play ME1 ME2 or ME3 you are gonna have a really hard time with this game. also they said that about ME3 and I thought that if you never played ME2 or ME3 it would be a pain in the a**


Well they practically failed in both ways, new playes only get the most superficial understanding of the universe and are left with countless questions, while the veteran players feel alienated and find themselfs incapable of undertstanding the actions that happen on screen.

#84
LucasShark

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Fixers0 wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

to be fair they are not going to say this will be brutal to newcomers and if you didn't play ME1 ME2 or ME3 you are gonna have a really hard time with this game. also they said that about ME3 and I thought that if you never played ME2 or ME3 it would be a pain in the a**


Well they practically failed in both ways, new playes only get the most superficial understanding of the universe and are left with countless questions, while the veteran players feel alienated and find themselfs incapable of undertstanding the actions that happen on screen.


To give some perspective to just how bad this got: I have a list going of over 20 lore-based problems with ME3 within the first hour.

#85
AlexMBrennan

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an engine has inherant strengths and weaknesses

Sure. But since e.g. Source is used in games ranging from Dota (which I hate), Half Life 2 (which I don't like either) to Portal (which I enjoyed a lot) and Team Fortress (which is pretty fun) I would be careful about drawing conclusions based on the engine alone.

Frostbite is probably a decent engine, and Battlefield has been ruined by the dev teams terrible design decisions*. That's it. Until such a time that I see a complete let's play on YouTube I'd defer judgement.

* let's see:
1) experienced pilot/tank drivers get outright better vehicles (e.g. Missiles and countermeasures have to be unlocked first), meaning that a new player actively harms his team by getting into a tank.
2) ammo drops replenishing grenades - any braindead monkey could have worked out that this would result in a spamfest
3) essential class abilities have to be unlocked first (new player wants to be credit to team by reviving team mates? Too bad)
4) air units are way too powerful (e.g. Being able to outrun ground-to-air guided missiles), essentially partitioning the server in two separate battlefields (ground units can't harm jets, and jets just dogfight other jets - what's the point in having both on the same server?)
5) the large maps and combined arms warfare requires organisation and coordination beyond what can be expected in a public; this is subjective but I'd blame the developers for not providing better mechanics/more guidance here (just like "go play with a friend then" does not make broken matchmaking any less broken)

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 17 juillet 2013 - 04:50 .


#86
Guest_Morocco Mole_*

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Mass Effect has never followed the lore consistently.

#87
LucasShark

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JamesFaith wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Frostbite for its part was designed to be a product of this generation in console gaming.  That means it is designed to focus on presentation, which is fine, but it is also one of the least relevant elements in a game like Mass Effect.  I'd also argue that it is one of the least relevant aspects to making a generally good game, since graphics and sound are presentation.  You can make a bad game look good, it will still be bad.


So you are claiming that because game would look good it would be automatically bad in other ways? Is there some secret causal nexus between graphic and overal quality of game? And since when is good looking game and good gameplay and story elemenets mutualy exclusive?

This is just another anti-ME4 paranoia covered by "technical argument". 


And you ignored the point... what I'm saying is that by shackleing themselves to an engine that doesn't play to their strengths, Bioware is starting off on a bad foot.  Yes: the game could still be good, but it would be to some degree inspite of the engine, not because of it.  My view on graphics emphasis being a contributor to this industry's stagnation adds to that suspicion.

#88
LilyasAvalon

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I have no idea whether to be screaming in joy or agony.

#89
Cainhurst Crow

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LucasShark wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Frostbite for its part was designed to be a product of this generation in console gaming.  That means it is designed to focus on presentation, which is fine, but it is also one of the least relevant elements in a game like Mass Effect.  I'd also argue that it is one of the least relevant aspects to making a generally good game, since graphics and sound are presentation.  You can make a bad game look good, it will still be bad.


So you are claiming that because game would look good it would be automatically bad in other ways? Is there some secret causal nexus between graphic and overal quality of game? And since when is good looking game and good gameplay and story elemenets mutualy exclusive?

This is just another anti-ME4 paranoia covered by "technical argument". 


And you ignored the point... what I'm saying is that by shackleing themselves to an engine that doesn't play to their strengths, Bioware is starting off on a bad foot.  Yes: the game could still be good, but it would be to some degree inspite of the engine, not because of it.  My view on graphics emphasis being a contributor to this industry's stagnation adds to that suspicion.


And what, preytell, is that suppose to mean? Have you played with the engine? Do you know what strengths it has or doesn't have?

Considering that no games have come out using this engine yet, I find it preposterous that you would know what the engines limitations are, and what it's maximum strength is.

#90
Cainhurst Crow

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LilyasAvalon wrote...

I have no idea whether to be screaming in joy or agony.


Kotor team for new IP, so I'm going with joy.

No new info on mass effect, so neutral.

#91
Guest_Morocco Mole_*

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Even funnier since Unreal is a pretty terrible engine itself.

#92
DirtyPhoenix

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

I have no idea whether to be screaming in joy or agony.


Kotor team for new IP, so I'm going with joy.

No new info on mass effect, so neutral.


so... a neutral scream?

#93
Enhanced

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So, a 1st or 3rd person shooter game will be using a 1st or 3rd person shooter engine? What's the issue again?

Modifié par Enhanced, 17 juillet 2013 - 04:54 .


#94
ShepnTali

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If it's 1st person, I will not be happy.

#95
LucasShark

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Darth Brotarian wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

LucasShark wrote...

Frostbite for its part was designed to be a product of this generation in console gaming.  That means it is designed to focus on presentation, which is fine, but it is also one of the least relevant elements in a game like Mass Effect.  I'd also argue that it is one of the least relevant aspects to making a generally good game, since graphics and sound are presentation.  You can make a bad game look good, it will still be bad.


So you are claiming that because game would look good it would be automatically bad in other ways? Is there some secret causal nexus between graphic and overal quality of game? And since when is good looking game and good gameplay and story elemenets mutualy exclusive?

This is just another anti-ME4 paranoia covered by "technical argument". 


And you ignored the point... what I'm saying is that by shackleing themselves to an engine that doesn't play to their strengths, Bioware is starting off on a bad foot.  Yes: the game could still be good, but it would be to some degree inspite of the engine, not because of it.  My view on graphics emphasis being a contributor to this industry's stagnation adds to that suspicion.


And what, preytell, is that suppose to mean? Have you played with the engine? Do you know what strengths it has or doesn't have?

Considering that no games have come out using this engine yet, I find it preposterous that you would know what the engines limitations are, and what it's maximum strength is.


No, I have not had direct exposure to the engine itself.

I can however through pattern observation on games produced in its predecessor what they MIGHT, and probably will be.  It took several games for anyone to point out that Unreal engine games had a "look", and Epic still hates to hear that.  As for Frostbite: as I said above, it is designed to work in the current market of the AAA games industry, and knowing EA: it's been comitee designed out the arse for this precise purpose.  What is most important to most game publishers right now?  It certainly isn't depth or story telling: it's presentation.  How do I know EA is invested heavily in this particular vision of the games industry?  Just look at its recent output, and its risk factor analysis. 

Its last "big" games of Battlefield 3, Deadspace 3, and so on have all put their emphasis on pleasing as many audiences as possible, genuinely good to great graphical fadelity, and monitization.

As for EA's risk factor analysis: it can best be summed up like this: "Get the hits out fast, and make sure they sell".  This kind of attitude is counter-productive to producing the type of games Mass Effect was supposedly going to be, and the sort of games Bioware is or was good at producing.

How heavily invested is EA in this strategy?  Here's how: they spent 100+ MILLION dollars marketing battlefield 3.  MARKETING, not development, not design, not asset production, marketing.  You know how much money that is?  That's the entire production cost of the Witcher 2 6 times over.

Modifié par LucasShark, 17 juillet 2013 - 05:01 .


#96
IntelligentME3Fanboy

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ShepnTali wrote...

If it's 1st person, I will throw a party.

fixed

#97
LucasShark

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Enhanced wrote...

So, a 1st or 3rd person shooter game will be using a 1st or 3rd person shooter engine? What's the issue again?


You want bioware producing a shooter because... why again?  It isn't their strength.

#98
AlanC9

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LucasShark wrote...
No, I have not had direct exposure to the engine itself.

I can however through pattern observation on games produced in its predecessor what they MIGHT, and probably will be.  It took several games for anyone to point out that Unreal engine games had a "look", and Epic still hates to hear that.  As for Frostbite: as I said above, it is designed to work in the current market of the AAA games industry, and knowing EA: it's been comitee designed out the arse for this precise purpose.  What is most important to most game publishers right now?  It certainly isn't depth or story telling: it's presentation.  How do I know EA is invested heavily in this particular vision of the games industry?  Just look at its recent output, and its risk factor analysis. 


I'm still waiting for you to mention the actual problems with the engine

How about just one?

#99
Guest_Morocco Mole_*

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You want bioware producing a shooter because... why again? It isn't their strength.


But Mass Effect 3 actually had decent gameplay.

#100
LucasShark

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AlanC9 wrote...

LucasShark wrote...
No, I have not had direct exposure to the engine itself.

I can however through pattern observation on games produced in its predecessor what they MIGHT, and probably will be.  It took several games for anyone to point out that Unreal engine games had a "look", and Epic still hates to hear that.  As for Frostbite: as I said above, it is designed to work in the current market of the AAA games industry, and knowing EA: it's been comitee designed out the arse for this precise purpose.  What is most important to most game publishers right now?  It certainly isn't depth or story telling: it's presentation.  How do I know EA is invested heavily in this particular vision of the games industry?  Just look at its recent output, and its risk factor analysis. 


I'm still waiting for you to mention the actual problems with the engine

How about just one?


Perhapse you should take some refreshers on reading comprehension, or scrolling a bit farther down, person with a history of being an obstinant troll.