205 réponses à ce sujet

[philippe willaume]

ioannisdenton wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

I think most of the issue with DA2 combat wasn't the combat mechanic itself but the environment. I liked the speed and feel of combat, but when you are forced into the middle of a room where spawning enemies surround your whole party over and over and over, it forbids any kind of tactical setup. It makes every battle tactically exactly the same. Give me some bottlenecks, some high ground, some capacity to lay ambushes or traps and/or to lure enemies from positions of strength, in other words to think beyond "X, X, X, heal, X, X, X, heal". Then the combat would be so much less monotonous and engaging.

Da2 has autocombat..... Plus tactics....

so did DA:0, but i think you are missing the forest for
the tree.

yes , BW tried to fix what people where complaining about DA:0, IE 
The  class are more balance 
The attribute point distribution is simpler (some would say simplistic)
The tactics screens and usages was infinitely better
They got rid of the shuffle-shuffle poke animation
Playing more than one mage in DA:0 makes almost all combat trivial

As  it turn out, despite all that a few of us, myself included, found DA:2 combat mind numbing,repetitive and boring to tears.
Regardless the enemy, press the same button in the same order, the only difference is the length of time it takes to kill bosses.Just  like in SWtOR the only tactic/strategy option you have is get the level delta high enough to power through. You  can do that via extra quest, potions,and gear upgrade. that's it.
I had more interaction with the companion in combat in ME3 than i had in DA:2

The tactics you mention covers the automated behaviour and actions of the companions and you can set them so that they take advantage of you CC and vice versa, but since that once you have choose a development path for your character, the actual efficient options are very limited, you end up doing the same thing all the time and  as a side efffect it makes suboptimal class rapidly unplayable.

the tactic the poster you replying to covers using scouting or a skill to find the location of the enemy.
and from there use/modify the terrain (you could break oil barrels and then set the oil on fire).
position each party member to take advantage of that having two weapons specialisation per group members opens tactical option  for each given encounter Combos were usable by all class. (i.e. when a victim is frozen a warrior a mage or a rogue could smash it)

you just can’t do that in DA:2 there is no scouting ahead via rogue or skill and companions will automatically re-join the controlled character because of some sort of separation anxiety.

Despite the flaws, the main advantage of DA:0 was that you could develop companion and  character according to the role YOU saw them playing, as even if the build was sub-optimal you could replace build-optimization with being clever in how you approached an encounter.


So hopefully was will get a mix of both in DA:I
phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 18 juillet 2013 - 11:12 .

[Solmanian]

Maria Caliban wrote...

More Dragon Age II.

Less like dragon age 2.

[Rolling Flame]

More like Origins for me, with an small increase in general speed and the return of cross class combos.

[Uccio]

Origins for the win! DA2 had the most unrealistic combat I've seen in a long time. Two character facing each others smashing away like there is no tomorrow, swinging swords through each others like the other one was a hologram. Backflipping knights etc. I mean come on. Origins atleast was closer to real combat with dodging and getting hit by the opponent.

[esper]

I don't really see the difference between origin and da2 combat, the basics where the same, unless you count da2 being faster. I hope they keep cross class combo's though because it is highly unjustified that only mages have a combo in da:o.

[Ridwan]

No wave combat please! And get rid of the silly anime style. If I wanted to play a JRPG I'd buy one.

[sangy]

I seriously doubt they would revert to DA:O combat mechanics. The storyline and characters were much better in most peoples opinions, but you can't deny the combat was much better in DA2. I never played mage in any game until DA2. It was a lot of fun. In fact, I enjoyed all specializations because of how great the fighting felt.

I imagine things will be different, but only for the better. I'm not saying everyone will love DA3, but chances are it's going to be epic.

[Ieldra]

Rolling Flame wrote...
More like Origins for me, with an small increase in general speed and the return of cross class combos.

Indeed. I'm usually very tolerant of suboptimal combat gameplay. DA2 is the first game in 30 years where the level of hate I have for the combat has a significant negative effect on my enjoyment of the game as a whole. There is literally NOTHING good about DA2's combat. The insane speed and the over-the-top animations make it look like a parody. The waves make it a tedious chore, the speed invalidates tactics, the absence of friendly fire turns mages into AOE spammers, the talent combos defy all common sense and are made on the single rationale "there must be cross-class combos and no in-class combos". DA2's combat is a horrible parody of what combat in a video game with a serious plot should be, and it's the main reason why I haven't yet imported all my DAO games into DA2.

DA2 combat begone!

Take DAO's combat and speed up the warrior. That's about the only thing which needed to be addressed from my point of view.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 18 juillet 2013 - 02:16 .

[reddead136]

ioannisdenton wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Dragon Age 2 had greatswords that swung as fast as a conductor's baton. DA:O's combat was often slow and tedious, but at least it felt more genuine than DA2's jrpg like combat effects.

too bad 2Hwarriors in DAO were boring as hell. Da2 2h warrior was so much fun.
And this is what we want to do with Rpg videogames, : Have fun, right?
anyway lets not turn this into a DaO vs Da2 thread. Bothgames have their ups and lows. And we are both dragon age fans you and i.

I would definitely disagree with your statement on Origins 2h swords being boring as hell. I am more of a sword and shield kind of guy to begin with because I love bashing people with the shield before cutting their head off. xD
But I thought switching styles in origins had more weight to it. When you use a giant 2h sword it's a sacrifice of speed / less protection versus more damage. In DA 2 there is really no point in not using 2h weapons because as already stated you obviously don't have to worry about speed, lol.

I also like the special kills in Origins better. It feels a lot cooler cutting off someones head then watching them explode into a ridiculous amount of gore when I hit them with my sword especially after the 10,000th time.

That being said I do really like that the mages in DA 2 feel more alive than in origins ( even if it's the same wham, bam, zam animation over again) But rogues are really fun ( but need to be turned down a little) in my opinion.

Overall as it's been said Bioware claimed it will be between Origins and DA2's combat styles so I can't wait to see!

[ioannisdenton]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...
More like Origins for me, with an small increase in general speed and the return of cross class combos.

Indeed. I'm usually very tolerant of suboptimal combat gameplay. DA2 is the first game in 30 years where the level of hate I have for the combat has a significant negative effect on my enjoyment of the game as a whole. There is literally NOTHING good about DA2's combat. The insane speed and the over-the-top animations make it look like a parody. The waves make it a tedious chore, the speed invalidates tactics, the absence of friendly fire turns mages into AOE spammers, the talent combos defy all common sense and are made on the single rationale "there must be cross-class combos and no in-class combos". DA2's combat is a horrible parody of what combat in a video game with a serious plot should be, and it's the main reason why I haven't yet imported all my DAO games into DA2.

DA2 combat begone!

Take DAO's combat and speed up the warrior. That's about the only thing which needed to be addressed from my point of view.

tactics? Mages were overpowered, mana clash was the best antimage spell in DAO. One hit K.O!
I HATED da2 back when i first played it. A lot. But i changed my mind when i cranked up the difficulty and i realised that i had to position my Da2 companions out of harms way very very often.
Also the default tactics are as bad as they could get.
The battle with the high-dragon in act 3 and the battle with the both DLC's bosses blow DaO out of the water.
Have you played the final boss of MOTA dlc?
Do not get me wrong DAO had some great tactics as well but Da2 demanded more.
hate to admit it but the wave combat requires one to adapot at the situation and make wise choices all the time.
There are tons of configurations regarding the various tallent combinations across the classes one can make.
I am currently on Da2 on nightmare (first time on nightmare) and i am having a blast.Every battle can go wrong, almost every battle can go smooth if you take the time and analyse the movements.
Keep in mind that nightmare on da2 for me was impossible before as i:
was mindlessly spamming abilities in my foirst 2 playthroughs  (i am on my 4th) and not keeping them for the right moment, i used to AoE mindlessly, did not position my companions and Hawke.

Now on Over the top animations. On this i have to agree only on some of rogue's animations such as jumping high in the air and the kick-the-flask animation.
Animations for warrior and mages are fun to watch and execute.
Mages and warriors in DAO were uninispiring for one to play.
I personally do not want a dark souls realistic-looking combat, heck i play rpgs as a means to escape from boring reality and be in someone's else shoes.

[Melca36]

Filament wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

More Dragon Age II.

Less like dragon age 2.

More!

And if DA2 had been a blockbuster success. They would not be changing the combat would they?

They already said not to expect like Origins or DA2.  

[Melca36]

ioannisdenton wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...
More like Origins for me, with an small increase in general speed and the return of cross class combos.

Indeed. I'm usually very tolerant of suboptimal combat gameplay. DA2 is the first game in 30 years where the level of hate I have for the combat has a significant negative effect on my enjoyment of the game as a whole. There is literally NOTHING good about DA2's combat. The insane speed and the over-the-top animations make it look like a parody. The waves make it a tedious chore, the speed invalidates tactics, the absence of friendly fire turns mages into AOE spammers, the talent combos defy all common sense and are made on the single rationale "there must be cross-class combos and no in-class combos". DA2's combat is a horrible parody of what combat in a video game with a serious plot should be, and it's the main reason why I haven't yet imported all my DAO games into DA2.

DA2 combat begone!

Take DAO's combat and speed up the warrior. That's about the only thing which needed to be addressed from my point of view.

tactics? Mages were overpowered, mana clash was the best antimage spell in DAO. One hit K.O!
I HATED da2 back when i first played it. A lot. But i changed my mind when i cranked up the difficulty and i realised that i had to position my Da2 companions out of harms way very very often.
Also the default tactics are as bad as they could get.
The battle with the high-dragon in act 3 and the battle with the both DLC's bosses blow DaO out of the water.
Have you played the final boss of MOTA dlc?
Do not get me wrong DAO had some great tactics as well but Da2 demanded more.
hate to admit it but the wave combat requires one to adapot at the situation and make wise choices all the time.
There are tons of configurations regarding the various tallent combinations across the classes one can make.
I am currently on Da2 on nightmare (first time on nightmare) and i am having a blast.Every battle can go wrong, almost every battle can go smooth if you take the time and analyse the movements.
Keep in mind that nightmare on da2 for me was impossible before as i:
was mindlessly spamming abilities in my foirst 2 playthroughs  (i am on my 4th) and not keeping them for the right moment, i used to AoE mindlessly, did not position my companions and Hawke.

Now on Over the top animations. On this i have to agree only on some of rogue's animations such as jumping high in the air and the kick-the-flask animation.
Animations for warrior and mages are fun to watch and execute.
Mages and warriors in DAO were uninispiring for one to play.
I personally do not want a dark souls realistic-looking combat, heck i play rpgs as a means to escape from boring reality and be in someone's else shoes.

Sorry. the High Dragon battle in DA2 with the waves of dragonlings and drakes was ridiculous.  It just proved waved combat does NOT work and pander to the group who play in Nightmare was a mistake

[Star fury]

Melca36 wrote...

Sorry. the High Dragon battle in DA2 with the waves of dragonlings and drakes was ridiculous.  It just proved waved combat does NOT work and pander to the group who play in Nightmare was a mistake

That poster's bragging about DA2 nightmare fights is bull****. DAO nightmare was fun, until biower toned down difficulty because of whining casuals. There were interesting battles, there was friendly fire even on normal, enemy mages were PITA, there was tactic.

DA2 nightmare was dull as dishwater - waves of enemies with one or two bosses with HUGE hitpoints. No tactic at all, you could setup your party in an ideal defensive position but enemies will teleport behind you and chaotic cluster**** commences.   

Modifié par Star fury, 18 juillet 2013 - 05:59 .

[Bionuts]

If it had combat like Dark Souls...

nomnomnomnomnomnom ddroooool

[Star fury]

Bionuts wrote...

If it had combat like Dark Souls...

nomnomnomnomnomnom ddroooool

Yeah, the Japanese didn't cater to casuals thinking about profits like almost all game studios do. And look at them now, their hardcore RPGs are hugely popular.

[Sir George Parr]

If the combat was like DAO, i'd just have to find a window in my diary and throw myself out of it.

[Realmzmaster]

Star fury wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

Sorry. the High Dragon battle in DA2 with the waves of dragonlings and drakes was ridiculous.  It just proved waved combat does NOT work and pander to the group who play in Nightmare was a mistake

That poster's bragging about DA2 nightmare fights is bull****. DAO nightmare was fun, until biower toned down difficulty because of whining casuals. There were interesting battles, there was friendly fire even on normal, enemy mages were PITA, there was tactic.

DA2 nightmare was dull as dishwater - waves of enemies with one or two bosses with HUGE hitpoints. No tactic at all, you could setup your party in an ideal defensive position but enemies will teleport behind you and chaotic cluster**** commences.   

Which meant that you could not rely soley on the tactic of finding a nice defensive position and sit there. You actually had to change your strategy and tactics on the fly which I found to be quite fun. DAO was simply to easy to beat on Nightmare for that reason. Nightmare on DA2 for me was whole lot more fun.

[Realmzmaster]

Melca36 wrote...

Filament wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

More Dragon Age II.

Less like dragon age 2.

More!

And if DA2 had been a blockbuster success. They would not be changing the combat would they?

They already said not to expect like Origins or DA2.  

There are many more reasons for DA2 so-called lack of success than just combat. The combat in DA2 some gamers like it others did not the same with DAO. So Bioware will try a third combat system that people will either love, hate or fall somewhere in-between.

[Realmzmaster]

Star fury wrote...

Bionuts wrote...

If it had combat like Dark Souls...

nomnomnomnomnomnom ddroooool

Yeah, the Japanese didn't cater to casuals thinking about profits like almost all game studios do. And look at them now, their hardcore RPGs are hugely popular.

Define hugly popular. The sales of Dark Souls was the same as DA2 and nowhere near the sales of Skyrim, DAO or any of the Mass Effects.

[Mercedes-Benz]

I would like the whole game to go back to how it was in Dragon Age: Origins, but of course that isn't going to happen...

[TheRealJayDee]

Ieldra2 wrote...

DA2's combat is a horrible parody of what combat in a video game with a serious plot should be

I kinda have to agree. The whole style of the combat and the encounters took me out of the story regularly,

"Here, we tell you a personal story of a normal guy on his path to power. It deals with serious things like death and loss, abuse of power, opression etc. Oh, you want your character to go to his favourite tavern for a night out with his friends? Please make him slaughter a few dozen human beings on your way there, and twice as much on your way back home. Acually, slaughter dozens of people without context or consequence everytime you leave the house. Awesome!"

I know that most games suffer from problems like these in some way, but never before DA2 was it such a huge problem for me...