205 réponses à ce sujet

[eroeru]

DA:O

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

DA:O

[Dominus]

Hold up. Let me pull out my D6 to properly determine the answer to the question...

DA:O.

[Vort3xX]

If it's like DA2 then there's no way i would even consider getting the game.

[azerSheppard]

Dragon age 2 should be beaten with a metal rod for it's combat system. Mooks jumping off of roof or appearing out of thin air wave after wave.

"So here a few worhtless ****s you can kill (takes 1 second) next there are 2 more, nice this game is cool"

It was the most brainless rpg i have played to date. And anyone talking about "realism" and that DAO was not realistic, what you think back when people were wearing chainmail and full plate armor they did backflips flew around the battlefield felling 10.000 people a day? Yeah, maybe ease up on the cool-aid.

[Zilawn]

While I prefer DA2 combat better I still like the feel of it in DA:O so I think they sould have an option to pick DA:O type combat or DA2 combat that would be the best deal that way it pleases both parties.

[Volus Warlord]

CoD

[Luke Nukem Forever]

DA:O Hopefully.
DAII is absolute sh*t.

[Daralii]

muy_thaiguy wrote...

I prefered DA2 combat over DAO.

DAO just felt clunky. It did not feel like "every attack had power behind it", it felt more like they were barely holding onto their weapons because they were so heavy and almost slide right out of your hands. Also, the mage doing the same movement for EVERY spell was annoying.

For DA2, the combat felt smoother, like the characters actually had control of their weapons. The mage did more than punch the air for every spell, the rogue had it's own skill tree, and the warrior could actually jump into the thick of combat and go blow for blow against heavy hitters.

That said, the enemies popping out of nowhere was annoying in DA2, but overall, the combat felt smoother.

The fact that it was more satisfying is one of the big reasons I prefered it. Some of the animations were over the top sure, but if my only choices are between silly animations and limply swinging at an enemy praying for a hit to connect(because warriors generally have so little stamina that sustained effects and one or two abilities will empty you out), then give me my ninja shoes.

Not bothering to bring up waves because they were gone in MotA and Legacy, so there's little to no reason to think they'd be back in Inquisition.

[Martanek]

Maria Caliban wrote...

More Dragon Age II.

More DA:O all the way. More DAII would mean an insult to all gamers who have grown up playing classic, console-influence-free RPGs. I hope Bioware finally come to senses with DA:I and deliver their goods to the gamers appreciative of what made DA:O a superior game to be remebered.

[Daralii]

Martanek wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

More Dragon Age II.

More DA:O all the way. More DAII would mean an insult to all gamers who have grown up playing classic, console-influence-free RPGs. I hope Bioware finally come to senses with DA:I and deliver their goods to the gamers appreciative of what made DA:O a superior game to be remebered.

Why would any publicly owned corporation make a huge change for the sole purpose of appealing to an incredibly small minority? I'm not sure catering to nostalgia is a sustainable business model.

[Melca36]

Vort3xX wrote...

If it's like DA2 then there's no way i would even consider getting the game.

Check the twitter thread with updates from PAX. Its NOT going to be exactly like DA2's or Origins.

They are taking elements from both games for Inqusition. So no worries.  I think some people are having a problem accepting it though.

[Melca36]

Daralii wrote...

Martanek wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

More Dragon Age II.

More DA:O all the way. More DAII would mean an insult to all gamers who have grown up playing classic, console-influence-free RPGs. I hope Bioware finally come to senses with DA:I and deliver their goods to the gamers appreciative of what made DA:O a superior game to be remebered.

Why would any publicly owned corporation make a huge change for the sole purpose of appealing to an incredibly small minority? I'm not sure catering to nostalgia is a sustainable business model.

Again check the Twitter thread. Its not going to be exactly DA2s or Origins.

[MerinTB]

addiction21 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
For the first part - no, I'd take the boss battles of DA:O ("standing around and hitting them, I guess") to the twitchy / pattern-memorization that is those other battles.  I'd even take *shudder* kiting over "he flashes, then he spins, you block, then he twirls, you hide behind the crates, then he yawns, you have to shoot him in the mouth - rinse, repeat."

That said, yes, I absolutley agree with the latter part.  DA:O High Dragon fights (and Archdemon fight) are far superior to the borefest, time-consuming Dragon fights in DA2 (that last bone-pit dragon fight isn't hard, even on Nightmare, it just takes FOREVER... the difficulty is in not slashing your wrists to just relieve the boredom!)

But its all pattern memorization. Even the DAO fights. That Ogre is going to charge so you move out the way. That HIgh Dragon has a nasty tail attack so you don't stand there.

It is not really the same thing.  For one, I don't actually ever move characters in DA:O to dodge Ogre charges.  Ever.  On my sixth time playing the game (for hopefully the 4th complete playthrough) and I just take those hits.  Even on Nightmare that's not a killer, and I only played through on Nightmare once.

The High Dragons you have to move, unfortunately, because they move.  I will concede that you have to scatter your party right before the dragon lands, so that's something of pattern recognition, sure, but I think it's just as accurate to call that the kind of pattern recognition / twitch gaming from Nintendo as it would be to call walking down stairs to be marching or dancing - there are similarities but one is nowhere near the complexity of the other.

I don't mind moving my party to advantagous positions as a matter of tactics. I do mind, however, having to duck and roll and wait for the "preset opening" in the enemy's programmed repetitious routine.

This is one of the things I really liked about Ninja Gaiden back in the day.  I'm not a guy for these kind of combat games, but that one was intriguing in that the enemies (at least as far as I got in the game - I get bored with those kinds of games easily) were tough, even the "boss" fights, but there wasn't any cheating by the AI and there was no pattern to memorize - you could win all the fights just by fighting and reacting well.  There were no patterns to memorize - again, at least as far as I got.  Just the enemy fighting you with the same sort of abilities you had.  That's how I want combat.

I've never been a Nintendo gamer.  I've never, ever liked fights (whether Punch-Out or Rise of Sun Tzu) where you wait for the pattern to go throught he motions to get to the "vulnerable" stage.  That's me.

Seeing my computer party-based role-playing games adopting these Nintendo tactics makes me livid.  Those games exist - they are out there for people who like them.  We don't have to homogenize all games to all do the exact same things.  Variety is the spice of life, and other cliches, so let's have variety.

Like the AIrshock fight if he could do such damage then his health and resistances should not of been to that point. That fight was stupid top to bottom. His health and resistances to slows, stuns, mezzes and everything else should of been dropped. I can understand a High Dragon having a lot of health but him no.

He should have fought like Hawke 2H would fight.  Maybe more health than Hawke 2H, sure, and maybe dealing more damage, sure.  But it should have been the AI using the same abilties as the player, no patterns, just an analysis / response like the tactics you can set on your own party members.

[Martanek]

Daralii wrote...

Martanek wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

More Dragon Age II.

More DA:O all the way. More DAII would mean an insult to all gamers who have grown up playing classic, console-influence-free RPGs. I hope Bioware finally come to senses with DA:I and deliver their goods to the gamers appreciative of what made DA:O a superior game to be remebered.

Why would any publicly owned corporation make a huge change for the sole purpose of appealing to an incredibly small minority? I'm not sure catering to nostalgia is a sustainable business model.

Maybe because DA:O sold approximately twice as better as DAII did? What I mean is that Bioware already has the winning formula, a profitable RPG template, but unfortunately they have allowed themselves to be tempted to cater to the lowest common denominator, a business model that – apparently – has not proven sucessful for DAII. If bioware acts sensible and uses basic business logic, they should have returned to that successful formula established by DA:O. Seems sensible and logical both from a business and critical standpoint, does it not?

[Star fury]

Daralii wrote...

Why would any publicly owned corporation make a huge change for the sole purpose of appealing to an incredibly small minority? I'm not sure catering to nostalgia is a sustainable business model.

Cause that apparently "incredibly small minority" generated more more money, thus ensuring that DA:O outsold DA2. That is a fact.

P.S. Ninja'd by seconds.

Modifié par Star fury, 21 juillet 2013 - 05:35 .

[MerinTB]

CronoDragoon wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
People loving those patterned, twitchy combat battles?  They are enjoying the out of place diarrhea joke.

This isn't really a good analogy. People don't consider separate games in a series a single work the way that they will a movie. Moreover, different battle systems and tones is actually more the paradigm in video game series than the exception. See: Final Fantasy, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Shadow Hearts, etc.

Picking apart analogies is something evyerone can do.  It is a waste of time.  Again, saying that a pearl is like an orange because both are spherical is absolutely correct.  The fact that an orange is not white like a pearl, or that you can eat an orange but not a pearl, doesn't make the point of the analogy wrong.

Moreover, I was speaking how it LOOKS with the movie comparison, clearly, because you cannot ACTIVELY PLAY a movie.  There's the biggest difference.

The ARW fight in DA2 is unlike pretty much every other combat in the entirely of the DA2 core game.  No other fight do you have to time attacks with the repetitious pattern of the creature you fight, and no other fight needs you hiding behind stuff to survive.

The end fight of DA2, against Meredith?  That was a well designed fight for DA2.  It was more involved than most fights, it bent rules from other fights, but you still could play it like you played all previous fights in DA2.

That was a well designed fight for DA2.  ARW stands out.  It's the diarrhea joke in the serious drama.  You might love a good bit of toilet humor, not judging you, but it greatly sticks out and feels out of place to some people.

[Star fury]

Martanek wrote...
Maybe because DA:O sold approximately twice as better as DAII did? What I mean is that Bioware already has the winning formula, a profitable RPG template, but unfortunately they have allowed themselves to be tempted to cater to the lowest common denominator, a business model that – apparently – has not proven sucessful for DAII. If bioware acts sensible and uses basic business logic, they should have returned to that successful formula established by DA:O. Seems sensible and logical both from a business and critical standpoint, does it not?

Yes, it does. But on bsn you have a vocal group of DA2 fans or WUMs(more plausible explanation) who defend no matter the cost. On every other board there is a general consensus that DA2 sucked hard.

[MerinTB]

Star fury wrote...

Martanek wrote...

Daralii wrote...
Why would any publicly owned corporation make a huge change for the sole purpose of appealing to an incredibly small minority? I'm not sure catering to nostalgia is a sustainable business model.

Maybe because DA:O sold approximately twice as better as DAII did? What I mean is that Bioware already has the winning formula, a profitable RPG template, but unfortunately they have allowed themselves to be tempted to cater to the lowest common denominator, a business model that – apparently – has not proven sucessful for DAII. If bioware acts sensible and uses basic business logic, they should have returned to that successful formula established by DA:O. Seems sensible and logical both from a business and critical standpoint, does it not?

Cause that apparently "incredibly small minority" generated more more money, thus ensuring that DA:O outsold DA2. That is a fact.

P.S. Ninja'd by seconds.

Yepyep.

One sold way better.  One was way better received.

Star fury wrote...
But on bsn you have a vocal group of DA2 fans or WUMs(more plausible explanation) who defend no matter the cost. On every other board there is a general consensus that DA2 sucked hard. 

Heck, DA2 makes so many "worse sequel ever" lists it is kind of amazing.  Especially since, I think objectively if you ignore DA:O's existence (special pleading, I know) then DA2 is a fairly solid game.

But it is what it is... a sequel seen by most as inferior to it's predecessor.  Now, I'm not going to make Invisible War to Deus Ex comparisons...

but maybe DA:I can pull a (Human) Revolution?

Modifié par MerinTB, 21 juillet 2013 - 05:42 .

[MerinTB]

MerinTB wrote...
How many points did that win you?

Filament wrote...
Whatever, have fun with whatever it is you think you're winning here.

You seem to like to continually appropriate my language.  What does that say about your debate skills?

Filament wrote...
Hahaha, oh my god. You can't be serious anymore. Seriously. You still don't think you're being the most giant condescending douchebag in the world right now? Wow.

Yes indeed, "wow."

irony... hypocrisy...

Modifié par MerinTB, 21 juillet 2013 - 05:45 .

[MerinTB]

Filament wrote...
lol indeed, no one before MerinTB ever talked about winning an argument, you are truly a trailblazer. Please.

If it had been just that one instance, sure, I'd be grasping at straws.

MerinTB wrote...
Helped you take that straw man down.

Filament wrote...
Speaking of straw men, I never said anything about the Arishok fight being well designed. But I did like the mazelike nature of Corypheus' spell and I did think it was fun both to play and to look at. So, whatever.

But you also tu quoque'd me by (very erroneously) claiming I was setting up a straw man against you after I had pointed out a different poster's straw man.

So, I'm sensing the pattern here, waiting for your vulnerable opening, and then hitting you with the necessary attack.

I may not LIKE Nintendo twitch pattern recognition fighting, but I can do it if the mini-boss battle requires it.

Filament wrote...
Anyway, Meredith wasn't a good fight for any game.

Opinions. Subjectivity.

And, also, not my point.  It FIT the rest of the fights in the game.  I'm not defending the fights in the game, I'm pointing out the consistency.  My whole argument about these "best fights in DA2" revolved around two things:

1 - how stupid they look if you were watching them as an actual fight (Kiting Combat, coming to the big screen at a theater near you this summer!)

2 - (relevent) that these praised fights, the CoryI'mGonnaScrewUpHisNameSoYouWasteTimePointingThatOutAgainYesThisIsBaitingHereBeTheBiggerManDon'tTakeIt
and ARW fights, stand out as VERY DIFFERENT than the way the rest of the fights in the game are designed - hence the low-brow comedy in a high-brow drama comparison - that people will have very different reactions to it, but they clearly stick out

I dislike the Nintendo-pattern-boss-fight combat, sure.  That leaks in here as well.  But it isn't the central point.

Filament wrote...
Gosh, I really hope they aren't listening to any of your suggestions, you have such bad ideas I can't believe you aren't trolling. At least I know they said they were encouraged by the reception to the gameplay in Legacy and MotA.

It'd be far better to listen to you and DA2 defenders and see even lower sales next time around?

No, they got the messages from DA2 and ME3.  They got the message.  They've bent-over-backwards to say as much as every con.

[Halfdan The Menace]

Volus Warlord wrote...

CoD

Cod fishes.

[Melca36]

Filament wrote...

lol indeed, no one before MerinTB ever talked about winning an argument, you are truly a trailblazer. Please.

Anyway, Meredith wasn't a good fight for any game. Gosh, I really hope they aren't listening to any of your suggestions, you have such bad ideas I can't believe you aren't trolling. At least I know they said they were encouraged by the reception to the gameplay in Legacy and MotA.

Another something we agree on. :happy:

The Meredith Light-Saber/Sword battle was the most cringe worthy and ridiculous battle ever done for a Bioware game.