225 réponses à ce sujet

[Chashan]

d4eaming wrote...

Selling him back to the person who abused him is pretty sick, especially
to enforce some stupid "faustian bargain" as if torturing someone is
the lesser evil than breaking a vow that he, according to his writer, did not know
would end with him being tortured to the point of trauma induced
amnesia. Fenris didn't know what Denarius had in mind for him- that is
not a decision made with all facts available, and therefore, has no
"bargain" that needs to be enforced.

That is very much the nature of a Faustian pact, though, not fully knowing what that pact entails. In the case of Goethe's work, Faust himself sets the condition whereby his soul is forfeit to good Mephistopheles, true, but meanwhile Faust is granted all the unvirtuous excitement and occult insight he asked for.

I read up the synopsis of the details given for Leto's deal with the magister, and it doesn't read too different: he did it so that his family are freed from slave-status in return, which is done. And the good Leto does appear to appreciate the...gift...he received, given his tendency to employ it to gruesome effect during his violent outbursts.
Leto also doesn't strike me as a particularly broken character - imbalanced, yes, what with his anger management issues, but not broken. Which actually makes me respect the man a good deal more. That he was willing to sacrifice himself for the good of his family also speaks well of him to me, as well as him not going on a rampage when returned to his master.

I will not deny that getting the full picture on the deal Leto struck with his master requires meta-knowledge gained through playing both outcomes of his act 3-quest, but even ignoring that, there are more pragmatic reasons stated by others to humour Danarius's proposal.

Regardless of all that, I am not disinclined to see or at least hear of the DA2 cast in DA:I again, Fenris included, nor do I discourage that.

Modifié par Chashan, 04 septembre 2013 - 03:24 .

[d4eaming]

Chashan wrote...

d4eaming wrote...

Selling him back to the person who abused him is pretty sick, especially
to enforce some stupid "faustian bargain" as if torturing someone is
the lesser evil than breaking a vow that he, according to his writer, did not know
would end with him being tortured to the point of trauma induced
amnesia. Fenris didn't know what Denarius had in mind for him- that is
not a decision made with all facts available, and therefore, has no
"bargain" that needs to be enforced.

That is very much the nature of a Faustian pact, though, not fully knowing what that pact entails. In the case of Goethe's work, Faust himself sets the condition whereby his soul is forfeit to good Mephistopheles, true, but meanwhile Faust is granted all the unvirtuous excitement and occult insight he asked for.

I read up the synopsis of the details given for Leto's deal with the magister, and it doesn't read too different: he did it so that his family are freed from slave-status in return, which is done. And the good Leto does appear to appreciate the...gift...he received, given his tendency to employ it to gruesome effect during his violent outbursts.
Leto also doesn't strike me as a particularly broken character - imbalanced, yes, what with his anger management issues, but not broken. Which actually makes me respect the man a good deal more. That he was willing to sacrifice himself for the good of his family also speaks well of him to me, as well as him not going on a rampage when returned to his master.

I will not deny that getting the full picture on the deal Leto struck with his master requires meta-knowledge gained through playing both outcomes of his act 3-quest, but even ignoring that, there are more pragmatic reasons stated by others to humour Danarius's proposal.

Regardless of all that, I am not disinclined to see or at least hear of the DA2 cast in DA:I again, Fenris included, nor do I discourage that.

Don't care. Selling someone back into slavery so they can be tortured, raped, and abused is sick and vile. Nothing will change that opinion, I don't care if he willingly jumped up and said "yes, plase torture me into oblivion!" and danced his way onto the table for it, the person he is now very clearly DOES NOT want that life.

[Nyx_Necrodragon]

Catfish Shotgun wrote...

Hey, hey, guys, c'mon now, I liked Fenris, he was a swell fella once you got into his soft innards. Cool chap, loyal and whatnot.
Anders on the other hand...

Thank you I seem to be the only one who was pissed off by Anders. He was a whiny **** in Awakening and even more of a whiny **** in DA2. 'Chantry this, templar that, mages the other' I was so happy when I got to kill Anders. I think I even saw Fenris smile

[Ananka]

I'd love to see Fenris again in a cameo. He and Varric are my favorites in DA2. The rest of the DA2 characters I don't really care about seeing again, except maybe for Anders just because my mage Hawke and mage Warden sympathized with his cause (although not with blowing up Chantries).

[Nyx_Necrodragon]

OMG what if Fenris came back as an agent or a quest-giving NPC, that would be an interesting development

[berelinde]

Nyx_Necrodragon wrote...

OMG what if Fenris came back as an agent or a quest-giving NPC, that would be an interesting development

Hey, it could happen, especially if Fenris's Act 3 quests were completed. I was thinking about this on my commute, and I kept coming back to Shartan, the former slave who helped overthrow the Tevinter Imperium. If the game involved Tevinter at all, maybe he could be trying to organize some kind of slave rebellion. "Rival" Fenris, who has overcome at least part of his hatred of mages, might even recruit some former Circle mages to help his cause.

This would be a pretty big divergence from his DA2 personality, though. He isn't really a leader, and he certainly isn't a revolutionary, but maybe that book Hawke gave him about Shartan had some influence?

I don't consider myself a Fenris fan, by any stretch of the imagination, but I do see how he could have some involvement going forward in some non-trivial capacity. If *any* character is to come back, I'd rather see them in some kind of meaningful role, not just to wander onstage, praise a former protagonist, and wander off having accomplished nothing.

[Hazegurl]

Nyx_Necrodragon wrote...

Catfish Shotgun wrote...

Hey, hey, guys, c'mon now, I liked Fenris, he was a swell fella once you got into his soft innards. Cool chap, loyal and whatnot.
Anders on the other hand...

Thank you I seem to be the only one who was pissed off by Anders. He was a whiny **** in Awakening and even more of a whiny **** in DA2. 'Chantry this, templar that, mages the other' I was so happy when I got to kill Anders. I think I even saw Fenris smile

Trust me, you're not the only one. Anders was such an annoying hot mess. I didn't too much care for him in Awakening but at least he was playful but in DA2 he was just a depressed sack of Templars, Templars, and more Templars! I felt for him witht he whole Carl thing but other than that I wanted him to shut it.

[Dutchess]

berelinde wrote...

Nyx_Necrodragon wrote...

OMG what if Fenris came back as an agent or a quest-giving NPC, that would be an interesting development

Hey, it could happen, especially if Fenris's Act 3 quests were completed. I was thinking about this on my commute, and I kept coming back to Shartan, the former slave who helped overthrow the Tevinter Imperium. If the game involved Tevinter at all, maybe he could be trying to organize some kind of slave rebellion. "Rival" Fenris, who has overcome at least part of his hatred of mages, might even recruit some former Circle mages to help his cause.

This would be a pretty big divergence from his DA2 personality, though. He isn't really a leader, and he certainly isn't a revolutionary, but maybe that book Hawke gave him about Shartan had some influence?

I don't consider myself a Fenris fan, by any stretch of the imagination, but I do see how he could have some involvement going forward in some non-trivial capacity. If *any* character is to come back, I'd rather see them in some kind of meaningful role, not just to wander onstage, praise a former protagonist, and wander off having accomplished nothing.

Haha, I'm actually writing a bit about that in my fan fic. Anyway, ontopic: Fenris is one of my favorite companions and my favorite romance, but I'm not entirely sure I want him to appear in DA3. Ideally, if it would be done well, of course I'd love to hear more of that voice, but DA2's cameos were a big let-down and not very encouraging. Zevran's broken import still makes me mad, haha. 

I do think Fenris could grow into the part of playing revolutionary. I saw somebody here say that he only cares about his own freedom, but I don't think that's true. If he would not care about slavery in general, he would not get so pissed everytime Hawke wants to let slavers walk away or when Hawke wants to take a slave him/herself. He's probably not the big leader who gives inspiring speeches and such, but he can spark the flame and try to encourage slaves to rebel and work together (he has found out there is strenght in numbers after all). Only by the end of DA2 is he truly free and he can start to build a life and choose what to do, so who knows where things will lead.

[Nyx_Necrodragon]

renjility wrote...

berelinde wrote...

Nyx_Necrodragon wrote...

OMG what if Fenris came back as an agent or a quest-giving NPC, that would be an interesting development

Hey, it could happen, especially if Fenris's Act 3 quests were completed. I was thinking about this on my commute, and I kept coming back to Shartan, the former slave who helped overthrow the Tevinter Imperium. If the game involved Tevinter at all, maybe he could be trying to organize some kind of slave rebellion. "Rival" Fenris, who has overcome at least part of his hatred of mages, might even recruit some former Circle mages to help his cause.

This would be a pretty big divergence from his DA2 personality, though. He isn't really a leader, and he certainly isn't a revolutionary, but maybe that book Hawke gave him about Shartan had some influence?

I don't consider myself a Fenris fan, by any stretch of the imagination, but I do see how he could have some involvement going forward in some non-trivial capacity. If *any* character is to come back, I'd rather see them in some kind of meaningful role, not just to wander onstage, praise a former protagonist, and wander off having accomplished nothing.

Haha, I'm actually writing a bit about that in my fan fic. Anyway, ontopic: Fenris is one of my favorite companions and my favorite romance, but I'm not entirely sure I want him to appear in DA3. Ideally, if it would be done well, of course I'd love to hear more of that voice, but DA2's cameos were a big let-down and not very encouraging. Zevran's broken import still makes me mad, haha. 

I do think Fenris could grow into the part of playing revolutionary. I saw somebody here say that he only cares about his own freedom, but I don't think that's true. If he would not care about slavery in general, he would not get so pissed everytime Hawke wants to let slavers walk away or when Hawke wants to take a slave him/herself. He's probably not the big leader who gives inspiring speeches and such, but he can spark the flame and try to encourage slaves to rebel and work together (he has found out there is strenght in numbers after all). Only by the end of DA2 is he truly free and he can start to build a life and choose what to do, so who knows where things will lead.

Hopefully they've learnt from the infamous 'Zevran Import' Zevran didn't have as much of an open-ended story line. He's always gonna be hunted by the crows. Fenris could've gone on to do anything, mercenary, bodyguard, vigilante (oops, he's starting to sound like Garrus Vakarian) or he could just run around Tevinter 'Moses style' shouting "Let my people go!" at the Archon LOL

[Melca36]

DoomHK wrote...

I hope not. Fenris was easily the worst and most annoying companion, IMO. I hated almost everything about him, from his silly appearance to his annoying and grating personality.

Didnt care for him either. I did kill Danarius though.

Got really tired of some of his fans bullying others into liking him.  I am not say all of them did this but a few did.

If he has a cameo in Inquistion....fine but if hes a quest giver I hope its optional. 

[OLDIRTYBARON]

Melca36 wrote...

DoomHK wrote...

I hope not. Fenris was easily the worst and most annoying companion, IMO. I hated almost everything about him, from his silly appearance to his annoying and grating personality.

Didnt care for him either. I did kill Danarius though.

Got really tired of some of his fans bullying others into liking him.  I am not say all of them did this but a few did.

If he has a cameo in Inquistion....fine but if hes a quest giver I hope its optional. 

May I ask what about Fenris perturbed you so? I liked him, and I'm curious as to what bothers people about him.

[Melca36]

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

DoomHK wrote...

I hope not. Fenris was easily the worst and most annoying companion, IMO. I hated almost everything about him, from his silly appearance to his annoying and grating personality.

Didnt care for him either. I did kill Danarius though.

Got really tired of some of his fans bullying others into liking him.  I am not say all of them did this but a few did.

If he has a cameo in Inquistion....fine but if hes a quest giver I hope its optional. 

May I ask what about Fenris perturbed you so? I liked him, and I'm curious as to what bothers people about him.

I was just not into him and the broodiness.    Not everyone is going to like who you like its that simple.  Sure he had a few good moments but not enough for me to have a shrine to him. 

Really hated how he was written to be so vicious to Merrill too. It was overkill and I hate how most of his fans excuse it. 

[OLDIRTYBARON]

Melca36 wrote...

I was just not into him and the broodiness.    Not everyone is going to like who you like its that simple.  Sure he had a few good moments but not enough for me to have a shrine to him. 

Really hated how he was written to be so vicious to Merrill too. It was overkill and I hate how most of his fans excuse it. 

I had no idea that other people would have likes and dislikes different from my own. Thanks for the heads up.

[Melca36]

OLDIRTYBARON wrote...

Melca36 wrote...

I was just not into him and the broodiness.    Not everyone is going to like who you like its that simple.  Sure he had a few good moments but not enough for me to have a shrine to him. 

Really hated how he was written to be so vicious to Merrill too. It was overkill and I hate how most of his fans excuse it. 

I had no idea that other people would have likes and dislikes different from my own. Thanks for the heads up.

If my post offended you in any way I am sorry. I have had this character and his so called greatness shoved down my throat to the point of no return. I don't hate him. I certainly would NEVER sell him back to Danarius. I just don't care for him. 

I will admit to this..........I do like him and Isabela together though.

[OLDIRTYBARON]

No worries brah. I understand your point of view. Whenever I see someone around here with a different perspective I tend to inquire as to how or why they think the way they do. That's all.

Fenris is definitely prickly, though I've never had to deal with his fan base or people who romanced him, so I lack perspective on how bad it was.

[ImperatorMortis]

 Wonder what Fenris will look like, now that he's no longer been afflicted by Ugly Elf Syndrome.

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 04 septembre 2013 - 10:50 .

[Gold Dragon]

I wonder If Fenris would appear if Hawke never recruited him...

I forgot to....

[anjitaki]

I want to see him. I want to know what he is up to.

Modifié par anjitaki, 04 septembre 2013 - 10:58 .

[aphelion4]

I would love for him to show up. That voice and that broodiness.

[RazorrX]

I killed Fenris in a couple of playthroughs. Would be another special holy raising to bring him back after being turned to goo in the mage tower.

[Kharaide]

i could never save fenris.. always killed him. not by cjoice mind you

[Eragon-]

I'm not really keen on seeing him returning, or Anders for that matter. His bullying of Merril got really annoying, And when him and Anders started arguing for the n'th time I just wanted to shove a log down their throats. Well, at least he was game when Isabella was around. Anders ****ed even then - that's quite a feat.

That said, I won't be throwing stones at the game if either of those two appear. I will just ignore them as I did in DA 2.

Modifié par Eragon-, 05 septembre 2013 - 05:21 .