199 réponses à ce sujet

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Secretlyapotato wrote...

Because they're whiny. The rest of the game is lots of fun.

Yup, this. 

[Reorte]

Ooh, some really cutting defences of the game there.

[FlamingBoy]

When a person uses phrases (or creates a title to a thread) like "I can't understand why..." or "I don't get why this person thinks XYZ"

It implies (through basic meaning of words) that one must explain it to the person asking as if he/she is a child, because they actually do NOT understand the reasons why people disliked the endings.

In almost in all cases which these phrases are made (at least on the internet), they are made to demean the viewpoint not to actually understand why people think the way they do.

[AlanC9]

FlamingBoy wrote...

When a person uses phrases (or creates a title to a thread) like "I can't understand why..." or "I don't get why this person thinks XYZ"

It implies (through basic meaning of words) that one must explain it to the person asking as if he/she is a child, because they actually do NOT understand the reasons why people disliked the endings.

In almost in all cases which these phrases are made (at least on the internet), they are made to demean the viewpoint not to actually understand why people think the way they do.

That's usually true. I do it a bunch myself, though I'd never actually start a thread that way.

But in this case, all erezike was doing was a rather clumsy bait-and-switch.

[Jadebaby]

*slowly lifts popcorn to mouth*

[Erez Kristal]

AlanC9 wrote...


Exactly what is it you're proposing ME3 should have done? Have the Reapers not show up and then..... what?

Reapers are looking for a way to enter the galaxy, there were many ways to set this up.
Lets talk about another succesful story, Game of thrones- in game of thrones the bigbad is one the sidelines most of the time. im working on my own alternate version of how things could have enrolled. there are many other alternate possibilities. in me3 it seems they went with the forced railroad- character hijacking, watered down past decisions galaxy turning stupid, a lot of big explosions and a reaper off switch..
How good did that story go?

[Erez Kristal]

Synergizer wrote...

As if the beginning of Mass Effect 2 wasn't dumb enough?
All of Shepard's crew knew about the Reapers, so when Shepard is MIA, they go off to kill druglords, deal in information, teach in schools, etc, etc... Instead of saving the Galaxy.
And everyone who complains about the storyline always offers up their own ideas like "The Alliance can just say they have Shepard in lock-down while (s)he's out kicking ass" which absolutely would not make sense. Presumably Shepard would be incognito, but the moment (s)he's recognised by anyone (which happens a lot!), cover is blown and the Alliance are caught in a lie.
Anyway, this kind of game is about shooting up bad guys with a loose plot to sting together action sequences, if you're seriously interested in some deep, thoughtful story - I suggest you hit the library/bookstore - not the video shop.

- me2
 alliance crew torn apart by alliance officals.
Wrex- uniting tuchanka.
Liara- investigate the shadowbroker-collector reaper help
Tali - Investigate bizzare incidents throughout the galaxy,
Wrex- unite krogans.
Ashley - special ops
Garrus - not enough evidence to do anything, became batman-which mean a lot more than almost anyone would do- just look at real life, innocents are dying around the world any day but we rather sit infront of the computer. 


Yeah they were doing nothing...

Me3- Shepard can change face, wear an helmet, have a double/clone on the alliance jail change voice- be creative these things are done in 2013 no reason why they wouldnt be easy to achieve in 2186. shepard starting on earth was incredibly poor writing with only design to create a time a skip and show the reapers ravaging earth. its the best example of plot stupidity in order to work with a writer version who didnt bother to examine the holes in his ideas.

This game wasnt suppose to be just about shooting bad guys, the things which seperate rpgs from the rest of the crowds is the story. this is why bioware hire such a big staff of writers 7-12 while action game hire 1-2

This was a badly written story with no justifications

[Eryri]

erezike wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...


Exactly what is it you're proposing ME3 should have done? Have the Reapers not show up and then..... what?

Reapers are looking for a way to enter the galaxy, there were many ways to set this up.
Lets talk about another succesful story, Game of thrones- in game of thrones the bigbad is one the sidelines most of the time. im working on my own alternate version of how things could have enrolled. there are many other alternate possibilities. in me3 it seems they went with the forced railroad- character hijacking, watered down past decisions galaxy turning stupid, a lot of big explosions and a reaper off switch..
How good did that story go?

Agreed, it would be far better if the bulk of the Reapers were still trapped at the beginning of ME3. Better for both ME3, and retroactively for ME1 and ME2. Much has been made of the futility of Sovereign's kamikaze assault on the Citadel, or the Collectors drawing attention to themselves by trying to scrape together enough human colonists to make a Reaper when they could have waited a few months and conquered Earth itself.

I often think that a smaller scale Reaper invasion would have worked better. Harbinger and a few elite Reapers using their last reserves of energy in a desperate attempt to open some sort of unstable wormhole back to the galaxy, half killing themselves in the process. They would still be dangerous, all the more so for being wounded animals, but not so overwhelming that the only way to resolve the plot would be through quasi-magical superweapons.

The plot of ME3 could have been Shepard hunting down and destroying this expeditionary force before they repaired themselves, and made another assault on the prime relay at the Citadel to bring in the invasion proper.

Modifié par Eryri, 20 juillet 2013 - 06:51 .

[Erez Kristal]

AlanC9 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

When a person uses phrases (or creates a title to a thread) like "I can't understand why..." or "I don't get why this person thinks XYZ"

It implies (through basic meaning of words) that one must explain it to the person asking as if he/she is a child, because they actually do NOT understand the reasons why people disliked the endings.

In almost in all cases which these phrases are made (at least on the internet), they are made to demean the viewpoint not to actually understand why people think the way they do.

That's usually true. I do it a bunch myself, though I'd never actually start a thread that way.

But in this case, all erezike was doing was a rather clumsy bait-and-switch.

i actually found it to be a rather good one.
you can easily see that many people dont even bother to the read other people posts, or even opening post 

[FlamingBoy]

erezike wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

When a person uses phrases (or creates a title to a thread) like "I can't understand why..." or "I don't get why this person thinks XYZ"

It implies (through basic meaning of words) that one must explain it to the person asking as if he/she is a child, because they actually do NOT understand the reasons why people disliked the endings.

In almost in all cases which these phrases are made (at least on the internet), they are made to demean the viewpoint not to actually understand why people think the way they do.

That's usually true. I do it a bunch myself, though I'd never actually start a thread that way.

But in this case, all erezike was doing was a rather clumsy bait-and-switch.

i actually found it to be a rather good one.
you can easily see that many people dont even bother to the read other people posts, or even opening post 

I try to read what I can, but there are so many posts that personally attack my person, my sanity, my intelliegence (usually from the same 10 individuals) that I have been conditioned to avoid those with dissenting opinions out of fear of being marginalized.

When some one starts with a thread title like this one, as shown in my previous post of what I thought his true intentions were simply through conditioning,  hence I avoided reading it.

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 20 juillet 2013 - 11:38 .

[masster blaster]

erezike wrote...

The beginning is clearly the most terrible part of the game.
Forcing shepard to go to jail and making him express hes rather ok about it when he already know how incompetent the galaxy is, was the biggest character hijacking and stupidity forced decision making i have ever seen in a rpg.

i will counter the first responses.
Batarian - Alliance war.
A)There are many more ways to avoid a war, compensations such as money or star systems. global apology and a high bounty on shepard head. - The alliance could also publicly declare on a team to hunt shepard down.

 The alliance could have claimed shepard is under locked down waiting for a trial when infact he is still free and roaming the galaxy and kicking ass.

C) if all data coming from the batarians systems has been cut off, Who are the alliance pacifying?

D) even with the risk of war, shepard still had more important things to do, or at least  he could have left miranda or garrus incharge to keep kicking ass in his absence.

Things that would have been prevented if shepard wasnt in locked down: geth-quarrian war, Cerberus going full indoctrinated. Alliance poor preperations for war, Losing all connection with the batarians, my shepard would have checked what was going on and arrange the geth for a full attack on those harvesting facilities.

A request- please no trolling, no flaming, no messages such as. this is bioware game-deal with. please keep it mature.
Thanks for participating.

That is...... stupid. For one the Alliance would never BELIEVE Shepard until the Reapers actually came in kicking their assets. Cerberus was gone after the events of Arrival. Six months it's been wehn your Shepard was on Earth,  and right after Arrival Cerberus fully became Indoctrinated and Omega was lost. You could have not stopped Cerberus from going full Indoctrinated. How the hell can you prevent loosing connection with the Batarians! THeir goverment and a good portion of their people were INDOCTRINTED! Their home plaent was the FIRST to be hit with out warning.


Garrus WAS prepareing for the Reapers! He went back home and tried to prepare for the war! Wrex, jack, Jacob, and the people that you helped along the way were. Miranda had to go into hiding. She's good, but Cerberus is after her, and if she let's her guard down by trying to help the galaxy she could have died, or been captuered.


That is STUPID! Yes tell the Batarins that Shepard is locked up, and then five minutes later Shepard is seen on the Citadel! It would only cause more motivation for the Batarians to attack.

Put a bounty on Shepard's head.......really? You know how many races would go after Shepard. Shepard would have no time to prepare the galaxy, nor have time to rest.


Well what the hell do you expect the Allaince to do. Shepard " worked" for Cerberus. The Council, the Quarians, and many more races HATE Cerberus. They can't over look the fact that Shepard worked for them, or the fact if you played Arrival Shepard DID in fact kill 300,000 Batarians even though you can try save them. Yet in the end they die by Shepard's hands. Now giving them a star system and money may easy the problem, but 300,000 of their kin died. They would want Shepard to face up for his/her crimes.

Oh and to answer your question well the fact that everything you learned from ME1 through almost 99.8 percent of ME3 was trashed, and we got this Reaper leader giving us his bs of a logic, and the 3/4 endings are stupid.

Modifié par masster blaster, 21 juillet 2013 - 04:53 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

masster blaster wrote...

Oh and to answer your question well the fact that everything you learned from ME1 through almost 99.8 percent of ME3 was trashed, and we got this Reaper leader giving us his bs of a logic, and the 3/4 endings are stupid.

Let's also never forget that the Reapers "let" us win...

Never forget.  The Reapers were never defeated, they gave up... star kid sold them out.

[AlanC9]

erezike wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...


Exactly what is it you're proposing ME3 should have done? Have the Reapers not show up and then..... what?

Reapers are looking for a way to enter the galaxy, there were many ways to set this up.
Lets talk about another succesful story, Game of thrones- in game of thrones the bigbad is one the sidelines most of the time. im working on my own alternate version of how things could have enrolled. there are many other alternate possibilities. in me3 it seems they went with the forced railroad- character hijacking, watered down past decisions galaxy turning stupid, a lot of big explosions and a reaper off switch..
How good did that story go?

I'm still waiting for an actual idea.

[Erez Kristal]

AlanC9 wrote...

erezike wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...


Exactly what is it you're proposing ME3 should have done? Have the Reapers not show up and then..... what?

Reapers are looking for a way to enter the galaxy, there were many ways to set this up.
Lets talk about another succesful story, Game of thrones- in game of thrones the bigbad is one the sidelines most of the time. im working on my own alternate version of how things could have enrolled. there are many other alternate possibilities. in me3 it seems they went with the forced railroad- character hijacking, watered down past decisions galaxy turning stupid, a lot of big explosions and a reaper off switch..
How good did that story go?

I'm still waiting for an actual idea.

You are welcome to join to our rewrite team if you promise to keep it mature, which you usually do, 

[Erez Kristal]

masster blaster wrote...

That is...... stupid. For one the Alliance would never BELIEVE Shepard until the Reapers actually came in kicking their assets. Cerberus was gone after the events of Arrival. Six months it's been wehn your Shepard was on Earth,  and right after Arrival Cerberus fully became Indoctrinated and Omega was lost. You could have not stopped Cerberus from going full Indoctrinated. How the hell can you prevent loosing connection with the Batarians! THeir goverment and a good portion of their people were INDOCTRINTED! Their home plaent was the FIRST to be hit with out warning.


Garrus WAS prepareing for the Reapers! He went back home and tried to prepare for the war! Wrex, jack, Jacob, and the people that you helped along the way were. Miranda had to go into hiding. She's good, but Cerberus is after her, and if she let's her guard down by trying to help the galaxy she could have died, or been captuered.


That is STUPID! Yes tell the Batarins that Shepard is locked up, and then five minutes later Shepard is seen on the Citadel! It would only cause more motivation for the Batarians to attack.

Put a bounty on Shepard's head.......really? You know how many races would go after Shepard. Shepard would have no time to prepare the galaxy, nor have time to rest.


Well what the hell do you expect the Allaince to do. Shepard " worked" for Cerberus. The Council, the Quarians, and many more races HATE Cerberus. They can't over look the fact that Shepard worked for them, or the fact if you played Arrival Shepard DID in fact kill 300,000 Batarians even though you can try save them. Yet in the end they die by Shepard's hands. Now giving them a star system and money may easy the problem, but 300,000 of their kin died. They would want Shepard to face up for his/her crimes.

Oh and to answer your question well the fact that everything you learned from ME1 through almost 99.8 percent of ME3 was trashed, and we got this Reaper leader giving us his bs of a logic, and the 3/4 endings are stupid.

the alliance and council high ups already believed the reapers, they is why they covered it up from the public and kept public control, you had too many artifacts throughout history and spectre reports who indicated on the reapers arrival. (arrival project was one of them)


 a shepard who was in co existence with cerberus had more influence than you think and could have stopped tim from going to the edge. (which happens du to anderson and the turians actions)
You can figture out what is going on with the batarian by sending spy ships like the normandy... thats what you do in war and peace. you spy on your enemies and allies.

Even if miranda no longer worked with shepard she could have still operated the normandy with the rest of the dirty doezen. and if she were still working with cerberus and shepard didnt turn himself in, then there would be no situation  to contain.

-shepard is locked up and 5 minutes later hes brokering secret peace treaties between the geth which idolize him and the quarrians, 10 minutes later hes on covert up missions. there are so many ways to stay undercover. i find this all notion ridiculous. face the facts the only reason shepard was grounded in the first placve was in order to promote hacket and for the current leadership to stay in power against terra firma, maybe the alliance leadership was even indoctrianted and taking shepard out of the game was their best move. sound ridiculous right? but that the only thing which make sense in this stupidity. i can deal with alliance stupidity but not shepard. because we are supposed to roleplay shepard, and him getting locked on earth was the stupidest thing ever happen in mass effect.

-if shepard isnt locked up then a bounty is the right way to go.
No time to rest? are you serious? he has a stealth ship. he can skip a few boring wards on the citadel.

The batarians know the alliance are behind the operation, however they dont know shepard had anything to do with it.
They have supervised alliance operations in that system and also captured kenson and her team. shepard is just a scape goat for the alliance which makes it less likely that the batarains will settle just for shepard. the batarians know shepard is just a scam. but they never wanted to attack in the first place.
shepard is governing hacket promotion and nothing else.  giving the batarians money and starsystems setteling rights is the only thing which really have any influence in politics. and which is why the dispute between the alliance and the batarians started in the first place.



Just look at the results in the intro, and ask yourself if shepard could have done anything else in order to make the galaxy better prepared for the reapers.

If you think there is nothing else you could do but sit around in vancouver then i really pity your leadership skills.

[KaiserShep]

Don't forget Anderson, who jumps from Councilor to Admiral in just 6 months while Shepard presumably remains in what sounds a lot like solitary confinement. If I was Shepard, the Alliance would never have seen the Normandy in the Sol system.

[Patchwork]

If you import a Shepard without Arrival being played the reason for being held on Earth is even more flimsy. Yes Shepard worked with Cerberus but with the Reapers on their way and two years spent dead would Shepard really decide to do jail time?

Modifié par Ser Bard, 21 juillet 2013 - 08:27 .

[KaiserShep]

Yeah, the Arrival is almost a necessity for it to matter more, because when Anderson says "The s*** you've done", the first thing that pops into my mind is "Oh you mean save trillions of people? Thanks a lot, you bastard."

[dorktainian]

KaiserShep wrote...

Don't forget Anderson, who jumps from Councilor to Admiral in just 6 months while Shepard presumably remains in what sounds a lot like solitary confinement. If I was Shepard, the Alliance would never have seen the Normandy in the Sol system.

never understood that one.  he could have just told hackett to jog on.  humanity obviously wasnt bothered about saving shep so why should shep give a rats arse about humanity?

[mopotter]

AlanC9 wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Do the job of destroying the reapers one way and they die, you and some or all of your team survive to help build again.  Do the job another way and loses increase, Shepard can die to win or everyone can die.  Do it differently and the reapers run back to their dark space and someone will have to follow them in some future instalment.  Instead there are 3 choices and it really made no difference what i did, it was always the same.  

What you were expecting sounds like less variation than what we got.

I guess if you didn't like the way ME2 was set up, that would be true, but that's one thing I really enjoyed about ME2.
And, they could have left the blue and green endings in.  I'd have picked synergy in one for a play through where Tali & Legion didn't co-operate since I liked both of them.  I'd never choose the control option and admit, I have a destroy them preference.  There were a number of problems, but if the ending had worked better for me I'd still be playing.  Maybe in a few years I'll try it again. 

[AlanC9]

If blue and green stay then the proposal makes sense. Though I'm not sure why red gets variations and blue and green don't, although blue already does come in Renegade and Paragon flavors.

[AlanC9]

erezike wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
That's usually true. I do it a bunch myself, though I'd never actually start a thread that way.

But in this case, all erezike was doing was a rather clumsy bait-and-switch.

i actually found it to be a rather good one.
you can easily see that many people dont even bother to the read other people posts, or even opening post 

You would think that, of course.

But hell, by now everyone should know what to expect from one of your threads. I didn't mean to sound particularly critical there; this is just what you do.

[AlanC9]

Eryri wrote...

I often think that a smaller scale Reaper invasion would have worked better. Harbinger and a few elite Reapers using their last reserves of energy in a desperate attempt to open some sort of unstable wormhole back to the galaxy, half killing themselves in the process. They would still be dangerous, all the more so for being wounded animals, but not so overwhelming that the only way to resolve the plot would be through quasi-magical superweapons.

The plot of ME3 could have been Shepard hunting down and destroying this expeditionary force before they repaired themselves, and made another assault on the prime relay at the Citadel to bring in the invasion proper.

Well, at least this is an actual idea. It's not all that bad, actually. Of course, you don't actually ever destroy the Reapers this way, just the expeditionary force. How is the situation at the end of ME3 any different from the situation at the end of ME1?

[DarthLaxian]

Well - the ends were the worst part (my first reaction to playing the game to the end was: "and where is the real ending?"), but yeah, the thing about sheppard being in jail was:

that it was un-avoidable (even for people who would never have their sheppard do arrival - which makes arrival canon (which in itself is bad IMHO) and takes away player agency, too (you decide if you go to jail or stay away (maybe you show up to your trial - in full combat gear...that would be something i would have liked: you go to the trial, but you might do it your way - and maybe even with evidence, help (the help depends on what you did in ME1 and 2)...that would be cool, but no, you sit in jail (something my shep would NEVER CONSENT TO - at least not if the Alliance does SQUAT to prepare for the reapers!)

greetings LAX