164 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolfspawn]

I like both, but I prefer The Witcher 2. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say The Witcher 2 is one of the best RPGs of all time.

Also, why compare Mass Effect 3 and The Witcher 2? They're nothing alike.

[Cainhurst Crow]

EntropicAngel wrote...

GTFO

These topics need to DIE, just DIE already. Sheesh.

I agree. A story isn't everything there is in playing a video game or rpg, it's merely a part of a bigger picture.

The components, to me, for a good rpg or game in general are as follows.

Equal parts
1. Story
2. Gameplay
3. Voice acting

Additional elements that help the story but aren't neccisary.
1. Enviroments
2. Aesthetics
3. Side mission types and how they are orginized/paced
4. Logical solutions or scenarios(when a story needs a conflict, expect logic to take a back seat as one if created.)
5. Dialouge Choices or Choices in game
6. Difficulty to play

The witcher wins in story, but loses to me in every other category besides side missions. The enviroments feel smaller in witcher than mass effect, less varied. I find the witches aesthetics to be very ugly, maybe realistic for medievil europe, but medievil europe was still a **** looking era. lol at logic, geralt doesn't have any blood on his weapon or himself, and the only other person in here with them has mysteriously dissapeared and left his blindfold and walkng stick behind, obviously geralt killed the king. Voice acting for everyone not in geralt's main circle sound either too similar to eachother, or too bland to care about. Gameplay is extremly difficult and frustrating to work with, even on easy, but my experience is on the xbox, so it might be slanted a bit. However, I feel the method of selecting magic and tools or traps or whatever in combat isn't handled well, espically since things don't pause, but only slow down matrix style, making it ever harder to work with the hard and badly layed out control scheme of the game. Most of the choices, at least for dialouge for geralt, don't vary that much or have that much impact on what happens. It can be pretty distracting at times.

This is my subjective view at least, so if you don't agree, well, I guess you don't agree.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 20 juillet 2013 - 08:37 .

[Tommy6860]

Why would anyone truly into storytelling in games compare to completely disparate themes in storytelling? All you did was post a kinda pseudo-preference for two games while also making a pseudo-choice. Personally, for role playing, ME3 was the best of all of the series, but ME was the best of all of the series because it didn't end with total uncertainty and only the choice I made at the exact end of ME3 change the story a bit; ME did not do that.

For me, that's a big no-no. Mass Effect was awesome in that aspect, so it wins out. As far a TW2, I just cannot, nor could I get into that game no matter how hard I tried. Yes, the characters are great. The story is awesome. But when I cannot customize my character and am forced down a path where I can choose outcomes, but not my character's being, I get lost on the game. I got about half-way thru TW2 and gave up. TW1 felt better and I did not want to play out the same kind of game again. But, that is me.

Having said that TW and ME both have great story-lines.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 20 juillet 2013 - 08:50 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

The Witcher 2:
The good:
- Very nice graphics. Pretty much the only reason I kept on playing after Act 1...
- Doesn't hold back when it comes to "mature" (will get back to that) content.

The bad:
- Combat. Roll, roll, roll, slash, roll, roll, slash, slash, roll. Lame.
- The story, setting and characters. Did nothing for me. Really really bad. The two points below played a huge role in that..
- Fetch quests. The entire game feels like one huge fetch quest.
- Trying too hard to be mature and failing. Lots of boobs and swearing in every sentence doesn't make your game seem more mature. It just ends up making it all seem a bit comical.
- Had an overall generic feeling to everything. It just feels like the usual RPG stuff to me.

Mass Effect 3:
Good:
- The story. While I did kinda miss the free feeling of ME1 and 2, it did have a pretty nice pacing with some amazing moments on Tuchanka, Rannoch and the Cerberus base.
- The characters and writing in general. The game knows that it's kinda cheesy in places and I can live with that. Characters are way more interesting than the ones in The Witcher, that's for sure. At least here, I actually cared about them.
- Good combat with many ways to play.
- Amazing sound design. Some of the best I've ever heard in any game.
- The overall atmosphere. I know some people don't like the mood of ME3, but I think BW nailed it. The game also has the best soundtrack of the trilogy.
- The ending after the Extended Cut and the Citadel DLC. An amazing ending to one of the best video game trilogies of all time.

The bad:
- The ending before the Extended Cut. Such a wreck.
- Intro could have been longer. Not really much of a build up there. Why not show the trial?! Why not show Shepard being taken to Earth? Why not show a recap of his time in 'prison'? Seriously, it all just feels slightly rushed.
- The battle for earth could have used more of the troops you spent the entire game picking up. I know that most of them are in other places, but having a few Rachni or a Geth or two fighting alongside you in London would've been nice.

So all in all, ME3 is the superior game. It might not be as pretty as Wither 2, but at least it was actually interesting to play.

Modifié par Brovikk Rasputin, 20 juillet 2013 - 09:16 .

[Addai]

Witcher 2 is usual rpg stuff? Wow. I'd like to know what rpg's you're playing that have such a sophisticated political story line.

[xNYROx]

Addai67 wrote...

Witcher 2 is usual rpg stuff? Wow. I'd like to know what rpg's you're playing that have such a sophisticated political story line.

How about the game the creaters admitted they got the political idea off of and built on it? Morrowind. TeS games have always had high focus on the political undertones of society. Surely you didn't miss that? Politics and racism are a huge part of the Elder Scrolls games.

Matter of fact, Morrowind was also a world in political strife very much so. I mean it would not be hard to point out similarities and I am sure the list would number in the hundreds if we tried.

Modifié par xNYROx, 20 juillet 2013 - 10:19 .

[IntoTheDarkness]

xNYROx wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Witcher 2 is usual rpg stuff? Wow. I'd like to know what rpg's you're playing that have such a sophisticated political story line.

How about the game the creaters admitted they got the political idea off of and built on it? Morrowind. TeS games have always had high focus on the political undertones of society. Surely you didn't miss that? Politics and racism are a huge part of the Elder Scrolls games.

Matter of fact, Morrowind was also a world in political strife very much so. I mean it would not be hard to point out similarities and I am sure the list would number in the hundreds if we tried.

Morrowind politics isn't as complicated nor refined as TW2's politics. TW2 literally has over 10 factions *actively* vying and plotting to push their interest where as in Morrowind it's pretty much static, generic power struggle between many identical religious, house factions. TW2 has no equals in this field of portraying political intrigues. Game of Thones RPG comes close.

[Tommy6860]

Addai67 wrote...

Witcher 2 is usual rpg stuff? Wow. I'd like to know what rpg's you're playing that have such a sophisticated political story line.

Is that the only game where politcal sophistication means something to you? Seriously, the ES series has that in it. Mass Effect, Dragon age and Deus Ex especially as well. I could go on and on. You're bringing something into the discussion that's relevant to many games that have deep storylines.

Modifié par Tommy6860, 20 juillet 2013 - 10:28 .

[IntoTheDarkness]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

The Witcher 2:
The bad:
- The story, setting and characters. Did nothing for me. Really really bad. The two points below played a huge role in that..

Mass Effect 3:
Good:
- The story. While I did kinda miss the free feeling of ME1 and 2, it did have a pretty nice pacing with some amazing moments on Tuchanka, Rannoch and the Cerberus base.
 

I respect your opinion but I can't possibly imagine why....

TW2 is widely praised for its story. IMO, it has no flaws in plots at all.


ME3? Didn't idle Harbinger during Normandy evacuation scene and triple-dozens of similar broken logic moments bother you at all? Unless you loved space magic, that is. (joking)

[IntoTheDarkness]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Witcher 2 is usual rpg stuff? Wow. I'd like to know what rpg's you're playing that have such a sophisticated political story line.

Is that the only game where politcal sophistication means something to you? Seriously, the ES series has that in it. Mass Effect, Dragon age and Deus Ex especially as well. I could go on and on. You're bringing something into the discussion that's relevant to many games that have deep storylines.

IMO...

ME politics are a joke. Just look at Cerberus magically turning into a galactic empire from a pro-human splinter organization and the council flipping their opinion in every sequel. (also compare the final confrontation with TIM and the link I posted above. Geralt's conversation with a side character is way more sophisticated and in depth than ME3's final battle of words.)



DA politics: Good vs Evil, mages vs templars. TW2 has much more of "such a sophisticated political story line" as Addai wrote.

Deus Ex too does dabble in political themes but it's nowhere as good as TW2. TW2 has no precedence.

Modifié par IntoTheDarkness, 20 juillet 2013 - 10:40 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

The Witcher 2:
The bad:
- The story, setting and characters. Did nothing for me. Really really bad. The two points below played a huge role in that..

Mass Effect 3:
Good:
- The story. While I did kinda miss the free feeling of ME1 and 2, it did have a pretty nice pacing with some amazing moments on Tuchanka, Rannoch and the Cerberus base.
 

I respect your opinion but I can't possibly imagine why....

TW2 is widely praised for its story. IMO, it has no flaws in plots at all.


ME3? Didn't idle Harbinger during Normandy evacuation scene and triple-dozens of similar broken logic moments bother you at all? Unless you loved space magic, that is. (joking)

I'm not denying that ME3 has got quite a few problems with its plot, but as far as I'm concerned, the story is still way better told and way more entertaining than the one in Witcher 2. The Witcher 2 is widely praised indeed, but after playing it, I have no idea why. It's a mediocre RPG hiding behind fancy graphics.

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

hm..
ME3:I've played it
TW2:I haven't played it

If TW2 is anywhere near as bad as the TW1 then ME3 is much better

[KnightofPhoenix]

urgh nevermind, not worth the effort.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 juillet 2013 - 10:49 .

[xNYROx]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

xNYROx wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Witcher 2 is usual rpg stuff? Wow. I'd like to know what rpg's you're playing that have such a sophisticated political story line.

How about the game the creaters admitted they got the political idea off of and built on it? Morrowind. TeS games have always had high focus on the political undertones of society. Surely you didn't miss that? Politics and racism are a huge part of the Elder Scrolls games.

Matter of fact, Morrowind was also a world in political strife very much so. I mean it would not be hard to point out similarities and I am sure the list would number in the hundreds if we tried.

Morrowind politics isn't as complicated nor refined as TW2's politics. TW2 literally has over 10 factions *actively* vying and plotting to push their interest where as in Morrowind it's pretty much static, generic power struggle between many identical religious, house factions. TW2 has no equals in this field of portraying political intrigues. Game of Thones RPG comes close.

This is 100% false please go back and re-play it. The rivalries are VERY in-depth and none are identical, they all have very in-depth background stories also. Not to mention morrowind incorperates many political moves such as alliances,marriages,thefts of idols and many other things to gain political edge over your rival faction.
It did ALL of this and was what...5 years older? That makes TW2 look bad honestly. It made mild improvements on an existing idea and people bump it as if it made huge strides?

Aside from that how you think the factions are identical is mind boggling. They each have background, seperate ethics, seperate idols, different religious structures(if any) and different waysof gaining the political edge. The entire game of morrowind is political. I mean, you were betrayed by someone who was afraid you(neverene) would come to power, sent off after an unfair trial and returned years later and released to save the world and regain your rightful spot to power. That in itself makes the MAIN story political even seeing as there are also 3 factions trying to overthrow your success and you can't always "fight" your way to the top. Some quests require a sharp tongue to succeed. I can go on and on explaining why the game is a political game but we would be here forever. My suggestion is go back and play it because I don't think you remember it right.

I mean as i said before TW2 added on to the system but the groundwork was layed already.
 
EDIT: Didn't mean for this to sound disrespectful, I just think you may have missed some key parts to the game and that you would enjoy a thorough play threw one more time.

Modifié par xNYROx, 20 juillet 2013 - 11:12 .

[Il Divo]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Morrowind politics isn't as complicated nor refined as TW2's politics. TW2 literally has over 10 factions *actively* vying and plotting to push their interest where as in Morrowind it's pretty much static, generic power struggle between many identical religious, house factions. TW2 has no equals in this field of portraying political intrigues. Game of Thones RPG comes close.

They're pretty far from identical.

What sets Morrowind apart (and far above) the Witcher is how you have this one event: the battle of Red Mountain around which the entire game is set and you have a good number of perspectives on what actually happened up there. You have the Ashlanders' tribes, Dagoth Ur's account, Vivec's account, the Temple's overly simplistic account.

Morrowind also brings an interesting twist to the mix with the Empire entering the picture. You have some groups like House Hlaalu actively welcoming them and others like House Redoran trying to push them out.

Granted, it's never going to beat the Witcher on cinematic presentation, but simply in terms of the politics/narrative being told there's no comparison (imo).

One issue I do have with the Witcher is that while people often praise its political plots, I find that you can spend quite a bit of time involved in other random schemes. Dealing with that Kraken monster or Henselt's curse. Yeah, I get that this is what Geralt actually does for a living, but killing random monsters vs. political intrigue? I could have done with less of the former.

Modifié par Il Divo, 20 juillet 2013 - 10:56 .

[Tommy6860]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Witcher 2 is usual rpg stuff? Wow. I'd like to know what rpg's you're playing that have such a sophisticated political story line.

Is that the only game where politcal sophistication means something to you? Seriously, the ES series has that in it. Mass Effect, Dragon age and Deus Ex especially as well. I could go on and on. You're bringing something into the discussion that's relevant to many games that have deep storylines.

IMO...

ME politics are a joke. Just look at Cerberus magically turning into a galactic empire from a pro-human splinter organization and the council flipping their opinion in every sequel. (also compare the final confrontation with TIM and the link I posted above. Geralt's conversation with a side character is way more sophisticated and in depth than ME3's final battle of words.)



DA politics: Good vs Evil, mages vs templars. TW2 has much more of "such a sophisticated political story line" as Addai wrote.

Deus Ex too does dabble in political themes but it's nowhere as good as TW2. TW2 has no precedence.

How much experience do you have with gaming going back, let's say 20 years?  TW2's story is very good as I posted before, but it isn't worth much more from a gameplay aspect, it therefor loses relevance in being a good story. There are only humans in the game, yet there are dragons? That takes away from what most do in game through "suspension of disbelief". Whether or not you think the politics on the game are better is only relevant to you, while you offered no counter argument with a game thoroughly compared. ME has incredble politics. Not only that it carried over through the series better than TW2 and remained consistent.  As I said before, there are many games that involve politics where one chooses a faction or side and has relevance to the game, but overall gameplay along with a good storyline make it so..

IMO, Dragon Age: Origins beats the crap out of TW2. So does many of the older RPGs, like PS:T, BG1 & 2 where those games are heavily involved in their schemes as well as having way more dialogue, which makes political schemes more palatable. If you think it's better, that is your opinion, I repect that, but not from some realization that it is better in politics than many other game I have experieneced.

[Tommy6860]

Il Divo wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Morrowind politics isn't as complicated nor refined as TW2's politics. TW2 literally has over 10 factions *actively* vying and plotting to push their interest where as in Morrowind it's pretty much static, generic power struggle between many identical religious, house factions. TW2 has no equals in this field of portraying political intrigues. Game of Thones RPG comes close.

They're pretty far from identical.

What sets Morrowind apart (and far above) the Witcher is how you have this one event: the battle of Red Mountain around which the entire game is set and you have a good number of perspectives on what actually happened up there. You have the Ashlanders' tribes, Dagoth Ur's account, Vivec's account, the Temple's overly simplistic account.

Morrowind also brings an interesting twist to the mix with the Empire entering the picture. You have some groups like House Hlaalu actively welcoming them and others like House Redoran trying to push them out.

Granted, it's never going to beat the Witcher on cinematic presentation, but simply in terms of the politics/narrative being told there's no comparison (imo).

One issue I do have with the Witcher is that while people often praise its political plots, I find that you can spend quite a bit of time involved in other random schemes. Dealing with that Kraken monster or Henselt's curse. Yeah, I get that this is what Geralt actually does for a living, but killing random monsters vs. political intrigue? I could have done with less of the former.

+10 internets!

Modifié par Tommy6860, 20 juillet 2013 - 10:57 .

[Ridwan]

Compare them how? One has swords, the other has guns. One is the third in the series, the other the second. One has a customisable hero, the other a fixed one.

[xNYROx]

Il Divo wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Morrowind politics isn't as complicated nor refined as TW2's politics. TW2 literally has over 10 factions *actively* vying and plotting to push their interest where as in Morrowind it's pretty much static, generic power struggle between many identical religious, house factions. TW2 has no equals in this field of portraying political intrigues. Game of Thones RPG comes close.

They're pretty far from identical.

What sets Morrowind apart (and far above) the Witcher is how you have this one event: the battle of Red Mountain around which the entire game is set and you have a good number of perspectives on what actually happened up there. You have the Ashlanders' tribes, Dagoth Ur's account, Vivec's account, the Temple's overly simplistic account.

Morrowind also brings an interesting twist to the mix with the Empire entering the picture. You have some groups like House Hlaalu actively welcoming them and others like House Redoran trying to push them out.

Granted, it's never going to beat the Witcher on cinematic presentation, but simply in terms of the politics/narrative being told there's no comparison (imo).

One issue I do have with the Witcher is that while people often praise its political plots, I find that you can spend quite a bit of time involved in other random schemes. Dealing with that Kraken monster or Henselt's curse. Yeah, I get that this is what Geralt actually does for a living, but killing random monsters vs. political intrigue? I could have done with less of the former.

I wish they set it up more kind of van helsing style where there is more focus on the contract of killing a specific monster itself. Like, you go into town, talk to towns people, gain intel on a monsters weaknesses,wearabouts etc....then go hunt for it. The series was good but not what i wanted it to be

[wolfsite]

They are two completely different game types in two completely different style settings with completely different gameplay styles..... they can't really be compared.

People will like and dislike one game just as they will like and dislike another game.

[Blooddrunk1004]

You are insulting Witcher 2 just by comparing ME3 to it.

[Dutchess]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Witcher 2 is usual rpg stuff? Wow. I'd like to know what rpg's you're playing that have such a sophisticated political story line.

Is that the only game where politcal sophistication means something to you? Seriously, the ES series has that in it. Mass Effect, Dragon age and Deus Ex especially as well. I could go on and on. You're bringing something into the discussion that's relevant to many games that have deep storylines.

Dragon Age's "political" plot is pretty much a joke, as is ME's. I do not claim to be an expert on politics at all, but even I could come up with the basic conflicts those games have to offer. Especially when DA2's politics are mentioned I can't help but stare at my screen in disbelief. I really enjoyed DAO, and had a decent amount of fun with the ME series as well, but I honestly do not understand how people can claim that TW2's writing is of lesser quality. It's really, really good, and trying to dismiss it based on the few "boobs" that are shown and some swearing is doing it injustice.

[Seboist]

renjility wrote...

Tommy6860 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Witcher 2 is usual rpg stuff? Wow. I'd like to know what rpg's you're playing that have such a sophisticated political story line.

Is that the only game where politcal sophistication means something to you? Seriously, the ES series has that in it. Mass Effect, Dragon age and Deus Ex especially as well. I could go on and on. You're bringing something into the discussion that's relevant to many games that have deep storylines.

Dragon Age's "political" plot is pretty much a joke, as is ME's. I do not claim to be an expert on politics at all, but even I could come up with the basic conflicts those games have to offer. Especially when DA2's politics are mentioned I can't help but stare at my screen in disbelief. I really enjoyed DAO, and had a decent amount of fun with the ME series as well, but I honestly do not understand how people can claim that TW2's writing is of lesser quality. It's really, really good, and trying to dismiss it based on the few "boobs" that are shown and some swearing is doing it injustice.

Yeah, Mr. House's rationale for not wanting the NCR president killed in New Vegas is better politics than everything in ME1-3 put together.

[billy the squid]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Witcher 2 is usual rpg stuff? Wow. I'd like to know what rpg's you're playing that have such a sophisticated political story line.

Is that the only game where politcal sophistication means something to you? Seriously, the ES series has that in it. Mass Effect, Dragon age and Deus Ex especially as well. I could go on and on. You're bringing something into the discussion that's relevant to many games that have deep storylines.

The ES series has done the various factions well in terms of detail in each faction, as well as their agendas, and political leanings, Skyrim is a good example. But it's never shown in the game itself, you never deal with it, or at least not on a significant level geo political level, it's discussed and explained in books and back stories. But, beyond the rising to prominence of your character, the actual politics of the region are left hanging.

Politics in Mass effect pfffffft. What one considers politics in ME is a steaming pile of crap by comparison. It doesn't even try to deal with intergalactic politics, and come sat the bottom of the heap. It's fine if the game didn't really intend to deal with it in more that a passing fancy as background. Saying it's better that the TW2, ES or even DA is daft. 

DA2's politics is horse ****, there's no other word for it. And DAO is mediocre, focusing on the player, with the politics playinfg second fiddle in the back ground, the game being the standard fantasy trope.

Deaus Ex HR has espionage and factionalism, it raises some interesting points and I enjoyed the various agendas of groups, Corporations and the examination of the divide between augments and non augments. 

TW2 I actually have to resort to a flow chart to explain the politics so I don't cover a page of detailed explaination regarding the possible outcomes, and that's not even starting with giving details of the various factions and kingdoms throughout the game, which are more detailed that the ES series has delivered and, the ES series puts ME and DA to shame.

Modifié par billy the squid, 20 juillet 2013 - 01:16 .

[Naughty Bear]

I prefer the ME universe. Just a shame it's a mass graveyard.