164 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

EntropicAngel wrote...

You list the politics as better. I already admitted that. But I feel the ME universe is more alive than The Witcher ever was. The Witcher, either of them, feel very small. ME has far better scale, has a better sense of a world.

A world that makes no sense isn't alive.  As of ME3, the ME universe lost all coherence, though even in ME2 you were starting to see the strain from a meta-arc that was not well thought out.

[Addai]

xNYROx wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Witcher 2 is usual rpg stuff? Wow. I'd like to know what rpg's you're playing that have such a sophisticated political story line.

How about the game the creaters admitted they got the political idea off of and built on it? Morrowind. TeS games have always had high focus on the political undertones of society. Surely you didn't miss that? Politics and racism are a huge part of the Elder Scrolls games.

Matter of fact, Morrowind was also a world in political strife very much so. I mean it would not be hard to point out similarities and I am sure the list would number in the hundreds if we tried.

I've never heard them say that.  It would be interesting if they did, though I don't see immediate parallels, and I somehow doubt that Andrzej Sapkowski took inspiration from Elder Scrolls.  His world is late medieval politics, very recognizably so.

[Zekka]

Degs29 wrote...

leslie2233 wrote...
No Morality system

Not sure that's how I would put it.

More like the morality system isn't black and white like it is in Mass Effect.

What I meant was that there is no point system that keeps track of how many good or bad choices you make like paragon or renegade.

[Dutchess]

leslie2233 wrote...

Degs29 wrote...

leslie2233 wrote...
No Morality system

Not sure that's how I would put it.

More like the morality system isn't black and white like it is in Mass Effect.

What I meant was that there is no point system that keeps track of how many good or bad choices you make like paragon or renegade.

Which is because there are no "good" or "bad" choices. They are morally grey, it's up to the player to decide which values are most important, or which is the lesser evil. Though Geralt does reflect on some of the choices he made in TW1, and can come to the conclusion that he did not make the "right" choice (going with Vesemir instead of Triss in the prologue, leaving Abigail to the mob, giving the supplies to the Scoia'Tael). I'm not sure what additional value morality points would have, since most of the choices still consist of options that aren't clearly right or wrong, good or evil.

[Il Divo]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mass Effect:
Mass Effect is a tragic example of something that started great and had a lot of potential but ended in a disaster. Mass Effect starts off great. The protagonist seems interesting, the antagonist is interesting and the plot is what you expect from a sci-fi space-opera. The reapers are also very interesting enemies in ME1 and I was really curious what to expect next from this (so far) brilliant story.

You lost me at brilliant story. Mass Effect 1's plot is serviceable, sure, but nothing special and comes with its own host of problems.

[Blooddrunk1004]

renjility wrote...

Which is because there are no "good" or "bad" choices. They are morally grey, it's up to the player to decide which values are most important, or which is the lesser evil. Though Geralt does reflect on some of the choices he made in TW1, and can come to the conclusion that he did not make the "right" choice (going with Vesemir instead of Triss in the prologue, leaving Abigail to the mob, giving the supplies to the Scoia'Tael). I'm not sure what additional value morality points would have, since most of the choices still consist of options that aren't clearly right or wrong, good or evil.

This is why The Witcher series will always better then ME.
ME barely ever had any grey decision and even those were really easy to decide, since they never had any outcome. I was starring at my screen for at least 10 minutes when there was a choice between letting Roche kill Henselt or convince him not to. In the end i spared him, because i didn't want Roche and Geralt to become what Letho is.

Another good example is Aryan La Valette choice. The first time i played when i told him to surrender i expected him to attack me, hell even Geralt  tells him that he can't give him any guarantee that Foltest won't hurt his family. If this was ME we would be forced to either give him sugar daddy talk aka paragon or **** and threats speech aka renegade. But no, Geralt talks to him like normal human would, saying that he is stupid if he will fight and gives him a chance to save his men and they actually drop their swords. Mass Effect trilogy never handled any
choices like that.

Shepard always has Jedi speech whether he is paragon or renegade. And yes i know Geralt also has a tool which allows him to persuade other people, however it's based on luck and it doesn't even work in few cases + he also knows magic which makes sense for character like him.  ME forces you into one path, spam top and bottom choices or go to hell. No extra choices for neutral Shepards but if their paragon or renegade meter is high enough they just press X to win, Game of the ****ing Year!

[Il Divo]

Btw, can someone explain to me in a bit of detail the whole subplot with Yennefer and the Wild Hunt? I'm replaying Witcher 2 right now (thanks for that OP) and this is one element that I still find confusing.

Very simply:

1) What is the Wild Hunt? Is it supernatural?

2) How exactly did Geralt come back to life?

[Il Divo]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Well Letho sparing Geralt might be considered jeopordizing the mission. Also, Letho freed Triss from the Nilfgaardians and protected her from them, for Geralt (if you don't save her yourself). 

Wait, I'm a touch confused on this point, with that link you sent me, didn't you mention the Nilfgaardian Emperor wanting Geralt to stay alive? I could've sworn that was a key point in one of your posts regarding Shilard.

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

leslie2233 wrote...
Geralt can't really be changed to fit your peronality

While true...I have to say, by ME3 I did feel like Geralt was a lot more under my control than Shepard was. :S

[RobRam10]

hmm comparing a trilogy with a game franchise that hasn't release its third game.. smart.

Modifié par RobRam10, 21 juillet 2013 - 10:58 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Il Divo wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Mass Effect:
Mass Effect is a tragic example of something that started great and had a lot of potential but ended in a disaster. Mass Effect starts off great. The protagonist seems interesting, the antagonist is interesting and the plot is what you expect from a sci-fi space-opera. The reapers are also very interesting enemies in ME1 and I was really curious what to expect next from this (so far) brilliant story.

You lost me at brilliant story. Mass Effect 1's plot is serviceable, sure, but nothing special and comes with its own host of problems.

Fair enough. I fully admit I was being overly favorable to Mass Effect. I didn't want to be too harsh on either Mass Effect or The Witcher in my analyis. You're right, ME1's story is nothing special and far from perfect, but it was fun and ME1 did most certainly manage to engage me and keep me interested from start to finish.

Il Divo wrote...

Btw, can someone explain to me in a bit of detail the whole subplot with Yennefer and the Wild Hunt? I'm replaying Witcher 2 right now (thanks for that OP) and this is one element that I still find confusing.

Very simply:

1) What is the Wild Hunt? Is it supernatural?

2) How exactly did Geralt come back to life?

1) The Wild Hunt is exactly what it is in real-life folklore. It's a specteral army of hunters who presage a catatrophe such as a war or a plague. They often kill everyone who witness them and sometimes they kidnap people for unknown reasons. Since they're specteral they're obviously supernatural of nature.

2) After Geralt died, Ciri, who was a source, used her powers to bring Geralt and Yennefer to another place far from Geralt's home. Geralt was somehow alive again (probably also due to Ciri's powers). In here, Geralt and Yennefer lived together as lovers for a long time, until somehow the Wild Hunt came barging in and kidnapped Yennefer. This made Geralt furious and he set out on a quest to save Yennefer. Geralt managed to get back to his home land, but when he reaches his home land (we see this at the intro of both The Witcher and The Witcher 2), he passes out, and wakes up with amnesia. 

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 21 juillet 2013 - 11:22 .

[Blooddrunk1004]

Il Divo wrote...

Btw, can someone explain to me in a bit of detail the whole subplot with Yennefer and the Wild Hunt? I'm replaying Witcher 2 right now (thanks for that OP) and this is one element that I still find confusing.

Very simply:

1) What is the Wild Hunt? Is it supernatural?

2) How exactly did Geralt come back to life?

1. They are specters (in Witcher 2 it's revealed they are actually elves). What is their real purpose is unknown, but they searching for powerful people. Yenn and Geralt were both victims of the Wild Hunt and de Aldersberg can also become one, if you decided to hand him to the king at the end of the Witcher 1. It also must be known that these specters cannot be killed, you can defeat them like Geralt did, but they will always return. Which makes me wonder, if they will go after Ciri in Witcher 3.

2. Yenn tries to revive him, but she uses to much magic power and results killing herself in the process. Ciri is also present there who has the power of the Elder Blood. Ciri and the unicorn revive Geralt and Yennefer and put them in a boat. Geralt and Yennefer are then taken to the Isle of Avallach (the name of the island is shown in the second game through a flashback). Ciri leaves the world because she will always be pursued by different factions like The Lodge, because of her royal blood (she is the rightful ruler of Cintra) and because she has unique powers. Pretty much everybody except for her friends want to use her.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 21 juillet 2013 - 11:22 .

[Il Divo]

^Very much appreciated, to both of you.

Just to be clear, the reason for the confusion regarding the Wild Hunt came from the Witcher Wiki:

http://witcher.wikia.../wiki/Wild_Hunt

Mentioning that the Wild Hunt was not made of Spectres, so that was a tad odd from what I'd understood about it in game.

Modifié par Il Divo, 21 juillet 2013 - 11:13 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Il Divo wrote...

^Very much appreciated, to both of you.

Just to be clear, the reason for the confusion regarding the Wild Hunt came from the Witcher Wiki:

http://witcher.wikia.../wiki/Wild_Hunt

Mentioning that the Wild Hunt was not made of Spectres, so that was a tad odd from what I'd understood about it in game.

Well I suppose that originally the Wild Hunt were not spectres but just really powerful elves, but they seem like spectres to me now so... I dunno. We'll have to see in The Witcher 3.

[Cheylus]

The nature of the Wild Hunt is explained in TW2.

(spoilers below)

It seems they are elves coming from another world (like the monsters coming from the conjonction of spheres) : they're spectral because they come as spectres (it's their spacesuit if you want), but they also come to Geralt's world as "real people" when they have a specific and important task to do (kidnap Yennefer / Geralt).

Modifié par Cheylus, 21 juillet 2013 - 11:24 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Cheylus wrote...

The nature of the Wild Hunt is explained in TW2.

(spoilers below)

It seems they are elves coming from another world (like the monsters coming from the conjonction of spheres) : they're spectral because they come as spectres (it's their spacesuit if you want), but they also come to Geralt's world as "real people" when they have a specific and important task to do (kidnap Yennefer / Geralt).

That seems like a reasonable and proper explanation. Thanks. I think I finally start to understand the nature of the Wild Hunt now.


PS: Goddamnit, now I also feel like replaying both Witcher games, even though I have a huge backlog of unplayed games that I still need/want to play. ;

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 21 juillet 2013 - 11:28 .

[Cheylus]

(spoilers)

It is also worth mentionning Geralt was one of the riders of the Hunt before his coming back.
Did he escape or did they let him go? Apparently, their main goal for now is to retrieve Ciri (sixth book). 

Modifié par Cheylus, 21 juillet 2013 - 11:31 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Cheylus wrote...

(spoilers)

It is also worth mentionning Geralt was one of the riders of the Hunt before his coming back.
Did he escape or did they let him go?

Where is this mentioned? Can't remember Geralt being part of the riders.

As far as I remember, Geralt simply pursued the Wild Hunt after they kidnapped Yeneffer, only to find himself stranded near Kaer Moren with all his memories gone. Was he part of the Hunt before he lost his memories? Where is this told?

It seems to me that they let both Geralt and Yennefer go. Or maybe Geralt struck a deal with Aen Elle that he would let Yennefer go and take Geralt in her place? Then maybe Geralt escaped afterwards?

[Blooddrunk1004]

Even though the book and game are saying "Geralt's death", i still don't think he died.
Many speculate he and Yen were on the brink of death, when Ciri used her space - bending powers to teleport them to the island of Avallach. Ciri left Geralt and Yenn because she was aware that the Wild Hunt was searching for her and she didn't want to draw specters to them.

The problem is that she didn't know Wild Hunt was already on her trail, who most likely arrived on the island way before she left. It's the only reason how specters managed to find Geralt and Yenn in the first place, since Ciri is the one they are really after.

P.S Good job changing the topic, i rather discuss the plot than silly ME vs Witcher... again

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 21 juillet 2013 - 11:50 .

[Cheylus]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Cheylus wrote...

(spoilers)

It is also worth mentionning Geralt was one of the riders of the Hunt before his coming back.
Did he escape or did they let him go?

Where is this mentioned? Can't remember Geralt being part of the riders.

As far as I remember, Geralt simply pursued the Wild Hunt after they kidnapped Yeneffer, only to find himself stranded near Kaer Moren with all his memories gone. Was he part of the Hunt before he lost his memories? Where is this told?

It seems to me that they let both Geralt and Yennefer go. Or maybe Geralt struck a deal with Aen Elle that he would let Yennefer go and take Geralt in her place? Then maybe Geralt escaped afterwards?

This is told by Cynthia in the quest "The Secrets of Loc Muinne" (which is easily the best quest I've ever done in a RPG), on Iorveth's side. Of course you're not forced to trust her, but I do. vid here
Geralt did make a deal with the Hunt for them to release Yennefer, when he hunted them with the Viper's witchers (Letho, Serrit, Auckes). He took her place in the Hunt. She was then protected by Letho, Serrit and Auckes - with no memory, but they were found by Nilfgaardians (cf. dialog with Letho). So I guess she's still in Nilfgaardians hand, without her memory, helping them...
The contact with the Hunt causes memory loss. A subsequent contact with the Hunt causes memory to come back. 

Modifié par Cheylus, 21 juillet 2013 - 11:56 .

[Dutchess]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Cheylus wrote...

(spoilers)

It is also worth mentionning Geralt was one of the riders of the Hunt before his coming back.
Did he escape or did they let him go?

Where is this mentioned? Can't remember Geralt being part of the riders.

As far as I remember, Geralt simply pursued the Wild Hunt after they kidnapped Yeneffer, only to find himself stranded near Kaer Moren with all his memories gone. Was he part of the Hunt before he lost his memories? Where is this told?

It seems to me that they let both Geralt and Yennefer go. Or maybe Geralt struck a deal with Aen Elle that he would let Yennefer go and take Geralt in her place? Then maybe Geralt escaped afterwards?

No, he actually found the Hunt, with Letho and his buddies. Geralt then made a bargain with the Hunt: his soul for Yennefer's. That is supposedly what made him lose his memory. It is not clear whether Geralt how long Geralt has been with the Wild Hunt, or that he escaped almost immediately afterwards. Anyhow, that is why he was persuded by the Hunt at the beginning of TW1, and ended up near Kaer Morhen. 
After the deal, the Hunt released Yennefer, but she had also lost her memory. Letho and the other Viper witchers took care of her, until she ended up in the hands of the Nilfgaards.

Edit: darn ninja's.

Modifié par renjility, 21 juillet 2013 - 11:55 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Even though the book and game are saying "Geralt's death", i still don't think he died.
Many speculate he and Yen were on the brink of death, when Ciri used her space - bending powers to teleport them to the island of Avallach. Ciri left Geralt and Yenn because she was aware that the Wild Hunt was searching for her and she didn't want to draw specters to them.

The problem is that she didn't know Wild Hunt was already on her trail, who most likely arrived on the island way before she left. It's the only reason how specters managed to find Geralt and Yenn in the first place, since Ciri is the one they are really after.

P.S Good job changing the topic, i rather discuss the plot than silly ME vs Witcher... again

I think the confusion around Geralt's death is because he really DID die in the books according to Andrzej Sapkowski, but the video-games retconned his death in order to bring him back as the protagonist.

Originally, The Witcher games would have had a new protagonist, but the guys at CDPR decided that they didn't want a new protagonist, they wanted Geralt, so they brought him back to life so to speak, and gave him the role as the protagonist once again in their video-games.

[Cheylus]

Geralt didn't die at the end of the last book: he died before the end but was resurrected and sent away by Ciri in the last pages, with Yennefer!
Ciri has already sent him to the Avallach Islands, and he's still a "soul with a body", he's not in some kind of paradise because he feels he's physically hurt.

Meanwhile (and that's awesome), Ciri came back to "our" world, in King Arthur's era.

Modifié par Cheylus, 21 juillet 2013 - 12:06 .

[The Heretic of Time]

Cheylus wrote...

Geralt didn't die at the end of the last book: he died before the end but was resurrected and sent away by Ciri in the last pages, with Yennefer!
Ciri has already sent him to the Avallach Islands, and he's still a "soul with a body", he's not in some kind of paradise because he feels he's physically hurt.

This is not actually true.

Sure, because of the games we can now assume that Geralt never really died, or at the very least he was brought back by Ciri, but in the actual book it's not so clear. The place where Ciri send Geralt and Yennefer could have very well been like an afterlife, the book was not clear on that.

Not to mention that Sapkowski himself said several times that Geralt is death in the "official" canon (the book canon without the games).

[Blooddrunk1004]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Originally, The Witcher games would have had a new protagonist, but the guys at CDPR decided that they didn't want a new protagonist, they wanted Geralt, so they brought him back to life so to speak, and gave him the role as the protagonist once again in their video-games.

Which was IMO a better decision. I don't think i would really feel connected to the world and book characters if i wouldn't play Geralt.

Which reminds me, if CDPR will continue with Witcher franchise (yeah i know Witcher 3 is the last part of Geralt's story) but they didn't said it's the end of the franchise. If they will decide to make more games, then they must make Ciri playable. She is my favourite character from the books and who wouldn't want to play someone who can fight with swords and use one of the most powerful magic ever.

Oh wait, female character, it won't work

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 21 juillet 2013 - 12:20 .