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[The Heretic of Time]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

Which reminds me, if CDPR will continue with Witcher franchise (yeah i know Witcher 3 is the last part of Geralt's story) but they didn't said it's the end of the franchise. If they will decide to make more games, then they must make Ciri playable. She is my favourite character from the books and who wouldn't want to play someone who can fight with swords and use one of the most powerful magic ever.

Oh wait, she is female, it won't work

I'm not a big fan of Ciri, but I think a game with her as the protagonist could definitely work.

[IntoTheDarkness]

Addai67 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

You list the politics as better. I already admitted that. But I feel the ME universe is more alive than The Witcher ever was. The Witcher, either of them, feel very small. ME has far better scale, has a better sense of a world.

A world that makes no sense isn't alive.  As of ME3, the ME universe lost all coherence, though even in ME2 you were starting to see the strain from a meta-arc that was not well thought out.

It's why I don't get the love for Mass Effect companions. I get that they are interesting personnel, but they don't act coherently(Citadel DLC, daddy issues being the primary issue before a military operation, etc) and the world they live in makes no freaking sense, effectively rendering them artificial and contrived characters. A character can look and sound cool but I don't give a damn if there existance feels artificial.

[Seboist]

Addai67 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

You list the politics as better. I already admitted that. But I feel the ME universe is more alive than The Witcher ever was. The Witcher, either of them, feel very small. ME has far better scale, has a better sense of a world.

A world that makes no sense isn't alive.  As of ME3, the ME universe lost all coherence, though even in ME2 you were starting to see the strain from a meta-arc that was not well thought out.

ME already lost all coherence with ME2  where they retconned 1's ending and decided that a bunch of inane daddy issues that have nothing to do with anything was more important than advancing the core plot. ME3 is simply the logical extension of all that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Il Divo wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Well Letho sparing Geralt might be considered jeopordizing the mission. Also, Letho freed Triss from the Nilfgaardians and protected her from them, for Geralt (if you don't save her yourself). 

Wait, I'm a touch confused on this point, with that link you sent me, didn't you mention the Nilfgaardian Emperor wanting Geralt to stay alive? I could've sworn that was a key point in one of your posts regarding Shilard.

Yes, the Emperor wants Geralt alive from what I gathered, but Shilard did not seem privy to that information. Or knew the extent to which Emhyr is adamant about this. 

It is possible that Letho was told about it, but I doubt it and in any case, Letho spared him because he owed it to him and Geralt was his friend. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 juillet 2013 - 04:13 .

[IntoTheDarkness]

Seboist wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

You list the politics as better. I already admitted that. But I feel the ME universe is more alive than The Witcher ever was. The Witcher, either of them, feel very small. ME has far better scale, has a better sense of a world.

A world that makes no sense isn't alive.  As of ME3, the ME universe lost all coherence, though even in ME2 you were starting to see the strain from a meta-arc that was not well thought out.

ME already lost all coherence with ME2  where they retconned 1's ending and decided that a bunch of inane daddy issues that have nothing to do with anything was more important than advancing the core plot. ME3 is simply the logical extension of all that.

ME2 was not as self-contradicting as ME3 was. ME2 had disconnections from ME1 but it didn't at least flip settings and plots it has established within the game, though Bioware AGAIN retconnned ME2's endings and settings in ME3. I would say the coherence of the series was completely destoryed in ME3 because ME3 did not only discontiunue previous stories but also it logically defiled itself at every turn.

I'm heavily biased here but I've not spotted single plot flaw in TW2, aside form some choices being rendered meaningless from TW playthrough. I would be happy to listen if someone can point out TW2's plot flaws.

Modifié par IntoTheDarkness, 21 juillet 2013 - 05:05 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...
I'm heavily biased here but I've not spotted single plot flaw in TW2, aside form some choices being rendered meaningless from TW playthrough. I would be happy to listen if someone can point out TW2's plot flaws.

- The Roche Iorveth confrontation in Flotsam did not make sense in a lot of scenarios, and it was extremily cheesy. That and letting the other llive was laughable.
- The  Vipers' assassination attempt on Henselt was very poorly done
- Ves was completely dropped after Act 2

Those are plot flaws I consider major, esp the last one. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 juillet 2013 - 05:18 .

[Blooddrunk1004]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

I'm heavily biased here but I've not spotted single plot flaw in TW2, aside form some choices being rendered meaningless from TW playthrough. I would be happy to listen if someone can point out TW2's plot flaws.

The only thing that doesn't make sense in plot is Roche vs Iorveth scene.
Both of them also have silly excuses about sparing each other, Roche says he can't kill him because his men are closing in, yet he could easily just stab him and run. Iorveth suddenly doesn't care if he kills Roche or not, despite saying how much he hates him before that.

We also don't know what happens to Roche men if you sided with Iorveth in chapter 2.
Did Henselt also hang them and raped Ves?
However those are not huge things for me, all important questions are answered at the end when Geralt confronts Letho.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 21 juillet 2013 - 05:38 .

[IntoTheDarkness]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...
I'm heavily biased here but I've not spotted single plot flaw in TW2, aside form some choices being rendered meaningless from TW playthrough. I would be happy to listen if someone can point out TW2's plot flaws.

- The Roche Iorveth confrontation in Flotsam did not make sense in a lot of scenarios, and it was extremily cheesy. That and letting the other llive was laughable.
- The  Vipers' assassination attempt on Henselt was very poorly done
- Ves was completely dropped after Act 2

Those are plot flaws I consider major, esp the last one. 

1. I agree. I went WTF in that scene, thought rest of the game's awesomeness quicly made me forget it.
2. Could have chosen more viable place for assassination attempt, perhaps?
3. I think ACT 3 suffered from a lack of development time as evident with pre-extended cut volume of ACT 3. But yeah, her absence is especially annoying when you took Roche's side in ACT 2.


Still, TW2, Game of Thrones, and Planescape:Torment are the only RPG games that gave me goose bumps from their storytelling.

Modifié par IntoTheDarkness, 21 juillet 2013 - 05:43 .

[slimgrin]

All they had to do was remove the Roche/Iorveth scene and the story would work fine. Either path you take, Roche or Iorveth would simply narrate a more plausible event. I like to think the writers were high the day they wrote that.

Modifié par slimgrin, 21 juillet 2013 - 05:42 .

[Il Divo]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IntoTheDarkness wrote...
I'm heavily biased here but I've not spotted single plot flaw in TW2, aside form some choices being rendered meaningless from TW playthrough. I would be happy to listen if someone can point out TW2's plot flaws.

- The Roche Iorveth confrontation in Flotsam did not make sense in a lot of scenarios, and it was extremily cheesy. That and letting the other llive was laughable.
- The  Vipers' assassination attempt on Henselt was very poorly done
- Ves was completely dropped after Act 2

Those are plot flaws I consider major, esp the last one. 

Not so much a plothole but replaying Act 1, I don't think they do enough with the fact that Geralt is rumored to be a kingslayer. Yeah, Loredo mentions it at one point, but your first act in Flotsam is to become involved in a public execution by freeing Dandelion/Zoltan. Hell, I would think there would be more resistance to Geralt in that scene.

[Eternal Phoenix]

I never thought much of the Roche vs Iorveth scene. Also am I the only one or did anyone else ever get a instant "kill" by a parry in that scene?

As for Ves. It was disappointing she suddenly vanished but even more so that they reduced her to nothing but a "woman playing soldier" once King Hensalt got his hands on her. I mean she comes running up to Geralt hugging him after that...

I suppose one could form a defense for that scene but they could have done so much more afterwards in Act III with her concerning the Hensalt thing.

[KnightofPhoenix]

IntoTheDarkness wrote...
2. Could have chosen more viable place for assassination attempt, perhaps?

The whole set-up was poorly done. One minute the Royal camp is filled with people, and then the next it's empty. where was Dethmold? Where were the guards?

And then in the flashback, we see Serrit and Auckes massacring a dozen guards right outside Henselt's tent. I am supposed to believe Henselt, and Geralt with his super hearing, couldn't hear that? 

One way this could have been fixed, is to have Dethmold and some of his guards be distracted by showing the Redanian envoy around camp (to show Kaedweni military power, nice swagerring tactic before Loc Muinne), and then have Serrit and Auckes kill the guards in the Royal Camp stealthily. That way no one would hear them and in the comotion of the Redanian envoy's arrival, strike at Henselt.   

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 juillet 2013 - 08:24 .

[IntoTheDarkness]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

- The Roche Iorveth confrontation in Flotsam did not make sense in a lot of scenarios, and it was extremily cheesy. That and letting the other llive was laughable.

I actually thought that scene was some sort of flashback for a minute; then when I realised it wasn't I was even more confused.

IntoTheDarkness wrote...

Still, TW2, Game of Thrones, and Planescape:Torment are the only RPG games that gave me goose bumps from their storytelling.

I'd heard the GoT video game was supposed to be completely terrible; it's actually worth picking up?

Only to enjoy the story, yes. It has one of the best storytelling in video games.

Combat is exploitable, graphics are outdated, and voice actings are sometimes bad. However, if you are an ASOIF fan, it's definately worth playing because the plots were sanctioned by GRRM and is very well told. If you look up reviews most of them will say the story is awesome.

It's also fun to look at the story of GOT season 1 from a different perspectives. You even get to meet some characters from the book and tv show!

[FlyingSquirrel]

I haven't finished TW2 yet - I played TW1 off and on for the first part of the year, finished it about a month or so ago, and have been playing TW2 for a couple weeks now. I would say that if you compare the writing of individual missions and characters, The Witcher franchise might come out a little bit ahead of the Mass Effect franchise.

However, I don't find the overall setup and premise of The Witcher as compelling. Mass Effect is detailed, but it allows you to grasp the general picture - multispecies galactic society with humans as relative newcomers - quickly and clearly. With The Witcher, I sometimes feel like I'm making decisions without really understanding what's at stake. The first game is set in motion by the Salamandra attack on the Witchers, but I didn't feel like I had a clear grasp on who exactly the Salamandra were or why their theft of the Witchers' materials was so important as to be worth everything Geralt goes through in order to track them down. (That, and I just generally prefer near-future sci-fi settings to vaguely medieval sword-and-sorcery fantasy settings.)

A good example is when Triss suggests to Geralt in TW2 that they just leave Flotsam and stop working with Roche. Do they have other obligations and affiliations that would either be solidified or weakened if they leave? Are there conflicts that might require their immediate attention besides looking for the kingslayer? Will they have a better chance at resolving those conflicts depending on whether they intend to leave or stay? And where are those other Witchers that they were with at the start of TW1, and why did they never reconnect with them after completing the Salamandra investigation?

The other difference in ME's favor is that, when presented with a grim situation and a series of bad choices, I like to be allowed to at least *try* to argue for a different approach the way Shepard usually can, even if I sometimes fail. A more Witcher-esque take on the geth and quarians, for example, would probably require Shepard to choose a side in ME3 rather than allowing for peace under certain circumstances.

Some probably see the more ambiguous aspects of The Witcher as being more realistic, but my own view is that fiction shouldn't just reflect the world back at us but should have room for considering better alternatives. I don't really believe that, when presented with a potentially violent conflict between two deeply flawed factions, all you can do is (a) side with one of them and hope to tinker around the edges by occasionally urging the leader to show restraint, or ( throw up your hands and let them kill each other. And yet those seem to be pretty much the extent of Geralt's eventual choices in the Order/Scoi'atel war in TW1.

(Of course, Geralt doesn't have the same stature that Shepard does, so he wouldn't be the best choice to attempt to negotiate a reconciliation anyway, but that's part of what makes playing him a little less rewarding.)